Complex No. 6 - The turtle and the rabbit

[Complex]

Not sure what the goal of ^^^ this is. No offense Complex, but you are mostly stating the obvious. ---

Are you just restating that you "value" your vows to make the point that she must not?

I can't say if that is even true, but I can say that it won't help for you to suggest it.

What do you really want her to know, now? What is it you want to say to her?



Well, that is a very good question. I want her to understand me and the works of my soul too. Because there is so much more to it than she might think. I am a person with a vision, but struggle to follow through, because I never felt I have a reason to, never had enough energy. But I came to humongous realizations what love means, what she means to me, what live means, what being myself means and what it means to let her be herself and support her. I am more motivated than ever to build a great life. I understand her better than ever ever before. I just maybe cannot express myself well enough.
"Simplified": I want her to see and understand that our dreams and hopes and fears match greatly. That we are very similar human beings and that I understand her, want to support us and her and let her be herself so she can thrive and grow as a person while I will do the same and we can be the strong couple and team we both desire.


But again, it's NOT words she needs from you. It is new/different behavior.

Otherwise, she has No reason to believe that marriage to you now, would be any better or different than before.

And before, was NOT enough for her so she wanted out (AND you now admit it was not a deep marriage for you either.)

So you both want a deeper marriage now. She does not believe you are capable of that with her.

So what are you DOING (not just saying) that would show her - you/marriage can be deeper?

Because no one returns to marriage they left, unless they believe it can be better/different than before.


Now this also is not easy to answer. I do a lot of things, mostly for myself right now. Which means I am building myself a life and getting rid of the dependency I have on her. To release her from the pressure of that. That we can also have an equal level of education and success at some point. Something that will connect us in the very long term. Because we both have the same idea. We want to do GOOD things, help people. I want to teach, I have the idea of going abroad one day, do some third world development volunteer work. This is one of her dreams too as a nurse. I event want to build a foundation one day, helping children in poor countries.
OK I got side tracked, so
a) I loosen myself from dependency, strengthen myself so I can also be a strong partner
b) I am listening and validating much better, sincerely
c) I let her be herself more

I don't really know what else I could do in my position. Any attempt of connecting to her through daily communication or even many of my actions are still seen as pursuing.
And my career steps are slow, this isn't happening fast and she wants to break lose, being able to breathe again. I can see how draining it is for her.
Suggestions?

Another thing: We switch bedrooms every week, so it's fair, because the guest bed isn't as comfy. She is very stressed by the living situation (without judging if that is the right thing or not, because many here would say that she is free to leave if she is stressed out right? but it is not that black and white as we discovered). So I got a mattress topper for the guest bed and it's really comfy now and I told her yesterday I will give the living situation a thought if I might just stay in my office room. So tomorrow I wanted to take a step towards her and suggest some improvements in our situation, splitting rooms, maybe moving some cloths so I don't need to walk in the other room all the time etc. I feel good about the decision. It's mature and takes the high road and more beneficial than harming. What do you think?

[Complex]

So my therapist told me I am making a lot of progress very fast. I agree.

Interaction with W is still light and more friendly, even after she told me I should move out and I said I won't...
So back to where we were before. I keep doing my thing. Stay busy. Yesterday I showered put some cologne on and went out for a bit meeting with a friend on a green beer while W was watching TV on the couch.
Felt good. I'm in a bit of a moral struggle. I started looking more at other women. Maybe just to see what's out there..and I didn't have sex in 3-4 months. I imagine R's with other women..how it could be,...I just feel like I want to be admired and loved for who I am..., but I still didn't give up hope. Is that morally ok? I catch myself and feel like it's alright but I want to keep focusing on myself and the promise I made. I thought I'll only get married ONCE in my life, that's what I believed in, at least for myself.
I hope 25yr is coming back one of these days to answer my remaining questions. It was humongously helpful of her what she wrote and I didn't feel criticized at all, it was very constructive.

Still need to fulfill some more GAL stuff like volunteering and church but I'm just so dead tired today and yesterday from working out so hard and then working and school all day ...I'll take a well deserved nap now and head back to work after

[Starsky309]

I think those are very natural feelings, Complex. I sure went thru them when I was in my sitch. We're human.


Starsky

[alpha99]

Hi Complex,

I think looking around at what it out there female wise is perfectly natural. Maybe it is a sign that you although you want things to work out, if they don't you are coming to terms that one day there might have to be someone else for you. Admittedly I have been doing the same, looking at people I pass by and weighing up in my head if I liked them or not, what a R would be like etc.

Of course the key thing is whether or not you intend to act on these new feelings or urges. Do you? Are you just speculating on what it might be like or are you giving it serious consideration that you would maybe want to begin looking at other women? I don't think there is a right or wrong answer there, just more of a signpost as to where you're at and what you should be focusing your energies on.

I may be wrong but from the comments you wrote about making a promise it seems that you are not at the 'moving on' stage at the moment. If that is the case I would not advise entering into another R if that's going to make any future reconciliation more complicated/impossible.

[Joe46]

I have found myself looking at other women also!! I think it is because I am now being ignored by my spouse pretty much. I also think about what it would be like. I also think I am looking to see if they are looking at me. I am alot older than I was before W and I met. I noticed the women looking at me back than. Guess I want to see if they still would if I end up single again. Sounds kinda funny! I think I also want to feel wanted and wonder what it would be like in a different relationship.

[Complex]

Sounds like everyone is experiencing the same. I guess it part of the healing process. It helps me to see there is something else out there.
But he'll no I am not ready for dating, the healing process will take so much longer until I feel ready for something serious. I just have desires, but I don't act upon them. It feels good tho to be acknowledged by the other gender.

Besides showing consistency, which I think is most important in my sitch right now and also for myself, what is there I can do to show W that I understand her feelings and understand the "simplified" statement I made when I answered 25yr (I do listen and validate but I don't really ask how she is doing etc.)?
I actually feel like I'm DB pretty well, taking good care of myself.
I just find it so important in this phase to stay true to myself and that I'm not too hard on myself.

[Complex]

Good GAL day yesterday. I briefly saw W at night, made myself nice and ready and went out..to the casino with a friend, which I didn't tell w..and I didn't get back before midnight.

She texted me that it's her dads birthday on Saturday and they have dinner at her grandmas...and that she wanted to "extend the invitation" and I can come if I want, "no obligation" tho.
Should I go? I kind of want to but it'll be awkward kind of. I think W doesn't even know that her family knows about OM by the way, not that it makes a real difference in this occasion. Weird that W invited me, not her dad himself.
I feel like I should go, be upbeat and nice to her family. I miss them anyway.

[twinmom]

I think a reply of, "I would like that but let's meet there because I have plans later in the evening" and then skip out right after singing/cake....

That way it's about the birthday NOT spending time with wife AND you get to be mysterious.

[Starsky309]

I think a reply of, "I would like that but let's meet there because I have plans later in the evening" and then skip out right after singing/cake....

That way it's about the birthday NOT spending time with wife AND you get to be mysterious.

I love this idea ^^^ !!!

[Complex]

Dinner cancelled. Grandma doesn't feel well. Postponed.

I just scheduled my last session with my DB coach due to a text conversation with W. She accidentally sent a text to me instead of a friend of hers, saying she is super emotional right now, wants to cry, because she just had a conversation with a coworker that I don't want to move out and it's annoying her. Then she was like "oops wrong person, sorry"

I just replied "sorry you are feeling down".
Then we had a little discussion via text, not my favorite way of communication but I had to set some boundaries.
This was a crucial conversation to the extend that it will come up more often from now on and I think I have to protect myself and my position and take the high road. Would be great if someone could evaluate this if I presented kyself ok, because W still thinks I act like a child, although I clearly drew some lines there:

W: we need separate homes. What do you say? We are breaking up and we can't live like this forever.
M: Maybe not forever, I'm just saying that I am staying in the home that's also mine. You are free to do what you want. I'm sorry it's affecting you negatively and that you are emotional
W: And you say you don't want to stand in my way but you are. So what is keeping you from moving out? Money? I'll give you money.
M: This is not my idea and I am not going to do any actions towards a divorce myself. Please respect that
W: so I have to force you and I'll end up hating you for it. I keep giving you time but not anymore.
M: I'm sorry if you feel that way that you will hate me.
W: you are living in denial and won't leave, it's pathetic. We have no marriage. I won't be nice anymore
M: I appreciate you are working with me, giving me the opportunity to stay
I am not in denial. Denial means I don't realize what you want but I do but I have my own believes, I am a free human being.
W: you are blocking me from moving forward. That's not love. It's called being selfish
M: Not wanting a D is not selfish. I have my own values
W: ok then let's live like this forever, you make no sense. You are fkn ridiculous, is it your value to stay in an unhappy marriage or are you just afraid of walking away from sth that isn't right?
M: I know you and I know me and I believe in marriage and we had a great time together. I am ready to work on a deeper relationship. I want one too.
But that's MY believe
W: you can't force me. For the last time: I don't want this! If you want to force someone to be married buy a slave.
M: I'm sorry to hear that but I'm not going to force you to do anything
W: in your head you think if you stick around it'll all be good but that's not realistic!
M: I do not think that
W: if you don't want to move out the police will, is that what you want (remember the grant deed we signed says it is my wife's property, which kind of screws me over legally on this, but my money is in here too and we didn't even sign that intentionally)
M: I'm moving on with or without you but I believe in marriage. I do not want to fight, I respect your feelings but please respect mine too. What's right for you might not be right for me.
W: yes breakups suck. But I'm not staying married to you because it's better for you. It's my life too.
M: m sticking with my personal boundaries but I don't want to take advantage of you financially. I only wanted to get married once in my life.
W: things don't always turn out the way we want. That's live. Deal with it, you are acting like a child.
M: I took a vow and I'm sticking with it. I feel good about it. I am doing the right thing.
But I will not stand in your way. Please respect though that I won't take any actions my own towards my own divorce. That's not acting like a child, it's standing for something. I'm sorry if this sounds contradictory to how I acted last year in our marriage. I didn't live up to it.