Yeah, the control switch was flipped. Like I said before, I always saw the word 'control' negatively but I see in all of our sitches it's good intentions just a mismatch of how its received. --------------
Carers said D4 not doing too good this morning, she was screaming at W during drop off and looked very, very tired. She said W looked overwhelmed also. No my thing to worry about W, but with D4 screaming she hardly ever does that; it can't be a fantastic week for them. Nothing I can do about it....I'm back from my trip now and that was my main concern. -----------------
So GAL report. Went out with coworkers while we were on our trip. Had a good time, good team bonding. I experimented a little at the bar with holding eye contact with a girl. She looked back, gave a little smile and then started talking to her friend. Kept looking over at each other every couple minutes. Saw her turn down some other guy that approached her. Got to the point that I think I could have went over to talk with her. However, MCS is nowhere near ready for that. But it was a good feeling and boost to self esteem.
Realized a little later that during this time, I was primarily talking to one of my coworkers that is attractive, so I'm sure from the outside it probably looked like she was 'interested in me' and it was a little competition from this other girl at the bar. I joked with my co-worker that she should be my Wing-Women.
All in all, a fun night. We all had a good time and laughed a lot.
Last edited by MCS; 03/12/1512:00 AM.
M:36 W:37 T: 15 M:11 S6 D5 BD: 8/10/14 IDLY: 8/12/14 S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids) D Mentioned: 10/15/14 Confronted about OM: 10/15/14 EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13 She filed: 8/15 (not final)
At my parents house this weekend with the kids. My mom had some surgery. Let W knew a couple weeks ago I was making the trip and the reason why, no asking before or a response on how things went, not like I expected anything.
Yesterday, W hit me with an email about the kids, nothing new. I saw her tone has changed back to cold and callous, no intro or signature, terse wording. We had a pretty big falling out last week based on trying to exchange kids. I was calm on this convo, but said some stuff that I can tell definitely stung, based on her responses. It wasn't anything angrily negative, but I can tell W knows I'm onto her struggles. She hit me back with some outlandish stuff.
So yesterday, I replied back to email, just reminding her I was planning on taking the kids on trip this weekend and all. I'm numb with her trying to get me spun up in front of her. I see I'm a lot more calm and collected. I think she's starting to see that I'm getting better and she's getting worse.
I'm worried about her, from an emotional state. I thought since our communications were getting better that her emotional state was improving, but we got hit back about 10 steps. I talked to MC early last week and he had some good words, but it's not comforting my general concern for her well being. He was a little upset because he said he could see the progress. I know it's set me back emotionally and I realize there's nothing I can do.
I made an appt with my L for May 1. I think that's my personal timeline to see if things get better. We have a year period before we can file (Aug. 13th) but I think if things aren't better, I'm going to put in formal separation papers. I really don't want to because W and I can't talk about anything and how I want to craft custody right now based on that will get W very mad. Its what I think is best for the kids at the moment and fair for them in what they need, but hopefully it will change in the next couple months.
Basically I laid it out to W last week, she needs to get healthy for the kids. She looked at me and (mind reading) I could tell she knew exactly what I meant. Her response to me right there confirmed it and she sent me something the next day that she's a d@mn good mother and then proceeded to tell me that this is all my fault.
I see that while I got upset on little things before, I'm no longer scared to analyze and hold strong on things I feel are best for the kids, even if it sends so much discord my way. I've accepted our M is dead, and no longer working to 'save' that by just going along with threats.
Emotionally, MCS is struggling still to let go, but I'm stronger and not nearly as afraid of the future.
Last edited by MCS; 03/15/1505:14 AM.
M:36 W:37 T: 15 M:11 S6 D5 BD: 8/10/14 IDLY: 8/12/14 S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids) D Mentioned: 10/15/14 Confronted about OM: 10/15/14 EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13 She filed: 8/15 (not final)
Oh, forgot to say. At my parents house, W had made a 'family book' of us each XMas to give to all our parents. D4 decided to sit down with me and go through the last 5 years of pictures in the books. Toughest thing I've done in a while. We were having a good time, family trips, laughing, spending time together....we were a happy family....what happened? It's like there was a cancer growing and I didn't see it at all.
I got through about 3 books and my dad saw how much it was affecting me, but I was holding strong for D4. He just said to her, "D4, how about you finish looking through those yourself." Another future step in the journey, reconcile the memories back to being seen for the goodness and not the dark clouds that were looming that I didn't see at all.
Last edited by MCS; 03/15/1505:21 AM.
M:36 W:37 T: 15 M:11 S6 D5 BD: 8/10/14 IDLY: 8/12/14 S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids) D Mentioned: 10/15/14 Confronted about OM: 10/15/14 EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13 She filed: 8/15 (not final)
Hey MCS, sorry its been a while since Ive checked in- lots of stuff on my mind so I apologize for being selfish. Sounds like both of our sitch's kinda suck right now but I am glad you are getting stronger.
Quite honestly Im not sure if you telling W that she needs to get better was the best thing for you to say. It sounds...accusational? Idk if thats the right word, but something like oh I'm doing fine, YOU need to get better. Maybe something like "Hey W, Im concerned for you because you don't look healthy and I am worried about it." Is that too soft? Reason I say that is because my W as you know is also very unhealthy, losing 30+lbs, etc etc. So I usually just say hey I am worried about you, makes it sound more...caring?
Don't mind her threats. We both know that this is what they do. When they're cornered or feel scared, they threaten us. It'll pass.
Ill check back in soon, keep your head up.
BTW, good on your dad for telling D4 to look at photos on her own, there is no way I could have looked through that. Thinking about you bud.
ME: 28 W: 24 M: 2.5yrs T: 5yrs BD: 22 SEP 14 W Leaves: 5 OCT 14
Oh, one more thing. I think its weird that a lot of people, LBH in particular, are trying to flirt or get attention of women. Im not sure if thats good or bad...i find myself wanting that lately too..just like ANY WOMAN...FLIRT WITH ME, MAKE ME FEEL WANTED...but then I realize...youre not my W..and I go sob in the truck =(
What do you think...should we even be entertaining the idea of flirting? Even if its just for fun? Isn't that how it all starts??? idk MCS...i really don't know.
ME: 28 W: 24 M: 2.5yrs T: 5yrs BD: 22 SEP 14 W Leaves: 5 OCT 14
Hey MCS, sorry its been a while since Ive checked in- lots of stuff on my mind so I apologize for being selfish. Sounds like both of our sitch's kinda suck right now but I am glad you are getting stronger.
No problem, I actually think its good to ebb and flow on the boards here, I've had my share over the last couple weeks of laying low. Sometimes, we all need to just let the sitch stew for a little in our minds.
Originally Posted By: TLEE86
Quite honestly Im not sure if you telling W that she needs to get better was the best thing for you to say. It sounds...accusational? Idk if thats the right word, but something like oh I'm doing fine, YOU need to get better. Maybe something like "Hey W, Im concerned for you because you don't look healthy and I am worried about it." Is that too soft? Reason I say that is because my W as you know is also very unhealthy, losing 30+lbs, etc etc. So I usually just say hey I am worried about you, makes it sound more...caring?
Yeah, it probably did sound that way. Here's the thing (enter 'controlling, mind reading mode') W has always avoided emotionally difficult topics (shocker.) I look back at our R (15 years of it) and I see that I took the lead in addressing these things. Its a BIG part of how we got here and why I was so blindsided. So, realizing this, I've tried mightily to let her do her thing, especially in the hopes that our M would get R'd. Last week though, she showed the extreme pain and confusion that she's going through. At that point, when I indirectly asked her about whom's she's sharing it with I saw that's she's keeping it all inside still and 6 month's later still hiding behind her lies which seem to be destroying her (another past trait that I see surfacing)
Anyway I hate to sound this way, but it 'feels' like even after 6 months of her leaving, I'm still the closest person to her emotionally. That's scary, but also I think the reason she doesn't want to be around me. She wants to tuck this all away. That's her prerogative, except when it comes to the kids. I would be lying if I said that I don't worry about the kids when their with her. It got better for a while, but I see the same things from earlier on in the sitch starting to pop back up.
So, I agree it was a little direct from me and it may make her rebel more. When she looked at me, and especially fired right back "IC said I'm just fine," I know she knows what I'm talking about. However, our sitch in a weird place of me taking the lead again
This is the same as when I confronted about OM and instead of me getting peeved; gave her the steps to get out of it. She started to, my W started to emerge and then something happened (addiction kicked back in?!?) that made her shut down again.
None of this is good for the sitch, but I'm worried about her. I need to let go, but part of me is wondering why my heart is not going cold to her, no matter how hard she tries. I wrote on your thread about 'faith' and its interesting, right now I 'feel' like I'm just where I need to be give all of the stuff going on around me. I wish I could see the outcome, but I guess I've hit a balance of pain and compassion. There has to be a reason that I'm still in it. I just don't know why...
Originally Posted By: TLEE86
Don't mind her threats. We both know that this is what they do. When they're cornered or feel scared, they threaten us. It'll pass.
Yeah, I've let most of them roll off me, but her latest are questioning my core character and those are hard to take and not get defensive and/or angry.
Last edited by MCS; 03/16/1502:29 AM.
M:36 W:37 T: 15 M:11 S6 D5 BD: 8/10/14 IDLY: 8/12/14 S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids) D Mentioned: 10/15/14 Confronted about OM: 10/15/14 EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13 She filed: 8/15 (not final)
Oh, one more thing. I think its weird that a lot of people, LBH in particular, are trying to flirt or get attention of women. Im not sure if thats good or bad...i find myself wanting that lately too..just like ANY WOMAN...FLIRT WITH ME, MAKE ME FEEL WANTED...but then I realize...youre not my W..and I go sob in the truck =(
What do you think...should we even be entertaining the idea of flirting? Even if its just for fun? Isn't that how it all starts??? idk MCS...i really don't know.
So, I'm gonna have a three-peat of religious posts.
I'm still married, she's still my W. She won't say that, but its how I feel. I still don't know how to 'divorce' in my head my covenant, except for aligning it with 'legal' divorce.
So, when it comes to flirting; I pretty much am just experimenting. I said that I could have walked up to that girl, but I know that I wouldn't.
As I go through this, I see it like when I removed my ring. I experimented one weekend and was a mess. I was reacting to a blow-up from her, was mad, etc. About 4 weeks later, one day I slipped it off; put it on my dresser and went forward with my day. I was initially forcing it and then without even realizing it, I was ready just a little bit later.
This is where I see that if we 'feel' we are forcing something. We probably are (except GAL) and shouldn't be doing it. It will take some practice and as long as we are looking 'up' when we have questions; He doesn't always answer right away, but he'll give us what we need, when we need it.
For me, I see that with whatever the next R would be (wife or not,) if I actively try to pursue it; I'm probably not going to get what I need. But I have faith that whatever I'm meant to do will be put in my path at the right time and right circumstance.
Actually, to wander my thoughts a little. This is one way I gained some compassion for the sitch my W is in. Bad decisions aside; if she was feeling how I'm feeling right now and this OM entered her life and everything seemed to 'click' and also make her feel better about herself; I could see that she could convince herself that this is the path she 'should' be on. She did tell me when she was leaving that "He's giving her the strength to do this" so something like that had to be going through her mind. IDK, it's the toughest thing to separate the voice we want to hear with the voice that we need to hear.
I do feel ya, when you are saying about getting some attention. I caught myself a few weeks ago feeling just that way....everyone was being 'evaluated' in my mind. Like most things, for me it seems to have died down a bit. Most people I talk about my sitch to are women, so that helps a little. However, there's 'other' things that I desire.......but yeah..... That's where the paragraphs above come into play. I'll know when I'm ready for that. For me, I just try joking about it right now with my close friends.
Last edited by MCS; 03/16/1502:54 AM.
M:36 W:37 T: 15 M:11 S6 D5 BD: 8/10/14 IDLY: 8/12/14 S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids) D Mentioned: 10/15/14 Confronted about OM: 10/15/14 EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13 She filed: 8/15 (not final)
Oh, one more thing. I think its weird that a lot of people, LBH in particular, are trying to flirt or get attention of women. Im not sure if thats good or bad...i find myself wanting that lately too..just like ANY WOMAN...FLIRT WITH ME, MAKE ME FEEL WANTED...but then I realize...youre not my W..and I go sob in the truck =( What do you think...should we even be entertaining the idea of flirting? Even if its just for fun? Isn't that how it all starts??? idk MCS...i really don't know.
I'm in the crowd of LBH who are experimenting with flirting and have even been advocating it on other sitches. It came from my IC who's observing that I hang on to a person who has unequivocally withdrawn her love from me to give it to someone else. Why is it that I find all sorts of excuses to say that I'll go back to her, that I need to be faithful to her? He's making me think about my hidden reasons and one of them is a fear of women, of rejection. I need to test whether I want to reconcile with my WAW because I lack confidence with other women or only because I truly love her.
The fact is that even if I'm advocating it, I've been very bad at flirting and haven't done it in weeks. I just spent a week-end single without any flirting. I realize that I avoid situations where it might happen because I'm afraid. I just don't know what to say or do. This, to me, is something important to think about amongst the reasons why I want to reconcile. NMMNG is another inspiration, reminding us that we live in a world of abundance, while Nice Guys perceive it as a world of shortages.
TLEE86, I think this may apply to you especially as you find your WAW so attractive and probably doubt that you'll ever do as well, so you shouldn't let her go. This is your insecurities, not true love. Realize that beyond her beauty and inner glow, she's also the person who's giving you all this pain and it should count in your assessment of her as a life partner. Don't think of flirting as a way to find validation, but as a way to get some perspective on your true motivations and feelings.
I'll be blunt: another reason why I flirt is that I hardly see myself going back with WAW without having had my fun too (yes, sex). WAW left with another man and a few weeks or months later, moved in with him. Pardon me if I'm crude, but I just know that they had intense and amazing sex for months, like any new, loving relationships do. I can't bear the thought of her coming back and me having waited on the side like a good boy while she had a romantic/sex vacation. Look around at the anger of LBH at the unfairness of their sitches (Maybell, Foolish): it is a very powerful and destructive feeling. Remaining faithful during this period will keep my resentment too high for a long lasting reconciliation. That's my theory. In 2009 when she cheated on my (slept twice with a colleague), she offered me to have a "pass" and I turned it down because I didn't want it and I didn't want to threaten our relationship with unexpected reactions. So it's not like I crave to sleep with other women, but the circumstances are what they are.
Finally, there's no shame in acknowledging that we enjoy and need sex. I was ML 1-2 times a week up until BD and now it's been nothing for six month. Sex is not just a fun thing, like bowling, it's a very strong human drive. In polite society, we all pretend it's a little fun on the side and we don't really mind having it or not, but the fact is that it's a drive that we ignore at our own risks. I know it's disruptive in my life in a way that sex hasn't been in some 12-15 years.
M39 D6 D3 (at S) S 2014-09 D 2016-09
"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
Anyway I hate to sound this way, but it 'feels' like even after 6 months of her leaving, I'm still the closest person to her emotionally. That's scary, but also I think the reason she doesn't want to be around me. She wants to tuck this all away. That's her prerogative, except when it comes to the kids. I would be lying if I said that I don't worry about the kids when their with her. It got better for a while, but I see the same things from earlier on in the sitch starting to pop back up.
This is the same as when I confronted about OM and instead of me getting peeved; gave her the steps to get out of it. She started to, my W started to emerge and then something happened (addiction kicked back in?!?) that made her shut down again.
Oh man brother can I identify with you. Its just so strange how we THINK that they are coming back to be the person we knew, and all of a sudden something triggers them to duck and hide and all of a sudden theire back in their hole scared again and lost in the fog. I really don't know what to say about it, other than ask yourself, what did you do to make her "emerge" again, what were you doing or not doing to make W seem like she's herself again? This is something that I ask myself constantly. Problem is, I cant identify one specific thing, so its a build up of things that you MCS changed to make W notice. Not one single act. So again, what exactly did you do?
Originally Posted By: MCS
Actually, to wander my thoughts a little. This is one way I gained some compassion for the sitch my W is in. Bad decisions aside; if she was feeling how I'm feeling right now and this OM entered her life and everything seemed to 'click' and also make her feel better about herself; I could see that she could convince herself that this is the path she 'should' be on. She did tell me when she was leaving that "He's giving her the strength to do this" so something like that had to be going through her mind. IDK, it's the toughest thing to separate the voice we want to hear with the voice that we need to hear.
Yea, I hear you man. This is what they do, its nothing new, but it continues to surprise us. My W told me today that she needs to "exhaust all options" to "make it on her own" before she can "swallow her pride" and come back this way. I don't even know how to take that besides Im still plan B and she's stuck on the path she's on. Point I'm trying to make is, OM coupled with how WAWs are already thinking, give them the strength and the "determination?" to convince themselves that this is whast best. We have both noticed that our WAWs are unhealthy, mentally, physically etc. But yet they continue to do this because they THINK this is right. We just have to let them run their coufrse, and again, ask ourselves, what are we doing that is responding well to them?
-----
Mozza, thank you for your post- its completely true. As T2 once told me, and alot of you, i put W on a pedestal because she is the way she is, and I truly don't believe i can do better. But I have to understand, I think we all do, that like you said, this same person that is on a pedestal, is the one causing all this hurt. So do they really deserve to be up there right now? I think we know the answer....
As far as experimenting/fliritng, i think its normal and quite honestly, we need a self esteem boost because we are all crushed right now. idk if thats the right mind set but i think its necessary...
MCS? What do you think?
ME: 28 W: 24 M: 2.5yrs T: 5yrs BD: 22 SEP 14 W Leaves: 5 OCT 14
As far as flirting, the self esteem boost is nice, but I think a good portion of it is just getting noticed and get the heart moving a little faster. It's so weird for me, because I see that I'm so comfortable with who I am (both before and now) that I really feel I dont 'need' the companionship, but am yearning for some of the other things that come with being in a R.
However, I can't shake this feeling to 'rescue' her though and I think, while its a good trait to have, something I need to work through. My IC kind of said something to this affect, but I don't know what it would look like with reducing that personality trait. A one night stand? A trophy GF? A casual friend w/ benefits? I see these things and they just don't seem appealing, I feel like I want a long term R right away, but is that the right thing? IDK, I think that's part of the reason that I'm a little scared to take that step of going beyond looks in a bar. Also, like I said, I'm still married.
-------- As far as what has made W come out of her shell a little, it's another thing I haven't put my finger on. I think it has more to do with OM and other people than it does with me. When I confronted her about OM, I know she was unsure about really what my intentions are. She then shut down when she outright lied to me (a couple times) and I called her on it. Recently, I'm not sure what had happened, maybe I stopped showing I wanted to work on the R? I'm really not sure and then this recent flare up was out of the blue again. She's been picking up and dropping off at the house since Oct., why now are we back to her not wanting to?
So reading about your W, I agree it does seem like you're plan B right now, but at least she's identified that she needs to work through things and then reassess. Not the light in the dark, but its better than my W who still thinks I'm causing her to be unhappy, somehow. I think for you, while being second must really stink, she's a) being honest with you, b) realizes she needs to do work on herself and c) isn't giving a ringing endorsement that her 'new' life is exactly what she wants.
I see our W's similar but different. For you, I think your W is trying to 'find' herself and see where she belongs. For me, I see that my W has years and years of issues that she's never really dealt with from her childhood that overcame her as she got to the point that a trigger got her to see something different.
For me, it's been an interesting week. I'm starting to have these thoughts in my head that maybe I don't want her back if this is how she actually is. Like I said, she's exhibited these traits in somewhat of a healthy balance throughout our M, and I'm not quite sure I could deal with anything like this in the future. I can say, I'm at the point that I about 90% realize there was nothing I could have done to prevent this from happening.
M:36 W:37 T: 15 M:11 S6 D5 BD: 8/10/14 IDLY: 8/12/14 S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids) D Mentioned: 10/15/14 Confronted about OM: 10/15/14 EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13 She filed: 8/15 (not final)
