In both mine and z case we both talked of how wonderful our h were and neither could see the ow nor the abuse. We defended and made excuses. We both refused nc, for months in my case 4 and allowed plenty of cake eating.
I had accepted the total blame and for a long time that total gulit. For a long time I had been conditioned to see myself and me needs as invisable. In fact I bought so totally into that I still feel suprised and unable to say thanks, when others compliment me. It sticks and I can find a dozen ways to brush it off.
Last night a casual aquaintence said hello I was unfocused and almost flaked on saying so thing as simple as hello. One of h major criticisms, but h then took that to another level and critiqued your whole performance to be bad and catastrophised it into a huge deal by transferring his spinning onto you. That shows some truth to their spew, but how the level huge it ends in your head.
Abuse comes in cycles. Up and down. It's often bulit upon, veiled threats become hitting. Punishment and statements of punishments are a big red flag.
Early on when I stated I had a need to have h not go on a trip at a particular time because I felt I needed support. H stated "how I was selfish ruining ss holiday, how ss need for holiday was far greater than my need to feel safe and loved. How to be a nice person they needed to go on the trip which I needed to give my blessing" blah blah Later when I was upset and got a little angry because I talked of my needs not being met via phone, h returned home on the appointed day, stating I was coming home Wednesday but because you were angry and nasty by phone I punished you by staying away. When I was going to come home early.
See the dynamic? I asked for need, then there were great excuses why and huge negiations over it making me think I might get a need met, but al, the while its manipulation to get to the end result of h stating after h got his trip. You were nasty I will deprive you your need and gloat to your face I didn't meet it.
This leads the punished to feel lousy and want to stand up, then abuser gets the fight they want because they have you in an emotional place. They can then put some more blame as "you started it" not their holding out pa on what you asked for. They hide behind I could change my mind, I'm confused, conflicted. Untill what you need is irrelevant.
Then once it's irrelevant you say well it's past now anyways, and then the excuses start on both sides. They usually say I didn't know it was that important, or that I was expected to consider your needs as that's not what we agreed to. Or your just disagreeable because you emtionally weak and cannot get your self together because your a flake.
I hope that helps with specific example of how pa abuse cycles start.
My take on my h and his nc stance and your wife of no engagement is they know how they started the a and if they allow you In its a road leading back in. My h I think is also all about control, he feels total in control if he doesn't answer a call or a text.
M 46 h54 Both married before T 11y Bd 2/14 I must see where ow leads! Ms 18 hs 26
Thanks for answering my questions. I totally get when you say that it is a hard spot you are in. So, in my opinion, you are doing what is right for you at this moment.
I posted a comment on Toots page today that is about a friend that his wife cheated on him, left him heart broken, then they D and she moved to another state. During the first year they had some contact and then it became very minimal and there were no kids involved.
So, she reappear from the ashes, they start talking and somehow they agreed to go into MC to help them to get back together.
He loves her till this day and she told him that she still loves him and that she made a huge mistake, that she was confused in her life and most of what happen had anything to do with him, but with herself.
So, if would say, I thought that they were done for good, forever, and yet here they are, trying to get back together even after the divorce.
I applaud you for being strong enough to stand for yourself and your life. I applaud you for making a lot of effort to be a good father for your little ones. I applaud you for the work you are putting on yourself to became a better person. I applaud you for fighting for family values.
We are not perfect in any meaning of the word, but we are in a direction to learn from our mistakes and be better and this is part of our character. That's why we are here. Maybe we lost our direction on the dance floor, but we are back in class to get our balance back.
While our Ss are still holding grudge, or simple afraid of facing the wrong doing that is fulfilling their lives right now. The way a coward show their strength is attacking first and not leaving any room around them. It makes them to feel in control of themselves and the situation.
The lies beneath the cold cover is something that mold your path, an suffocate you somewhere in time.
Be strong Jim, you are doing the right thing and if not with your W, there may be someone else that will share a more special Jim, the one that learned a lot about love, R.
Hope you are having a good day.
(((((((J))))))))
*** Bond, blue eyes, clean face and looking young. Oh mine, now I wish I was at least a decade younger.
Now the little ones are tucked up in bed and im waiting for my dinner to cook i thought i'd post an update because and......
wait for it.............
This week there was actual interaction!!!!!!!!!
I know i was surprised to.
now before anyone gets carried away its not that exciting, in fact its probably somewhere on the boring side of mundane but it was different none the less - i mean there was conversation and everything. I'm documenting it more because its different than because its meaningful.
So monday morning at about 05:40 i get a text asking if i can pickup the kids from XWs house and get them ready for nursery as she was up all night with food poisoning. I reply 'of course' and asked if she needed me to get her anything, she said no.
a couple of other basic texts back and forward, and a brief conversation about whats made her ill when i collect the kids.
Monday afternoon, D3s nursery rings to say she needs picking up because shes been ill. I'm in the middle of presenting a load of stuff at work and so ring XW to see if she is up to it, she says not really but she will.
I did say i would leave work to do it but XW says its ok, but can S2 stay at my house. So I cancel my evening plans, (I did mention this in passing) and S2 stays with me - hes fine but a little confused.
a couple of texts back and forth about how XW and D3 are doing on the tuesday. when i collect D3 from XWs house that evening i ask hows shes feeling and we just chat a little bit (maybe 3 minutes)
Thursday, we get told about D3s school place so a brief text exchange about that and i get a thank you for sorting things and for telling her about it straight away.
Today, collected the kids and the whole handover was chatty and positive with generic salutations like 'Hi' and 'Have a good weekend'. maybe 5 minutes and idle meaningless chit chat through out.
If you've followed my situation this is all new as XW has barely been able to look at me let alone speak to me since BD. it represents a slight momentary reduction in her fortifications but I wouldnt read anymore into it than that, it was definitely in vaguely aquainted neighbour territory rather than anything more than that.
So anyways now i have the kids for the weekend (and i've had S2 3 of the last 4 nights as well) and its supposed to be sunny so maybe some time in the garden.
Other than that GAL plans last weekend were good apart from the cancellation on monday but i got extra time with S2 which definitely is a good trade off.
Somehow i've really strained my hamstring (it seriously hurts to drive) and so thats means ive got to cancel some other plans, but so be it.
Still it means i can now catch up on a couple of box sets
And my dinner is now ready. It smells properly delicious.
Both mid 30s, 2 young kids BD 7sep14 XW moved on long ago, now living with OM1 D paperwork in progress
Hi Jim - I knew it!! I was sure your W couldn't maintain almost zero interaction indefinitely. And whilst you say it is pretty mundane - it's certainly a change.
It will be interesting to see if it continues. Either the wall may go back up, or this may become a new way of interacting with each other. I hope it's the latter.
I wonder whether her being ill, and you being so willing to help when she needed help, was a contributing factor? Who knows. But I'm glad there's been a shift, and it's nicer for everyone if things are on a more 'normal' footing - with passing the time of day convos at pick up and so on.
Sorry to hear about your leg though - hope it's all better soon. And have a good weekend. :-)
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
From outside it seems that this OM does nothing for her. I understand that the kids are hers but if she was ill, he could at least handle the daycare stuff.
Yet she asked you. And the Universe works wonderfully when it comes to make the puzzle pieces to set in the right place.
It may sound mundane what just happen, but in a way she was caught in a situation to need your help and she sure tough about her options before asking you.
Another thing is that she was also looking for sympathy. She is ill and she wants you to know that.
Today, I went to this parenting class dictated by the court. One of the subjects was that we need to be very careful when engaging in another R. They pinpoint that the second M, R is largely affected by D, and most likely for the ones that get out of one R and jump into another right away. People do that without working the issues in themselves and their old R, and it is like poison for the new R.
You never know when the sand castle is falling. When things are new, they look great. No one is throwing up all night or with a brutal diarrhea and stomach pain. When this happen, then life happen and the real people get their masks off.
That is when the new R start the test of survival. The only problem is that it's built on sand and won't have much to hold on to.
Well, I guess that's why this whole DBing is to be seem as a Marathon. And the book says over and over to be patient, patient and more patient.
Like you said it could be nothing, but it is a start. She can count on you, you were the one she shared the real M, real Life. It was probably easier to run to you telling she was sick then feel like a problem to someone else.
Stay strong and give the little ones a lot of hugs and kisses. This age go by fast and they don't want so many hugs and kisses anymore. You may see a lot yet to come Jim!
Have a lovely weekend. Will think about London, my S17 loved it.
The kids have gone back and there was again some interaction. Although it was far less chatty and much more business like but having said that i think i was a bit disinterested.
we did talk about avfew kid related things and i said i would email her with a few changes i'd like to request to the schedule and got a 'well you can ask' response then she got in the car without another word.
so interaction polite enough but certainly not friendly.
Other news - so last night after a bit more thought on things I decide to register on a dating site. I've been feeling for a while now that the only reason I wasnt doing anything like that was because of some mixture of a miniscule hope that my situation might turn around and fear about what it might mean (genuinely no clue what im doing in the dating world).
I feel that if im if my focus is truly on me and my life then i shouldnt be doing or not doing things on the basis of what my XW wife might think. I can probably explain more about my thinking if anyones interested.
So I did that and one first profiles that pops up is my XW - I guess things with OM arent as good as I had assumed.
I dont think this changes anything substantially as the fundamental is that she still doesnt want much to do with me and even if she did she wouldnt act on it - however its a change none the less.
Both mid 30s, 2 young kids BD 7sep14 XW moved on long ago, now living with OM1 D paperwork in progress
Hi Jim - interesting....obviously life with OM wasn't all candy floss and popsicles then.
That may partly account for your W's rather warmed up approach. When all was happy with OM, it was easy to see you as awful. If things have gone pear-shaped with OM, it may have rubbed the sheen off your 'awfulness' in her eyes.
Good luck with the dating venture too. The only bit of your post I would comment on is this part...
"the fundamental is that she still doesnt want much to do with me and even if she did she wouldnt act on it - however its a change none the less."
And only to say that I think the part in red is a touch of mindreading. Who knows what she may or may not do. It is still relatively early in your sitch, and I don't think things are by any means hopeless lovely Jim.
xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
