Zelda - I want it all, all right now.

[Zelda09]

I know this is physical abuse, categorically, specifically intimidation.

Just found out he texted my mom a line, "she pushes and pushes and doesn't listen to anything I have to say." I guess the message is clear I better not say anything, certainly not repeat myself unless I want a scene like last night.

I'm wondering if the fact I don't want to go out, do anything, see anyone since he's been home - all I want to do is sleep and cry - I wonder how much self-imposed stress this is, and how much is just frustration and his tactics in a conversation that make me feel like I'm going crazy.

All I know is I've been struggling with a lot of feelings of self-hatred ever since I've stopped unleashing my anger and frustration at him.

I feel like there is really subtle power play here. It sounds paranoid, but I wonder if this whole 3.5 months of being fired, him leaving me, if it wasn't done at some level to break me. He stepped back in SO easily, so effortlessly. A family member complimented me, how gentle I've become, I'm a much softer me...I can't say it feels like an improvement from here.

I know I've seen him sit on the couch and cry about his suicidal feelings, what he was going through last year...I know this was real to him. I just don't know what kind of manipulation he's really capable of.

On the way to a breakfast this weekend I did ask him point blank (gives you an idea) if he blamed me for the way our marriage deteriorated. He said no, obviously I'm struggling with a lot of things and piss poor communication. I am lucky to have you, a lot of people wouldn't have been able to handle me.

The fact that I feel so low and so confused, and so far off from that confident happy person I used to be...I don't want to blame him and say there has been emotional abuse here, but I feel like something has been going on besides what happened last night. Just can't wrap my head around it.

[Vanilla]

Apologies my editing ran out of time.

Paragraph should read
I have also learned that....

Tough to do if there are no bruises. (Not brushes!)

Al Turtle unhefully calls

Apologies for not finishing editing.

V

[Zelda09]

V, if we use this master/slave paradigm, my H is a very passive master. I am a day to day master. We are definitely not friends. Even though I have been trying, the "I don't knows" and 'power in passivity' from him is ridiculous.

I just feel so over it. I don't know how I can expect to build a happy life with someone who is so toxic. None of my other relationships went this way. I remember two very good 'friend-friend' relationships that were long term but didn't progress. It took someone like my H to really get to me (apparently in the bad sense as well as the good.)

[Zelda09]

This stood out to me:

"Over the weekend they had visited her parents in Butte, Montana. I asked them to look at the power in that family. “Dad is the powerful one,” she said. “He runs three businesses in town, with about 60 employees. People really respect and I suppose fear him. He certainly uses a lot of Master Talk!” “Ok. How about mom?” I asked. “Mom is not very healthy. She has spent quite a bit of time with her illnesses and she lives very very quietly at home.”“Ok. Now, who runs the family?” I asked. Long pause. “Um. She does. Everyone caters to her. Everyone watches out for her. Every tries to make her life easier. I always thought Dad was the big power, but I guess Mom is more powerful. She’s the Passive-Master.”

[Vanilla]

I know this is physical abuse, categorically, specifically intimidation.

Just found out he texted my mom a line, "she pushes and pushes and doesn't listen to anything I have to say." I guess the message is clear I better not say anything, certainly not repeat myself unless I want a scene like last night.

V this is typical abuse cycle. The abuser in the 'remorse' stage will attempt to shift the blame. you made me do this and also to regain control. It also is an attempt to cover up or minimise. In my last abuse I blew the doors off and now none of this is hidden. I wished that I had done this much sooner. Abusers change the rules and there is no way you can comply.

I'm wondering if the fact I don't want to go out, do anything, see anyone since he's been home - all I want to do is sleep and cry - I wonder how much self-imposed stress this is, and how much is just frustration and his tactics in a conversation that make me feel like I'm going crazy.

Crazy making and it is shock. An abuse escalation will leave you feeling that somewhere deep down actually may be perhaps there is some truth there. You are describing almost exactly how I felt. Did you read and are quoting from my journal perhaps?

All I know is I've been struggling with a lot of feelings of self-hatred ever since I've stopped unleashing my anger and frustration at him.

As the screaming banshee went away, this was also my experience too. So that part of me I called Plain Vanilla came forward, I bought Hs description of me as a pitiful creature. Paradoxically my understanding and experience is that this can be a phase of great growth as I learned to redirect this in more positive ways. It has taken a great deal of energy but I never want this in my life again. This will be a one off, so change must occur.

I feel like there is really subtle power play here. It sounds paranoid, but I wonder if this whole 3.5 months of being fired, him leaving me, if it wasn't done at some level to break me. He stepped back in SO easily, so effortlessly. A family member complimented me, how gentle I've become, I'm a much softer me...I can't say it feels like an improvement from here.

Z you may never know and frankly this does not matter much. Those improvements are for you Z, no one else. It took me nearly 6 months before I understood that the 'softness' actually left me better place, less upset and sad, and detachment was the biggest gain in all of this. More full of love for myself, unloading my backpack of negativity.

I know I've seen him sit on the couch and cry about his suicidal feelings, what he was going through last year...I know this was real to him. I just don't know what kind of manipulation he's really capable of.

Yes, real pity party stuff! Here H have the poor me T shirt. Really H your issues, I can only provide the supportive environment for you, the rest is up to you. Get on with it.

On the way to a breakfast this weekend I did ask him point blank (gives you an idea) if he blamed me for the way our marriage deteriorated. He said no, obviously I'm struggling with a lot of things and piss poor communication. I am lucky to have you, a lot of people wouldn't have been able to handle me.

Well, he can not really say anything else! Z, it is to keep you on the hook.

The fact that I feel so low and so confused, and so far off from that confident happy person I used to be...I don't want to blame him and say there has been emotional abuse here, but I feel like something has been going on besides what happened last night. Just can't wrap my head around it.

I came to know that blame will be unhelpful. This must be confusing, it is the worst behaviour and will leave you confused. take time out to think about it.

Z comes first. Be safe. If you need to get space do so as much as you need. Decide on your boundary. If it is helpful here is mine. "I feel sad and hurt H when I think that you are abusing me. I will no longer be verbally or emotionally abused and if this happens again I will leave to consider my choices'. It did so I left for 10 days. Then 'if I am abused again I will involve the authorities' it did, so I have and I have left for 10 days. Now ' if I am abused again, I will get a restraining order'

I have not asked H to do anything other than stop abusive behaviour. There is no excusing, colluding, denying or demands. just I want this stopped today.

Z, please get help with this. Ceasing denial is a big step, it really is Important and the descriptions you are giving at their core match almost word for word how I have felt.
I am projecting every ounce of strength and love I can. No matter how hard this is, it need never be like this again.

[Vanilla]

I just feel so over it. I don't know how I can expect to build a happy life with someone who is so toxic. None of my other relationships went this way. I remember two very good 'friend-friend' relationships that were long term but didn't progress. It took someone like my H to really get to me (apparently in the bad sense as well as the good.)

I am just a classic avoider. Denial was my middle name. All of my previous Rs have been friend-friend ones too. But clearly there is something to learn from each R. Whatever we do. I know much of my oomph has gone and I am working to get it back.

You say toxic, but that Z is a judgement of H. Who knows where they get their chit from. It is theirs to own, suggest you stay away from condemning H but seek to enforce your boundary. Let H clear the pooh from his own sandbox. It is behaviour which is most concerning especially as there appears to be blame shifting. Blame shifting is classic denial and not wanting to handle things.

V

[Zelda09]

V - you are right on so many levels. Yes, I am the assertive strong one in our R, and I was emotionally flooding all over the place for years.

But, I have ceased criticizing. I have ceased having expectations or pushing him. Communication has appeared to improve. The truth is I am feeling bullied, emotionally, physically, psychologically.

I feel like I am in denial. There was a period, here on this forum, where I wrote that I felt like the fog was lifting, and I was happy and free. Now the fog is back and I want to tell myself why everything is normal and ok.

The truth is I am scared to be without him and alone again. That is the stupid ugly truth. That I would rather feel this heartache week in and week out from some source I can't pinpoint than be an individual alone in the world again, without the idea of marriage or family 'secured.'

I thank you for the energy you are putting into your responses. I am flat out panicking at the choices I feel I am looking at in what to do here - none of them seem good.

[Vanilla]

V - you are right on so many levels. Yes, I am the assertive strong one in our R, and I was emotionally flooding all over the place for years.

Now that you have stopped flooding with your emotions then I think two things are happening (at least this is what happened for me):
firstly you are detaching rather than reacting: in your earlier post you describe asking H (calmly) to remove his fists,
secondly you are losing denial and H is no longer able to say 'see Z your reaction made me so this.is Z responsibility, if you had done X instead....'. You stopped the cycle of blame by retaining balance during an incident. You kept calm and your reaction is inacapble of being a 'cause'.

This has given you insight and clarity as if you were a third party observing.


But, I have ceased criticizing. I have ceased having expectations or pushing him. Communication has appeared to improve. The truth is I am feeling bullied, emotionally, physically, psychologically.

Actually I believe this feeling of being bullied etc was always there.

it iwas that your own flooding masked the bullying etc and also enabled it through denial and reaction. This is no longer the case.

Your flooding added an extra emotional layer, I think the fact that you experienced anger first (The physiologically more dominant 'lizard' or lambic emotion) was covering up your sadness (the longer term parasympathetic emotion).

Now I believe as in my sitch the sadness is exposed: it has always been there but by reacting I said to myself this sadness is of my own making, if I change my anger the sadness will go away. It can not do that because the sadness is a result of the self being negated in the R, not because of the anger (screaming banshee) which has arisen during flooding. Hope that makes sense.

I feel like I am in denial. There was a period, here on this forum, where I wrote that I felt like the fog was lifting, and I was happy and free. Now the fog is back and I want to tell myself why everything is normal and ok.

Z, from reading your posts then I sense that the issue is that you are no longer in denial. You may want to be as that is more comfortable. Actually you appear to be in full colour acceptance, there is no going back to denial. The fog is sadness and it will shift as you manage your expectations from your R.

The truth is I am scared to be without him and alone again. That is the stupid ugly truth.

I understand this, and this is only one of the choices. There is a journey ahead of you Z. A journey to find Z.[ in this type of relationship then there have always been great alone periods, the cycle of abuse will indicate those periods of isolation./color]

That I would rather feel this heartache week in and week out from some source I can't pinpoint than be an individual alone in the world again, without the idea of marriage or family 'secured.'

[color:#6600CC]In truth we are all alone throughout life but we need not be lonely. Abuse isolates and in my case has made me lonely even though I am supposedly in an R. I have decided that I am better off being free of abuse, I am lonely in this R anyway so actually I prefer to be alone instead and free of abuse. H has attempted to isolate me anyway (without success).

This feels to me like trying to 'love' the abuse out of the abuser.

I thank you for the energy you are putting into your responses.

I am sharing as much as I can with someone I respect very much.

I am flat out panicking at the choices I feel I am looking at in what to do here - none of them seem good.

z, probably the choices are not that glowing and I feel the same. You are younger with a life and children ahead of you. This is a cross road in your life, one of many. Z, you can be free of a life of abuse, whether with your H or in another R or on your own as a single mom. It is the loss of our dreams that hurts the most.

V

[Vanilla]

Apologies another problem withosting. Z this doesn't track very well so for ease am reposting.

I understand this, and this is only one of the choices. There is a journey ahead of you Z. A journey to find Z. In this type of relationship then there have always been great alone periods, the cycle of abuse will indicate those periods of isolation.

That I would rather feel this heartache week in and week out from some source I can't pinpoint than be an individual alone in the world again, without the idea of marriage or family 'secured.'

In truth we are all alone throughout life but we need not be lonely. Abuse isolates and in my case has made me lonely even though I am supposedly in an R. I have decided that I am better off being free of abuse, I am lonely in this R anyway so actually I prefer to be alone instead and free of abuse. H has attempted to isolate me anyway (without success).

This feels to me like trying to 'love' the abuse out of the abuser.

V

[susana4]

Some really great insights here. Z, whatever lies ahead, please take care of yourself first and foremost. We are rooting for you!