Confused 3

[Vanilla]

Joe

I am reading your thread. Just had quite a bit of personal stuff going on. Mainly to do with abuse.

I can say when I learned the 'trick' to detatching and for each person the key is different, it was very helpful to me. I found I could observe my H and gradually awareness of his attitudes and activities became clearer.

I think your W is doing something the vets call Temperature checking. Of course she could also be spring cleaning.

V

[Joe46]

Thank you V. I hope everything is okay. I am not a vet of course, but I am also here if you need to vent

I enjoy your posts and appreciate your help. I think today could have been both! Temp checking and spring cleaning! It seems as though she wanted me to know she was organizing her room. I think it is great that she is organizing it. I have become VERY comfortable having my own room. Hopefully that doesn't sound bad. I like the space between us right now. I am looking forward to getting my truck back this week so I can start going fishing and take the kids to town.

[Vanilla]

See this is where the Divorce Busting gets confusing!!

Joe, DB is straightforward. DB is about you Joe and doing that which works for Joe. Your M is ancillary to Joe, if something is not working do something else.

Wives send their husbands signals that they don't understand.

Unlikely it is signals, women in general are considered the better communicators. This is generalising as in all cats like fish, supposing your cat prefers chicken and is allergic to fish. Is what you are saying that you (Joe) have not yet decoded your Ws behaviour and words? Consider how large do the gestures have to be, how old the talk before you hear her.


After sending these signals for a long time, the wife finds another man.

Perhaps, perhaps not.

Than we come here and are told to avoid contact with them. Don't text, call, write or try to talk to them. So now the wife has more ammunition to say " I'm glad I left". Or we help push them out the door by doing all these things.

Joe, you do what works. In some cases communication helps in others it does not. WW in general are hard to communicate with when they are deep in an EA and PA, and it is for the LBS that it is recommended less contact. Many of them leave themselves.

I am suppose to validate my wife's feelings, but I can't because we are not suppose to talk about relationship things.

Joe, I do not read this into DB. V validates her H and his feelings, it is human and good to do.

I will no longer have drawn out discussions about my R with H. I will validate H in his feelings. The two things are not the same and there is no result from one to the other. Just because I do not discuss our R then I can still validate H feelings. Validation does not mean that I agree, just that I acknowledge. H may say V I hate cheese and I do not want cheese in my house. I can say, I hear you H you do not like cheese and I understand that. I am not agreeing, just acknowledging.

I recommended a book to MCS which you may find helpful which discusses this Co dependency for dummies. You can also look at Al Turtles site for the following: Validation, Detachment.



Or I am suppose to DETACH.

Detachment means to let go of the outcome. It means doing what needs to be done without expectation of results. Detatchment does not mean not attaching. If done properly detachment is very helpful to both DB and your M. It means trying a 180 and having no expectation of success, it means trying new ways of approaching your issues and then evaluating if it needs adapting or changing. Detatchment is a life tool.

I wonder if this is really Divorce Busting or Divorce prepping??? I feel like the things I have been doing lately are pushing my wife out the door.

Change what you do, try something else if that is how you feel. Use a new tool.

I get the feeling she is stock piling money and spring cleaning so she is ready to leave.
W choice. Get Intel so you know if it concerns you.

Joe, I felt I wanted to answer you from my experience.

[Joe46]

Thank you for responding V. What you said makes sense. I have struggled with all of this because I get heading down a path that I think is right and than something comes along and I second guess myself.

I started working on being more loving and supportive of my wife about 2 months ago. I would leave her nice notes once in awhile. Send her a text once in awhile. Really listen and ask her about what was going on with her. Things I should have been doing all along. It felt different to me. She was giving me hugs and saying good night and getting kisses once in awhile. To be honest, it felt like it was not the right time for me to be doing these things. I wanted to, but not while she was talking these type of phone calls. I felt like a doormat. But I was confused about what to do. I had a gut feeling that she was talking with someone else. I have had gut feelings in our marriage before and they turned out to be true. So I decided to test my gut feeling. Our cell phones were under her name. I wanted to see about how much it would cost to upgrade. But I need to log on to the account. So I needed the log in. She texted it to me. Didn't work. Came home that night. Told her it didn't work. I asked her to log on with her computer so I could look while she takes her nap. She logged on and sat right next to me and watched me like a hawk. I told her I would put her computer back when I was done. She said she was not tired. I than had to use the bathroom and told her I would look at it another time. When I came back upstairs she was taking her nap and had logged out of the account. She said I could use her computer. I tried logging in again. Nothing. Tried several times. Nothing. Just happened to type in something in her search on the computer and all these emails came up using her character name from work. The only reason I see that she would not want me to see the cell phone account is because she does not want me to see the number she is texting or calling all the time. I made the decision right than that I had to change what I was doing. I was working on being more loving and supportive to her while she appears to be carrying on a online affair.

This is where I get confused. When I read about all the posts saying that I didn't see the signs. I did not love my wife like I should have. I caused her emotional problems. I start believing that I drove her to have this affair or become addicted to this job. So how am I supposed to say" I will not be in a open marriage or support you while you are having a EA or support you while doing this job", if I drove her to do this??

These past few weeks, I have felt better about myself. I have felt stronger and more confident. I have felt like I can deal with these things and I will be okay. But I also want to work on my issues. I also don't want to do more of the same behavior with my W. So if she feels like I neglected her in the past, am I just doing more of the same? I also want to work on some things about myself, but don't know where to start.

[Vanilla]

Joe

There is plenty of time. I think you are learning and growing quite quickly and you need time.

Lots and lots of time.

This is not like making an instant pudding from a mix from a supermarket. It is more like going to a farm , planting a seed, watering, weeding, picking the plant, washing, grinding, making the flour. Then you have to milk the cow, transport the mlk. Etc

You are rushing, your sitch has taken a long time to develop and it will take a long time to work through. Your knowledge and skills will take time to grow to integrate.

If the answer takes time then it does so.

S L O W L Y

V

[Vanilla]

Fat finger syndrome

Some threads are more general they are informational and discursive of ideas and strategies, idea to think about, some of the ideas will apply to you a lot, some a little and others not at all. Your own thread is the place to discuss and apply items specific to your sitch. For example items that look at piecing or divorce may not apply to you at this time. Items relating to abuse are interesting to V but items on WW not at all because V is not a WW. Etc

Joe, perhaps more theoretical knowledge will help you. Consider a period of reading and consolidation of your thinking. Particularly on boundaries, detachment and validation. The general threads will help you with techniques and some will be easier to use to start with. if you were learning a new language say Cantonese, then it is unlikely that you would go and discuss advanced economic theory with a Cantonese professor after two weeks! You would have lessons, go and order a loaf of bread, chat to a friend and gradually build your skill. It is the same with these skills. It takes time to build the skills and practice and after these are skills for life, for the rest of your life.

V


V

[Joe46]

Thank you V. I will try doing some reading. It feels like that is all I have done since all this started. Wished I would have done it sooner.

[Vanilla]

Thank you V. I will try doing some reading. It feels like that is all I have done since all this started. Wished I would have done it sooner.

Skim the book, grasp the ideas, then read.

Make active reading, buy coloured pens, a notebook or lever arch a5 file and answer the questions in the books, question. how can I apply this? Google key words, if a board member says a resource helped, go search it out. Reread, have a break. Yes, V really does do that!

Search TED talks and choose a couple to watch.

Scribble, draw, use stickies. Then try applying in situations which are non threatening, the guy at the shop, your mum etc.

[Joe46]

This makes sense. I will do this. Thank you for the good ideas:)

[sandi2]

This is where I get confused. When I read about all the posts saying that I didn't see the signs. I did not love my wife like I should have. I caused her emotional problems. I start believing that I drove her to have this affair or become addicted to this job. So how am I supposed to say" I will not be in a open marriage or support you while you are having a EA or support you while doing this job", if I drove her to do this??

We talked about some of this on my thread, so I don't want to rehash it again. I'm sure you've probably heard someone say about their S that he/she drove me to drink. But that is not exactly true, is it? The drinking was a chose. A lot of people self medicate, trying to cope with difficult problems, and usually, add more problems by the method they choose.

Joe, we have all made mistakes in our relationships. If the message coming across is saying you didn't love your W the way you should have, and you are responsible for her decisions.........maybe it was not worded very well, IDK.

I have gone back over some of your posts and I see a guy who is sensitive and when under pressure may over-react just a hair? Sounds exactly like me when I am stressed out. So whenever you are confused, by all means, speak up. Likewise, when we see you say something we feel could have been misunderstood, okay?

For the record, everyone on the board may not agree 100% all the time in the advice given. Partly b/c each stitch has some variaration, as well as similarities. The other part has to do with the one giving the advice and their experiences and knowledge. But even more importantly.......If you read advice on another member's thread, it may not necessarily be designed for your stitch. Make sense?

For example, whenever I talk about WW's, it is in overall general terms. I am not there and do not know that woman personally. All I have about that stitch is what the H has said. I can usually hit pretty close, but mostly it is a wide spectrum.

Not long ago, there was a newcomer who very confused b/c as he had read Divorce Remedy, and he took everything MWD said to apply personally to his stitch. However, there are some parts that may be advice for those with unfaithful partners and wouldn't apply to those who had faithful partners. See what I mean? We have to make sure who the message goes to, and what their stitch is.

Of course, if you've directly been given contrary advice, I could understand why it would rattle your brain. I don't know what to tell you other than try to stay balanced and think hard about it.

Actually, that's the very reason I started a thread about wayward wives b/c I had seen over time how some newcomers were getting mixed advice......or interpretation. Some of the advice was spot on for a WAW who was not wayward, however, was not so effective when applied toward a WW.

I think you were doing pretty good until the emotional abuse subject came up. You see, I didn't make a big deal out of your WW accusing you of it, b/c WW's say stuff like that all the time! But when pointed out to you by another member, you have been twisted inside ever since. Only you know if it is true or not. If it is, then get help so you can change it. If not, then move forward. But either way (guilty or not), your W is the one responsible for her own actions. I have repeated that statement many, many times.

Look Joe, if your W did not have a wayward heart, the minute you told her you did not want her doing the phone sex.......she would have dropped it immediately, with great relief. Instead, how did she react? Those are the telling signs, right there.

So how am I supposed to say" I will not be in a open marriage or support you while you are having a EA or support you while doing this job", if I drove her to do this??

Nobody pushed you into saying anything. We gave you examples of how to state a boundary. It is your decision to make. You felt more like a man than you had in a long time, didn't you? But now you are back to second guessing yourself b/c you think everything is your fault and you have no right to say this to your W?