Met 20 yrs ago, married 19yrs - 3 kids (2 teenagers & 10yo). We have been living abroad for past 10 yrs. H is a workaholic who takes high stress/high reward jobs of turning companies around, which means he is out of a job every 2-3yrs. Another job always comes along, but the process has taken its toll on his self-esteem. His choice of careers however at 47yrs he is worried the next big job may not come.
I believe he is in the midst of a midlife crisis and has been since 2011 - when he was abruptly replaced at a job. For past 3 years he has been working away from home, only home 1–2 weekends a month. He also put big walls up, became grumpy and quit communicating. He quit having fun - no vacations, no time with friends, no social life ... He quit living. We started going to MC in Oct, but by Nov he was replaced from his latest job. So now we have a broken marriage and he is looking for work. He has decided that he is tired of living abroad and wants to move to the US. I told him that I would only go back if I were his wife and we were working on our relationship. At end of Jan, he decided he wanted a divorce as he doesn't see how we can solve our marriage problems (although nothing significant has happened in our marriage - no OW that I have found).
He is proposing blowing up everything in our lives and then leaving us. I don't want to go thru a divorce somewhere I don't have any support network. He wants us to liquidate as much as we can (sell the house) and then abandon the kids and me. He says he needs to move to the US soon (before May) to get a job, however is having a hard time coming up with a plan or location he would move to. He won't even talk thru scenarios with me.
I have asked that he stay in this country to get thru divorce so kids can get use to having 2 homes. He isn't interested and wants to move back ASAP. He wants to be in the kids lives; but I don't see how that is possible from 3,000 miles away.
Although he says he wants a divorce, he hasn't done anything to get the process going. He doesn't want to move out. Still sleeping in the same bed and wants sex. He doesn't want to tell the kids. He wants to use a mediator (cheaper than lawyers), but hasn't contacted one yet. I am not sure how well mediation works when he has moved to another country.
Things had been better the past couple of weeks. Yesterday, he agreed they are better, but he doesn't know how to fix us and doesn't see a future for us and still wants a divorce. I asked if he wants to fix us - his only answer is he doesn't know how and wants a divorce.
I have been working on GAL! I have been running and spending time with friends. Went to a black tie a few weeks ago. The kids are very busy with their sports as eldest 2 are trying out for national development squads. And it is competition season again for their horses. I'm taking my eldest on a vacation in a couple of weeks. If he is gone, I would like to get a job! But can't do anything until I know his plans.
I feel like I am waiting for my world to blow up and I have no control. I can handle facts, but this ambiguity is tearing me up.
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
I'm no expert here but just catching up re: some of the posts. From what I have read b 4, you may need to post in Newcomers I think you would get a better more informative response there! Please try there - you may come across Cadet's post to newbies with sugggested links as well. Keep posting, someone will get 2 you. Take care & keep strong, p.
pbetra ---- M: 15 yrs (in 2014) BD: 6/03/2014 Infidelity ('known' from July 2014) Denied PA Feb 2015 2 leave Mar 2015 (left early Summer). Some contact. Back briefly 2017 (after family death) Separated 2017
Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read. This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.
Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources. You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.
I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations. Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure. You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you! Start your homework assignments. Something to DO while you are on moderation. GAL. Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath. In general take care of your self first. Detach the single most important thing to DO.
Your H/W has given you a gift THE GIFT OF TIME use it wisely
I'm very sorry that you are here, but I can assure you that you will get some good advice and support here. From your posting, it does sound like he's in crisis. Did something happen within the last 18-24 months that rocked his world besides being replaced at his job?
The confusion, not thinking clearly, is a sign he is in crisis. So he wants to sell and move to the US. Well, it's evident that he's not begun the process if he's still sleeping in the home. Sometimes they tend to spew and all you need to do is listen. Yes, he wants a divorce, but he's not done anything yet...don't help him w/this. However, you need to get your ducks in a row since he's acting irrationally right now. Set up your own accounts, make copies of important documents, if you have joint accounts, you may need to take some money out of those accounts to place in your new ones. Check your credit card balances and you will need to remove your name from them, especially if charges begin to show up that you aren't aware of. Don't put this stuff off because, if he's in mlc, he's going to start spending at some point, be it on toys or setting up his new place or even an ow may eventually show up in his life...but you need to plan and protect your assets for you and your children.
Now, what can you do about helping him? Leave him alone, listen to what he has to say and do not argue w/him no matter how much he baits you. If he's angry and spewing, just say "h, when you have calmed down, I will be happy to discuss the matter w/you". If he's upset, say "h, I'm sorry you feel that way" and walk away. You and your children do not have to put up w/the temper tantrums of a man child.
It's okay to begin looking around for a job. It doesn't mean you will get one right a way, but start getting your ducks in a row. Get on your computer and start looking at divorce in the country where you are living. Knowledge is power. Right now, you are the sane one and you have to be on your toes because he's getting ready to hit the mlc full blown.
No more discussions about how things are at home for now. He needs time and space. No more discussions about the relationship. Okay? Go on w/your life as if he's a roommate. The less stress you put on him w/questions about what he's going to do, the better. Why? Because he honestly doesn't know what he wants or is going to do. The more you push for answers, the harder he's going to run the other way.
Keep the focus on you and your children. Live your life to the fullest and definitely start setting up your own accounts. MLC is not for the faint of heart. It's not a sprint, but a marathon and no matter what happens, you are going to be okay.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
In 2011 we bought a house and put a large part of our savings into renovating it. Then 2012 shortly after renovating he was abruptly replaced. However was in a new job within 4 mos Then last year he reported to a guy who was a complete jerk. He felt like he was going to battle every day at work. He is so work focused.
H is a big idea person - He hates it when I pressure him for a plan or process. In our relationship, I have always done the personal project management role while he had the role of the boss/strategist. It worked because he respected me and my position. Since he has quit respecting me, these roles don't work as I am expecting him to be part of the process (which he hates).
I am willing to be patient as long as he is living in the same country; however he is still talking about leaving early-April and moving back to the US. (no dates/location/plans - yet). If he does go back to the US still in MLC, I will file for divorce; as I need to ensure financial security and I don't want him to choose the divorce jurisdiction. I have contacted a lawyer and got advice. This is far from ideal.
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
I am trying to show my kids that money can't buy you happiness. True happiness comes from within.
Thankfully being the "project manager", I have maintained control of all finances. We are waiting for 2 big payments then I am going to change our bank accounts to joint signature required for items greater than x. However, he will have to sign paperwork and I don't want to spook him and have those payments not arrive. Also, thankfully all our money is from traceable sources, so it would be harder for it to disappear - as lawyer said that his a major fraud offense.
A close friend of mine is a divorce attorney who gave the opinion that if a man has another bed waiting that he doesn't stick around. I don't think this is being driven by OW; however wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't get OW before it is over.
JOB - your post on detaching is great! I think I need to read it every day.
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
I am signed up for a course which will give me a certification which should help me land a job! I haven't worked in 15 years and my resume is a dusty. The certification is just a box tick; but it does show something current for my resume! Although, I have been warned against getting a job too quickly as the kids are going to need time to adjust to everything - dad leaving and me going back to work full time might be a bit too much at once (and it might go against me in a divorce settlement).
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
There are several things that everyone finds difficult when they come here and they are: detachment, patience and "expectation". Please try to stop expecting him to do things. He's not the same person that he once was and quite frankly when you are expecting things from him, he may very well turn the project into a passive-aggressive mess. I know this is difficult, but you need to accept him for the man he is right now, not what he once was. He's a man child and he's going to do whatever it takes to make himself feel better, i.e., addictions come to mind such as workaholic, focusing on sports, gardening, fishing, partying, drinking drugs, ow/om gambling and spending. It's true happiness comes from within, but your man child needs to discover this for himself.
You may try to get him to remain in the country where you are at, but push come to shove, if he feels too much pressure from outside sources, he may just up and pack a bag and flee when you least expect it. The best to do as a "project manager" is to leave him completely alone. Yes, you want him to participate in family things and do things around the home, but don't be surprised when he does them half @ss or not at all. MLCers do not like to be told what to do or when to do it.
I'm glad to see you've signed up for a course. It's a step forward for you and hopefully you'll find work at a later time.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I am no longer willing to be his emotional porter sorting out his relationship with his children and I am no longer willing to be his life secretary ensuring his life paperwork (e.g. taxes, immigration, drivers license, insurance paperwork) gets done. So yes, I have expectations of him that these are HIS life responsibilities and I am no longer going to cover for him and do them for him. He has chosen to "fire me", but then expects me to show up to "work" daily.
e.g. Today son has a match (which he has every Wed afternoon) and it is in the family calendar which is on every mobile device. I refuse to remind H of the match. It is his choice to attend or not. I am going to attend.
Maybe I have it wrong, but I'm not sure I am strong enough to do it all for him with a smile on my face and no conflict (which it seems like what he wants)...
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
Can extremely different personality types actually compliment each other or does it just lead to a hole where your needs aren't being met?
H is an introvert and I am an extrovert. I enjoy going out, exploring and having adventures. H idea of a good time is to sit home and read or watch tv (although before MLC he use to enjoy going out occasionally; however would never plan it). I enjoy a house full of friends who drop by unexpectedly and laughter..... H enjoys quiet of his home to recharge.
He has always struggled to put passion in our relationship and make me feel special. He is emotionally very reserve however drawn to people who are outgoing. He becomes an observer in most of those relationships. He uses extroverts openness to gain emotional access to a friendship. This works for a while; but then he doesn't know how to participate in the relationship and the friendships become shallow or go away.
This is a chance for us both to re-evaluate our lives and what we want going forward.
Anyone else with experiences of Introverts and Extrovert relationships?
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
The old saying opposites attract is so true. My xh and I were exact opposites. He was the introvert and I was the extrovert, i.e., different as night and day. Extreme? Possibly. It worked well until he hit 40 and then things began to change due to the crisis. He never suggested doing anything, so...I was left w/the planning and yes, he would participate at times. I would not try to control and/or make him feel guilty if he didn't participate. We use to have some tradeoffs like he would do some things w/me and I would sit and read and/or watch TV w/him.
Your situation sounds a bit like mine was. You either have to accept them for who they are or move on w/your life. You can't change them. If you haven't figured it out yet, if you want this relationship to work, you'll need to go out and do the things that you love and if he doesn't want to participate, then leave him at home doing his own thing.
As for friends, my friends were his and the same applied to his relationship w/the ow (deceased wife)i.e, her friends were his. Now that she's passed on, I have been told that he doesn't associate w/them any longer and is pretty much a loner. The only time that he could make friends or initiate conversations w/strangers was if he had a bottle or glass of beer in his hand. I guess the alcohol gave him the courage to reach out of his comfort zone to "loosen up" and chatter. He had difficulty maintaining conversations and relationships w/people.
The crisis is definitely a chance to re-evaluate both of your lives. The bigger question is this...are you willing to be patient and allow him to heal and figure things out? The changes that you make, must be for you, i.e., not to win him back. You have to be happy w/those changes and they must become permanent.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Job - sounds like our men were very similar. It has worked well for 20 years because although introvert, he would try to engage with others. Since MLC started in 2012 he has gone further and further into his hole.
D15 is also an introvert. I am trying to help her with trusting others and not taking life too seriously. There is nothing wrong with being an introvert, however if you want to be accepted by other people, you have to be willing to put yourself out there. H really struggles with her because they both shut down on each other.
The notion that H has become a man-child is really fitting. It is like he is a teenager! I feel more like his emotional nurturer than his partner. He takes emotions/energy from me like a child however offers very little in return.
We had a very open conversation a couple of nights ago where he admitted this all started back in 2012 when we were renovating our main house and 5 of us were living in a 600sf small house. He had work pressures which led to him being replaced and we just put our cash savings into the renovation. (although we still had lots of money in investments/retirement). It was too much for his introvert needs. That is when he went down the rabbit hole.
He has had interest from several companies this week. It is amazing to hear him talk with clarity and articulation about business plans and strategies with including 100 day business goals; however he is unable to put any of this in to his personal life.
He is still talking about going back to the US some time in April; however still doesn't want to tell the children. I am trying to keep busy and hold on until he leaves. Unfortunately, once he leaves I don't see there will be any chance for R and I don't think he will be healed enough to want to R before he goes.
Still can't find any signs of any OW. I have always believed that his mistress was his work. He defines himself 100% by his job and how much money he has.
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
I think you misinterpreted what I posted, i.e., "Please stop expecting him to do things". I meant don't expect him to put out the trash, have sex, do the dishes, pick up the kids, all the normal chores that he would have done prior to crisis. You can't rely on him for anything because he'll say he will do it and then won't, or he'll conveniently forget about it or will do it half @ss, etc.
As for being his emotional porter sorting out his relationship w/his children and being his life secretary...oh h@ll no! He's a big boy and can figure out his taxes, immigration, driver's license and insurance paperwork. He fired you as a wife, lover and companion.
I wouldn't do it all for him...again he's a big boy and you are not his mother. When he asks if you did something, just say, "h, I didn't have time to do it or I've been busy and didn't get around to do it". Smile and walk away.
Time for this man child to grow up and learn to do things for himself.
Thanks for clarification. For past 3 years H has been working away from home 24 days a month...l gave up expectations a long time ago as he was never around. Although off work now and he could pitch in more, I still do 95% of it all. I am not keen on getting use to having him around, only to have him leave again.
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
I found a list of things I wanted to accomplish between Jan-June.... It feels good to be on a path! H drags his feet and stonewalls when it comes to making plans in our personal life. It was his way of controlling me, without a plan I have to wait on him. It feels good to be able to put a plan in place - I know plans may change, but it is a start to moving down the road of life.
Btw on my 6 mos list - - lose weight (down 15lbs..... Another 30 to go then I want to train for another half-marathon). I put on 25lbs since H began MLC crisis in 2012. The constant rejection really took a toll on me.
- take a holiday (leaving on 24th with eldest D)! So excited to be going, havent gone on a holiday in 5 years.
- start taking steps to get a job (signed up for a course)
- support H thru job search (I'm being polite, but realise this one isn't really important anymore as this is HIS journey)
- get the child sports schedule sorted as logistics, accommodations, qualifiers, training all take time to organise.
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
Your h sounds like he's passive-aggressive if he was dragging his feet and stonewalling your plans in your personal life. I'm glad to see that you are going to go ahead w/your plans for the next few months. They may change, but nothing is set in stone and those changes may be good ones for you and your family.
A holiday away will be good for you and I wouldn't worry about him while you are gone. He's a grown man and should be able to take care of himself. If not, he can eat at McD's or some other fast food joint. As for his laundry, he can do that too.
Once you get all of the schedules and logistical information sorted, give him a copy and then don't remind him again. He will have a copy and he can refer to it or else he will lose out.
It's very frustrating living w/someone in crisis, but to add passive-aggressive behavior to the mix is even more frustrating. I learned to just leave him right where he was if he wasn't ready to go or found excuses to drag his feet. He soon learned that I wasn't playing the game of reminding him it's time to go, etc. It took me many years to finally figure out why he would screw things up and yet, if he really wanted to do something like go to a ball game or go out drinking w/his buddies, he would do whatever he was suppose to do perfectly, but couldn't do it right another time when I would ask him to take care of the task. Passive-aggressive behavior at its finest.
Bottom line, take care of yourself and be there for your children. Your journey will be different than his. You will become more aware of your surroundings, learn to be more patient, become more compassionate and willing to help others that may cross your path and yes, even more independent. You will be come wiser than you ever imagined and when it's all said and done, you'll be able to look back and be able to see some of the red flags that were there all along, but because you were too close to the situation, you couldn't see them waving in the wind.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Really struggling tonight. H has got interest from a company 5,000 miles away(8 hr time diff). How can he expect to be a part of kids lives? (Note he is talking to some companies which would only be 5hr time zone diff). Divorce me - fine! But walking out on the children stinks! He is blaming me that I won't move to US so that kids can be near him. I refuse to take the kids away from the only life they know and their friends on the chance he will spend time with them when not too busy traveling with work. He found very little time over the past 3 yrs to spend with them as work is a huge identity point for him. He still doesn't want to tell the kids and I think they need time to process all this before he buggers off. S is going to be heartbroken as he idealises his father.
I have no clue how much of this is real for him as still acting like a family - not even moved out of bedroom.
I realise that he is in the selfish man-child phase but making decisions which take him out of his children's lives is just wrong.
i see the journey he needs to take to grow & own his emotions. Just so sad that he is running away from the kids too.
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
Btw - I don't refuse to move back to USA, just won't do it in the chaos of a divorce and leave my support network. I am not that strong.
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
Job - you have great insite! Yes very passive-aggressive.
He needs this journey as he has lost himself and often struggles with basic stuff around town or the house.
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
Hi dejavu, My W refused to talk to the kids (14 and 17 at the time) about her plans to move (and take D's half the time!) until she had rented a house and was just days away from moving! She had been sleeping on the couch for almost a year and telling them it was because I "snored too loud", not because she (like every MLCer) couldn't stand being near me in bed. They all sleep as far on their side when still sleeping together. For my part, after telling her many times that we needed to talk to the girls and tell them what is happening, I decided I wasn't going to hide it or lie to them. When they asked questions I told them that their mother was going through a hard time and that she may be leaving. When the day came that she got the guts to finally talk to them (what she said was ridiculous when she actually did talk to them but that's a different subject) they weren't so shocked and handled much better.
IMO, and I don't know your sitch as well as you so you need to do what you think best, I would be honest with the kids. They have to see that dad is acting oddly. That the 2 of you aren't acting like H and W. When they ask questions just be honest. If your H decides he is definitely leaving but wants to wait to tell them, I would talk to them alone and give them a heads up.
They already know more than you or H think. They know that things aren't right. We always think they are much less aware than they really are. I think, when the time comes and you have that dreaded talk, they won't be as surprised as you think they will be.
Matt - I am amazed that there really is such consistent behaviour amoungst the MLC. Thanks for sharing your experience with the kids.
H has been hugging the side of the bed since his started. I wish I would have realized what he was going thru back when it started. I am so glad I found this board as it does explain a lot of the craziness!
You are correct the kids are aware that dad has been grumpy since 2012. Although recently much less so as being unemployed has removed the external pressure of work. The kids also know that he is looking at moving back to the US at some point.
At this point there aren't really any other facts to tell the kids as everything else is still speculation. IC encouraged me to keep it factual with the kids.
I want to tell the kids the speculations for me - to force H to face the impact of His decisions. However, this isn't fair to the kids either.
So I will sit with his plans/ideas until they become more of a reality.
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
Dejavu2 - sorry you are here but glad you have found this board to help you. Yes your sitch sounds eerily similar to my life. Best thing I ever did was not to move away from friends who have become like family.
My husband also works in an industry that has taken a toll on him. The moves were thrilling at first but trying to find the next gratifying career move during these economic times has definitely contributed to the MLC. You said work was your H's mistress. That was our case as well and eventually when work slowed down the OW was waiting in the wings.
9 months post BD I can tell you that restraint is your friend. It has, by far, been the hardest lesson but the most helpful advice I can share. Also a helpful guiding principle is to make every decision from a place of peace. As time has passed I can see how this has helped immensely and allows some hope for our M.
Listen to Job and Cadet and people like Matt. They are wise and have such perspective. I can't thank them enough for their support. That being said the most important person to listen to in all this is the deepest part of you. Not the emotional, fearful Dejavu but the inner voice that can only be heard in the quietest of moments without the clatter of children and obligations. You need to search for that voice deep in your heart. Listen to it then restrain yourself before acting impulsively. If you can find that voice then you'll be okay.
One of the beautiful people here posted that DBusting is really about saving yourself. Just like they tell you in those airline safety videos -- put your oxygen mask on first before helping those around you.
Hang in there. You are doing just great. Hope your holiday is lovely.
Last edited by 123Gwen; 03/15/1509:04 AM.
M:25 years at BD w/ 2 daughters BD: 5/14 Separated 6/14 - H moved cross country w/OW D Final 9/17
“I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it.” ― Maya Angelou
Having a weird day here as it is Mother's Day. H has gone out of his way to ensure I have gifts, flowers and a great meal. I'm not sure if this is just out of guilt or what. Loving all the attention! My kids are great.
Have watched my H get emotionally flooded by the kids with several minor situations this weekend. H really struggles when emotions are around. His instinct is to deflect blame and flee. This is not just a husband and wife moment. He gets this way with anyone who gives him too much emotion.
I cannot remember him always being this extreme. But his coping mechanisms are very low right now.
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
Happy Mother's Day! I'm glad he recognized the day and everything is going well. I wouldn't waste any time questioning whether the attention is from guilt or not...just accept that today he's there and doing something nice for you. Tomorrow may be different, but that's tomorrow. Live for today and enjoy the time w/your family.
MLCers' coping skills aren't good at all and that's why they have issues and a crisis. Sounds like your h's aren't very good right now. The crisis can bring out the "extreme" w/coping skills, and other disorders that may have been lying low pre-crisis.
Enjoy your day!
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Told the kids last night with H. Probably did it all wrong. I did end up telling them that dad sees a divorce as his solution and I don't want it. H is furious that I "threw him under the bus". Son is heartbroken that dad wants to move so far away next month. H has no plans of how he is going to see the children once he leaves. H saying it is my fault that I won't follow him - he doesn't see it as a choice he is making (but can't win an argument with a MLC). I feel guilty for pushing to tell the children when he hasn't really made specific plans. However delaying is one of his well-rehearsed places of comfort. Left to him he would tell them and then go the next day. I have been waiting for him to emotionally come back to the family since 2012. I have been neither married nor divorced. I am tired of this limbo-land which he has found comfort in.
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
Don't be so hard on yourself. There is no good way to tell the children. H threw himself under the bus. I am farther down the road than you and I can honestly say that I have never regretted being honest with my children in an age appropriate manner as long as I didn't dwell on the tough stuff. What I mean by that is your children needs to know you will be honest but they also need to know you will be the adult and be their parent. They are counting on you to be the dependable adult parent and you must not let them down.
You can do this Dejavu. It is going to be your greatest challenge but have faith in yourself and listen to your inner voice.
One more thing --- I wish I could tell you that H moving far away will take you out of limbo land. It won't unfortunately. In many ways life is easier because you have the home, the friends, the family you created and people generally don't ask questions. It is a blessing but you still live in the land of in between no matter where they are and if you've even talked to them. Not being married is something you have to choose and I have no idea how you get to that place.
Sending you my prayers and best wishes. You can get through this and find your own path. Hang in there.
M:25 years at BD w/ 2 daughters BD: 5/14 Separated 6/14 - H moved cross country w/OW D Final 9/17
“I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it.” ― Maya Angelou
There is no right time to tell the children that a spouse wants to separate/divorce and move out of the home. Your h actually threw himself under the bus when he decided on what HE wants for HIS future.
If he moves many miles away, so be it. It will be up to him to figure out how to work out visitation, etc., w/the children. He could do it via Skype, webcam, etc. and yes, there are weeks and months when the children are out of school that they could either be w/him or he could come to your area to visit w/them. Where there is a will, there is a way to do things.
As for him being out the area, this may be a good thing for peace and quiet and yes, it will help you find your footing once again. You can do this. You've been doing it since he flipped years ago.
BTW, do not feel guilty by telling the children. It is best to have this discussion w/both parents present. They needed to be told because you don't know when he's going to decide to fly the coop.
Take care of yourself. Keep the focus on you, your children and your finances.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
123Gwen and Job - Thanks for the guiding words. With all the crazy, sometimes you need to know your doing something right. My inner voice tells me everything is going to be ok for me and children.
The kids are all doing better today. I wanted them to know before they broke up for Easter Break as they are off 4 weeks. They all went to the last day of school today and were able to have a routine with friends without any academic pressures. The older ones decided to go to friend's houses after school (I think they are trying to avoid sitch). Kids are all being very supportive of each other, I know I have done something right.
H is festering in anger over telling the children. I gave him the full opportunity to lead the discussion; however he wouldn't bring it up. Sitting with H today and feeling his anger, I really want to try to "fix" this situation but realise that I cannot as I have no control. He needs to learn to stand alone and figure out what is going to give him true happiness before we could work.
I reminded the children that H has been absent most of past 3 years and maybe that was a rehearsal for what is to come. When H was traveling so much I hated doing family things w/o him, so often would do individual things. I have realised that we ARE a family without H - We will survive.
Girls said they just want me to be happy. I told them I am going to be happy because I have a soul which sings (even if it is off key). Happiness/joy is one of core values. I want my kids to learn how to face adversity and rise above it!
Perhaps I am learning a few important life lessons thru this process as well.
I am leaving next week to take eldest on a holiday abroad to see friends. Anything I should prepare for in advance of leaving for a week?
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
As for "throwing H under the bus" - what about WASs throwing the LBS "under the bus" by claiming it's a mutual decision to divorce? That just leaves the LBS as an equal target of the kids' anger - unfairly so. I think you can be politic about how you say it, but I think basically it is reasonable to be clear who is the party that wants the divorce and who is the party that doesn't.
Quote:
I want my kids to learn how to face adversity and rise above it!
Hear hear! The best thing you can do is model a good example of resilience for your kids. If you are devastated and depressed, they will be even more afraid of what is happening. If you can pull yourself together and demonstrate positive change and resilience, they will be more positive. My adult children (who were teens/early 20's when my H left) tell me now that they admire the way I picked up the pieces and went on. They're proud of their rockin' mom who learned to play the drums and now plays in a band!
AS for leaving for a week with your eldest - not to be paranoid, but I would first copy any and all important financial papers (tax returns etc.). Put your copies in a safe place. Put any personal valuables like jewelry in a safe place. Move half of any savings accounts to a separate bank account in your name. (You may want to get legal advice on this). Maybe take the other kids' passports with you if you have any fears of him abducting the kids.
Basically, protect yourself against any retaliatory action on the part of your H.
Then just stick to the high road. Tell him you understand he feels he needs this divorce and this move. Tell him you're not going to stand in the way, although you wish he would work to repair the marriage instead. Tell him you will not badmouth him to the kids and you will do what you can to help maintain his relationship with them.
And, dress up really HOT when you are going to the airport for this trip lolol. Let him wonder who you might meet while you're gone. They seem to think we'll always be there waiting for them as "Plan B", sometimes being hit with reality can wake them up.
One more thing --- I wish I could tell you that H moving far away will take you out of limbo land. It won't unfortunately. In many ways life is easier because you have the home, the friends, the family you created and people generally don't ask questions. It is a blessing but you still live in the land of in between no matter where they are and if you've even talked to them. Not being married is something you have to choose and I have no idea how you get to that place.
I feel the same. Could not said it better. It’s been more than 2 ½ years for me. It seems like I’m moving from outside. But inside, I have this weird feeling that I’m still married.
Dejavu, I’m glad your kids are doing better. I agree with others that there is no right time and way to tell them about their father’s decision to leave.
M:50 H:52 S28 (my S from previous marriage) M:17 + 3 BD: 06/12 S: 06/12 - H works in another state
To add to kml's suggestions about going away, I would also take photos of every room in the house so that you will have a nice photo record of what was there prior to your trip. You would be amazed at what these crisis people move from the home when you aren't around.
I do hope that you can relax and enjoy your time away.
There has been a 24" box sitting in my front hall since moved in to our renovated home in 2012. I have not known what do with the contents, so it has sat there. I started overlooking it, ignoring it, avoiding it. This week I finally addressed the box (which contained nothing significant - candles and candlesticks) and I knew immediately where to put them. So now the box has been emptied and removed. It feels so good to not have to look at that box any more!
This really did seem like a metaphor for what I am going thru emotionally.
I am now getting ready to go to the other side of the world for a week! I cannot wait for the adventure. My H gave up on adventures and vacations years ago. I have really missed the emotionally excitement of looking forward to a trip.
Last edited by dejavu2; 03/22/1508:22 AM.
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
I am am actually on vacation but my head is spinning.
Finally spoke with H on day 5 of vacation. We have a ton of stuff going on as trying to get house ready for market, kids stuff, etc... He tells me he is leaving the morning after I return to go to US for interviews, his schedule is fluid but he should be home in about 2 weeks. I suggested he find someplace else to live when he returns, pointing out the small guest cottage on our property. He throws a fit and says maybe he wIll stay in the US. Why is he being stubborn about living in the main house? It feels like the kids and I cant start to heal. Do I have to wait for him to have a plan on his life before he moves out?! I feel like we are an emotional convienence for him. He is still insisting that he wants a divorce bc he is tired of the conflict and he isn't happy.
He has taken 5 of life's biggest stresses and decided to do them all at once -- lost job, finding new job, selling house, moving abroad and a divorce. He is very stressed and short tempered with me. Every conversation w have is a fight -- he feels like I am telling him what a failure he is (which I am not) -- I just need to sort plans and I am asking him for accountability.
What do you suggest?!
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
I would suggest that you continue on w/your life and do the things that you need to do to get the house reading for market and begin packing up things that you don't use. It's a good time to also get rid of things that you haven't used in about 3 years. Packing and tossing is a good way to alleviate the stressors in your life.
As for you h...I wouldn't say another word to him about where he's going to live upon his return. Things can change on a dime and right now, his focus is on the US. If he's throwing a tantrum, walk away, no more discussion. In his own way, he wants you to ask questions about the US so that he can shoot you down. He's like a teething baby and doesn't know what to do about the pain he's in. Leave him to it.
No, you don't have to wait until he has a plan and moves out. He's trying to be difficult right now...don't step into the trap. Leave him to it.
You have a couple of weeks before the 2 yr old returns. Enjoy some peace and quiet while he's gone.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Back from a memorable holiday! I am so glad I took my DD1 to see Hong Kong and spend quality time with some long time friends. H has refused to take me on holiday for the past 5 years. I really have missed getting in to another culture with the different sights, sounds and smells. I know my relationship is completely broke; but it was interesting spending several days around a couple who actually support each other and communicate. They have been together 20+ years and are a great really example of a healthy relationship.
DH decided he wanted to have a special family dinner when we got back. So, I arrived home at 7p to this enormous early-Easter feast (complete with lots of side dishes and lamb prepared 2 different ways) then by 4:30a he was off to the airport to leave for the US. I think this his way of displacing his guilt for leaving. He is leaving his plans for returning very open, however told the kids he would be back in 2 weeks.
I have been doing a lot of reading about narcissism and "passive aggression". After 20 years of being with him, I am finally smacked with the realisation that he is a Passive Aggressive workaholic - it is finally emotionally starting to fall in to place and explain all the craziness! For years I have been trying to earn his attention and trying to be who I thought he wanted. I had dismissed his lack of emotions due to him being an introvert. However, I now realise his mindset has nothing to do with me - I could never fulfill him. He has many passive aggressive tendencies and always has. He withholds of all his emotions - happiness, fear, love, anger, etc. He has no close friends; just work acquaintances as he is emotionally distant to everyone. His PA tendencies became exaggerated and emotionally unmanageable 3 years ago. I don't think he is going to come back. I may always want more from him emotionally than he is able to give as he is not capable of giving it to himself.
Although I am logically starting to understand all this.... I still awoke this AM with a slight disappointment/emptiness ... however, I need to remember I do "have it all" and he has nothing - I have a life time of love from 3 wonderful children who think I am very special. I am blessed with happiness around me. I have all the material goods I need and wonderful friends -- he just took a small suitcase and left to live a life on the road without attachments or commitments.
This week I went to the initial meeting with the mediator. H did his when I was gone. Interestingly, mediation is only an option as long as we are both willing to be in the same room. So H idea of "doing it over the phone" isn't going to work. I'll let him figure that one out. As his main goal is to get job and move back to the US asap, I really question how much time/energy he is going to have to be sorting out divorce details anyway whether thru a mediator or lawyers. Typically when he starts a new job, he puts in 60+ hrs a week, travels tons and has a company 100-day plan to get sorted. Seems like I may be in for a long drawn out divorce process which is typical of a PA.
I'm taking daughters to compete today. It is such a joy to watch them fulfill their dedication and commitment to a sport. I feel so proud that they are accomplishing their goals and making great memories.
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
Dejavu2 - So happy you had a wonderful holiday. Spending time away is food for the soul.
Our H's seems very similar so I can relate to your sitch. My H left for a job and OW but in less than a year has now quit that position and is taking another to live with OW. This job involves a lot of travel and that will probably help their R Because it will never be monotonous.
I used to think H was ambitious but now I think he just likes the high of new city, new job and new people. I also read about PA narcissism and H fits that description but maybe he is or was an introvert? For many years I was on a pedestal and so were our children but now we are off the radar.
I guess bottom line is that you are wise to understand things may be drawn out because you are not their focus.
The only advice I can give you is to be on your guard financially. Set up any protections you can as soon as you can. Once they leave and you are off the pedestal H may behave differently in that regard.
MLC is very real for this type of personality. My H never had close friends either. The one he does have has been ignored as well. He took very little and almost a year later he has not returned to see his children.
Isorry for the hijack. I hope your H gets to the U.S. and starts to understand that wherever you go there you are. Hopefully he'll look in the mirror and do the work towards R. Hang in there. You are doing great.
M:25 years at BD w/ 2 daughters BD: 5/14 Separated 6/14 - H moved cross country w/OW D Final 9/17
“I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it.” ― Maya Angelou
Welcome back! I'm glad that you and the children had a wonderful time in Hong Kong. It always does us a world of good to get away from the mlc madness for a while. It's funny how they will do things to smooth the way for them to either leave us or get us to "soften" up to their ideas. Well, he certainly pulled out all of the stops on the pre-Easter meal and then poof! Off he went. The dinner was to appease his guilt for what he was about to do, i.e., run away to the US. So, he's gone for about two weeks...he may or may not return in that time period, but the one single bag doesn't surprise me. They tend to leave w/just a few pieces of clothing and think that they have it all together. Time will tell as to whether he returns during that time period or not...but while he's gone, you will have some time to think about what you need to do to ensure that you and your children are financially set. Keep a close eye on the bills and be sure you speak to someone about the separation that is going to be coming your way because of his "need" to be back in the US.
I'm glad to see that you've read up on narcissism and passive aggression. I see that after reading up on these personality traits that things are starting to "click" for you. PA people will drive you insane because you never know what they are thinking and they do not tell you how they feel and yes, they aren't capable of being emotionally involved w/someone for fear of being hurt. PA is a "learned" behavior from childhood and it is very frustrating dealing w/someone who has this personality trait.
I do hope your daughters do well today. You have a lot to be proud of and that's not just being a mother, but being the wonderful person that you are.
Continue to keep the focus on you and your children.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Having a wonderful spring break with the kids and not missing H. It is nice to have some peace in the house. I have actually started eating like normal although my sleep is still a little screwed up from jet-leg.
H called yesterday to speak with the kids and brought me up-to-date with his interviews, although typically asked very little about my life. He commented that he is looking forward to coming home next week. My heart slightly sank as it is back to the emotional roller coaster. I was hoping to get an extra bedroom nicely sorted for him so he could have his space. However, I have no clue where his head is. I'm coming to the conclusion that if he is still on the path to a divorce than the extra bedroom is where he should be. I need my space away from his emotions and rejection. I'm considering getting a tv put in the main bedroom as I am not "allowed" to watch tv with him of an evening (he wants his space and gets very annoyed). His returning is like a dark cloud coming back. The hard part for me is I have no idea how long he is coming back for. It seems he is still viewing this as his "home base" until he ready to jump to another life.
We got a new closet room installed this week (a project which never got finished from the remodel). It is great to see projects done. D15 and I were putting my stuff into the closet and I mentioned doing H stuff. Her comment was "leave it for him to do, he's going to have to learn to do stuff on this own sometime". (wow)
I admit I have enabled his emotions. I have sorted his life. I have given him the direction and support he needed to be successful in his career. It will be interesting to see if he has it in himself to build a life and home on his own. Once he officially moves out, I predict there will quickly be an OW to play the role of secretary, housekeeper etc...
I am no longer certain about "waiting" for him as I have been waiting for 3 years and he shows no sign of emotionally coming back to the relationship. I can no longer look for little signs that he is interested in me, nor take his rejection. Waiting has killed my self-esteem and caused tremendous self-doubt. However, I am not comfortable with filing for divorce right now either (as I really would like us to R). I feel very torn so I will continue to focus on my goals and GAL.
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
Spoke with H again, I have been careful not to mention our relationship, keeping talk focused on kids, facts and his job search process. I deviated and asked him if he was having a good time. He responded 'let's talk about it when I get home'. I don't think he is interested in sorting things out with me, as he still sounds very down & miserable. Not enjoying his time away, but I could be wrong. I was surprised that me even inquiring about his happiness was an emotional bridge too close for him.
I would love for him to find his happiness and personal passions again, but this is his journey. I'm no longer facilitating.
I do wonder if his MLC is coming thru in his interviews. I think once he gets his head together, he will get a job.
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
Mlcers have a way of wearing different masks around people. Right now, you'll see the unhappy, miserable mask. To the interviewer, he may have come across as self assured and ready to tackle any job that is offered to him. It's difficult to say how he was around the parties interviewing him.
You are doing the right thing by keeping the conversations centered around the children. He's very sensitive right now about his job search and his own personal life. He may not share much of what transpired during this trip...but then again, he may share what he perceives as his "happy" so that you think it's got it together. If and when he returns home and wants to discuss things, listen closely. If he asks for advice, give it to him.
Continue to keep the focus on you and your children.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
H arrived home on Tuesday AM, before I had a chance to get a bedroom set up for him. He isn't interested in moving to a different bedroom.
He came back very different than he left. For the first time in a couple of years he isn't stressed or grumpy -- I don't feel the anger from him. His spirit is happy and peaceful. He is engaging with the kids and helpful around the house. Today he even took care of getting his driver's license renewed (almost a week before old one expired). He has been very complimentary and "trying" to rectify my old complaints (e.g. he doesn't finish projects).
I am slightly confused. He is acting like nothing happened. I haven't forced a R talk as he came home with the flu and jet-legged. I did tell him that is he wasn't certain he wanted a D than we should wait on mediation. Without a job or any certainty where he is going to live there are too many unknowns. Also, the sessions cost around $350/hour. Feels like we could burn a lot of cash without a lot of agreements. He seemed to agree with the logic.
I have made some decisions about my/children's life. I want to move back the USA in 2016 (unless still married and he has a career here). I really want kids to experience a bit of high school and attend university in the USA. I would focus on the Eastern seaboard or CO, as my kids sports are best served there. I told H my plans and he listened. He is hoping to get an offer from a company in AZ, however I told him that I didn't think it would be a good fit for me/children. He agreed as well.
We are still trying to get house ready to put on the market -- I am amazed at how much energy that takes. Flowers planted today. Still have to get painter in and new carpets for 1 room. H asked if I still wanted to sell the house - YES, I do! He agreed. It could take us a while to get house sold, so better to get marketing it sooner than later. IF we are lucky and sell it in the next 6 mos, then we will make decisions. I am happy to rent until moving back to the USA.
Today, H agreed to go for a hike with another couple about our age. They just returned from an expat assignment and husband is unemployed too. We all actually had a nice time. H and other H are going to meet up for a drink next week. Before the walk, H said he felt all alone with his problems; however I know of 5 other Hs going thru various versions. I reminded him that his own father was forced to changed careers at about this age (so did my father). Books and hollywood don't show this side of life too often (usually only the man who has gone off the deep-end in midlife) -- I assured him that this is a normal phase!
It feels good to have a plan and the ability to implement it. I know H needs/wants a career. I want H to feel fulfilled in his life; however I want to be fulfilled also!
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
He arrived from his trip wanting to pretend that everything was ok. He seems much happier than he has for the past 3 years. He has been making an effort with small things and actually taking some initiative with getting the house ready to be sold.
Last week H finally went out with friends for a drink - first time in 3 years he has done this while being at home. A nice change to him sitting home watching tv or going to play tennis. I am seeing him start to move a bit emotionally. Which gave me a bit of hope. However, when speaking with him about where our relationship stands - he is still uncertain what he wants. He said he doesn't know if he can be happy in a relationship with me - I suggest happiness comes from within.
He has now left again for 3 weeks to more interviews in the US, but is planning on coming back. He made a mess of it with the girls before he left. He insisted to me that he had told the children he was leaving; however upon asking them -- they knew nothing about it. He did however tell our son. Oldest is very disappointed that he isn't telling her what is going on. The kids and I all want to know where we stand with him.
He said he wants to take the time while away and make decisions about his future and our relationship. I am not sure what he has been doing for the past 6 mos.... but hopefully he will come to an answer with some peace.
I have enjoyed spending time with emotionally some healthy people who have emotionally healthy relationships. I am left pondering big questions about my own life and future:
- is this really a midlife crisis or has he ever been able to meet my needs emotionally?
- why did I choose a man who was so emotionally unavailable? (what am I avoiding in my own life)?
- am I willing to wait for a man who may never meet my emotional needs?
After lots of reading, I am convinced that H is either passive-aggressive, covert narcissist or has been wired to avoid emotional situations. He doesn't emotionally connect with anyone. I think I have been waiting 20 years for him to be more emotionally available to me. Over the years I have made lots of excuses for his lack of ability to emotionally connect and life has brought us lots of distractions. Before his MLC 3 yrs ago, I would get some of his time/attention but not his emotions. When MLC hit - he quit giving me his time/attention -- so no longer got anything from him.
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
I am wondering why I am trying to hold the family together for the children when H seems to be focused on making decisions which would not take in to account the kids needs.
I understand if he wants to divorce me, but it hurts so much to see how he is overlooking and excluding the kids. Eldest daughter said she feels like dad has never been there for her most of her life (she's right.). Why am I trying to be the glue when he makes no effort to make the children/family a priority in his life. What am I holding together?
Last edited by dejavu2; 05/20/1507:55 PM.
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
What are you doing to change yourself? I ask that not to blame but to keep the focus on the only person in this situation that you can affect, YOU.
And when someone says "not much has changed" the normal reaction here is to suggest you get a mirror out and look at the only person you can change; and btw,
embrace this! Don't shy from it or get defensive. IT's empowering to know you are NOT powerless in this.
Take charge of your life and prove the part about "happiness comes from within" b/c the tone of your posts and the title of your thread indicate the opposite.
You are putting YOUR happiness (and to an extent, modeling that for your kids) all in his hands.
Why give him all that power? What would you prefer modeling for your kids?
He arrived from his trip wanting to pretend that everything was ok. He seems much happier than he has for the past 3 years. He has been making an effort with small things and actually taking some initiative with getting the house ready to be sold.
Last week H finally went out with friends for a drink - first time in 3 years he has done this while being at home. A nice change to him sitting home watching tv or going to play tennis. ALL of this^^ is about him and what HE is doing/thinking acting like. Where are you in this?
I am seeing him start to move a bit emotionally. Which gave me a bit of hope. However, when speaking with him about where our relationship stands
Why would you bring up R talk? Nothing cools a relationship like taking its temperature. If you want to build on conflict free times, then do that. Don't push for more or he'll back way off.
Have you read the Div Busting book(s)? How about those 37/40 "Rules" that Sandi assembled?
- he is still uncertain what he wants. He said he doesn't know if he can be happy in a relationship with me - I suggest happiness comes from within.
Instead of arguing him back into the marriage, which fails every single time AND usually also pushes them away (Cheeseless tunnels)
why not stop all the resistance? ("That which we resist, persists") Why not say that YOU don't know if you can be happy with someone so unhappy?
That YOU "have some thinking to do"?
He has now left again for 3 weeks to more interviews in the US, but is planning on coming back. He made a mess of it with the girls before he left. He insisted to me that he had told the children he was leaving; however upon asking them -- they knew nothing about it. He did however tell our son. Oldest is very disappointed that he isn't telling her what is going on. The kids and I all want to know where we stand with him. Wow, please Stop this needlessly painful dynamic. It's your job to reassure them that they are loved and won't be tossed out in the streets , no matter what HE does or says. You're the sane parent, not a victim.
He said he wants to take the time while away and make decisions about his future and our relationship. I am not sure what he has been doing for the past 6 mos.... but hopefully he will come to an answer with some peace.
I have enjoyed spending time with emotionally some healthy people who have emotionally healthy relationships. I am left pondering big questions about my own life and future: - is this really a midlife crisis or has he ever been able to meet my needs emotionally? I submit that the label "Mid Life Crisis" is not helpful to you. It's serving to delay your taking charge of your life, AND it's under the mistaken belief (not empirically supported anyhow) that a MLC label makes a walk away spouse more likely to return.
Most don't return. Also, the "MLC" label often deflects the LBSer away from changes they need to make within,
b/c they instead keep their focus on the person whom they have NO control over, their spouse. You have been going thru whatever this is, for years now. What, specifically are you waiting for?
Remember this: No WAS (or MLCer) returns to a marriage they left....ever...UNLESS
they believe that the marriage can be better/different than before.
So what are you doing to demonstrate that improvement/difference?
The guilting from you or the kids (even the unintentional parts) will only serve to push him farther away.
Most people convert shame into blame. That's why the guilt piece fails.
- why did I choose a man who was so emotionally unavailable? (what am I avoiding in my own life)? - am I willing to wait for a man who may never meet my emotional needs?
Why not Find people in your life who CAN meet your emotional needs and go from there? Why "wait" for anyone. Ever? Life is too short for that. No, I'm not saying you must give up or date.
I AM saying that "waiting" for him will only keep you stuck and it's not going to attract him back anyhow.
After lots of reading, I am convinced that H is either passive-aggressive, covert narcissist or has been wired to avoid emotional situations. He doesn't emotionally connect with anyone. How's your own work going? I'm not criticizing you. I am redirecting your focus. This is ALL about him! Time to put your focus on and only on, YOU.
I think I have been waiting 20 years for him to be more emotionally available to me. That is tragic. And it's self inflicted, which sort of compounds the tragedy.
The great news is that you can change this! Today!
Over the years I have made lots of excuses
excuses for what? Look inward, where the real journey in life is. And dig deep.
"made lots of excuses....FOR not taking charge of your own happiness, while telling him to do so? For not changing the dynamic in the marriage?
For not putting your efforts into changing the one person you can change?
for his lack of ability to emotionally connect and life has brought us lots of distractions. Before his MLC 3 yrs ago, I would get some of his time/attention but not his emotions. When MLC hit - he quit giving me his time/attention -- so no longer got anything from him.
So your needs have gone unmet for many years. And so what makes you think his endless searching externally, will suddenly make him something he's never been?
Isn't it time for you to choose a new, different course of action?
What would that look like?
What would you most like to teach your children, given the situation?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
[quote=dejavu2]Really struggling tonight. H has got interest from a company 5,000 miles away(8 hr time diff). How can he expect to be a part of kids lives? (Note he is talking to some companies which would only be 5hr time zone diff). Divorce me - fine! But walking out on the children stinks! He is blaming me that I won't move to US so that kids can be near him.
I refuse to take the kids away from the only life they know and their friends on the chance he will spend time with them when not too busy traveling with work.
are there NO other advantages to moving to the US? Think about that. The set up of the family life is such that his high income is like a golden handcuff
and the geographical (and time zones!!) difference sound to me like a family structured for failure.
We were a military family so I'm quite familiar with moves and living abroad. But h's deployments were few & far between, thank God. There was always an end in sight as it was not a modus operandi.
Not a "life style" for us. Meaning, we were usually together - but in a new place. I joined the military myself after awhile b/c if you can't beat 'em, join 'em".
Had to resign when they could not keep us together any longer. Keeping the family together was key.
In some ways you must congratulate yourself on staying married so long when he's only around 4-6 days a month? Good grief, how could you stay connected that way?
My h's last deployment to the middle East was estranging in so many ways. A lot happened that he was not a part of and he went thru a lot that I was not a part of.
VERY dangerous to marriages. And this was after we reconciled and were in a good strong place in our marriage.
Are you American? If so, won't the kids have some extended family around by moving back? And won't you have more emotional support in America?
I know that child support is a lot easier to enforce if you're in the same country.
Seems to me that the marriage has one consistently big underlying problem, which is that he's far away. This has to have been working for you, b/c you don't seem to mind him being "Just 5 time zones away".
Seems to me if you could show some willingness to change that underlying problem, it would help. What's stopping you from movement in any direction? I mean, it sounds as if you are saying "If this, THEN I'll be willing to ---" and so you want him to make the first step, etc.
But he's not here trying to save the marriage; you are. So you have to take the first step and the second, and maybe the next 1000...
Change is coming to your family anyhow, why not direct it as best you can?
He found very little time over the past 3 yrs to spend with them as work is a huge identity point for him. Yes he loves his work, so you said. But let's be careful to avoid glossing over actions that are in effect, punitive.
There's a good chance he wants to be closer to the kids than he is. A very good chance. You've seen some changes in him already.
Maybe if you back off and then you're not there to enable or direct the father/child contact, he'll take more of a role in doing so.
When I backed off from forcing h and the kids to interact on MY schedule or what I perceived to be theirs, h stepped up to the plate. But there was a lag time during which he expected me to continue doing it and I wasn't. I was very tempted to resume my formal level of "controlling interference" (which it was, in actuality)
Then it took time for him to process that, without anger, and then some more time for him to step up to the plate. But it did happen. -- I realise that he is in the selfish man-child phase but making decisions which take him out of his children's lives is just wrong. You have not been on this site for long, though your h has been half way out of the marriage for some time.
My comment is NOT intended as a criticism but a reminder...here it is.
How does making him "wrong" help YOU? It doesn't. It does 2 harmful things
1) it keeps you stuck in your anger at him and
2) keeps your focus on HIM instead of you...
You need to start YOUR Journey and not worry about his.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Thanks 25yMLC. I agree with much of your perspective. I know my life has many geographic confusions. 6 mos after we started dating he started traveling for work always saying he wanted to be home more. I had always believed the excuse of work hoping that day would come. However, each job he takes seems to take him away from home. He rolls in/out jobs in a 2-3 yr cycle. We moved from the U.S. 11 yrs ago (due to his job). For the past 3 years he was working/living less than 2 hours away - I suggested we move to keep family together, but he wasn't interested. He never came home for special events in my life or children's. He is consumed with success in the office. I always believed he wanted a life at home, but his actions never match his words. He has been off work for the past 6 mos and has spent most of his time playing tennis and watching tv. He engages with the children on his terms only.
I am ok with my transitioning life without him, just sad for the children. My life has moved on with friends & laughter meanwhile trying to understand WHY I have put up with his PA behaviour for so long, what am I getting out of this? How do I not repeat this again? I don't expect him to change as he is running from himself not me or the kids. Part of me hopes he changes towards the children, but guess I need to realise he can't/won't. He uses chaos to keep me emotionally attached. There is always some big change/issue which needs my attention therefore unable to walk-away from him. (Major relocations, kids, new jobs... Potential new jobs...)
I have my plan which is to move back to the East coast with the children in Summer 2016. It would be much better for all if he also had a job on the East coast. As an ex-wife I no longer have to chase him or his job. There are pros/cons to going back to the U.S. Having lived a "local" life rather than an expat live, the kids actually feel more local than American. We have not been back to the U.S. with kids since 2009. But I do feel the pull get daughters' back even if for part of HS experience.
I have always believed that kids need both parents - both have an important role in building self-worth. However now pondering - is he actually positively contributing to building their self-esteem or is this just my version of a "happily ever after..."
Actually getting divorced where we are would be more adventageous for me from time and money. We can just get on with it. Waiting until he has a job and we move back ..... would add tons of time - we have no connections to any state and each state has different laws. Feels odd to be filing for divorce when he doesn't want to move out of my bedroom. I am hoping he gets direction on the job search and decides to set up his life.
Last edited by dejavu2; 05/20/1510:09 PM.
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
I guess I am mad at myself and at H. I am mad at myself that I have believed in the dream of being a family and that he wanted the same thing. I'm mad at him for misrepresenting his desires to me and being emotionally unavailable. This journey has made me realize that he is emotionally unavailable for himself.
It has been a tough few week - this week was our 19yr wedding anniversary. All H could say was "I'm sorry I'm putting you threw this". On Friday night we were robbed. They knew what they wanted and took the girls riding stuff. Not only was it a big financial loss, it was also very personal feeling as it was my children's stuff. Trying to sell one of our long time ponies - so many great memories with him/daughter. She has a room of ribbons & trophies. I am also trying to get curtains finished to get house on market by June 1 to be sold. And this week all 3 kids are showing signs of stress.
I'm mad that I would like a partner to share life's challenges and accomplishments but I chose the wrong person and it has taken me 19 years to realize it!
Last edited by dejavu2; 05/21/1504:53 AM.
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
Btw - I have always been willing to follow H jobs around, it has been him that hasn't wanted the family near him. When the kids were babies we were living on East Coast and he was working on west coast for 2 years near several of my closest friends from university. I begged him to move there - wouldn't do it. Every job afar, I have offered and suggested as being a family unit is very important to me. I spent one summer looking at schools/houses in Amsterdam only to have him decide he didn't want to move us. This is the first time that I am digging my heels in and saying I won't follow him to certain places, If kids were thru HS, I would follow him anywhere - I love a good adventure.
I now realise his lack of interest in having the family around is because it relinquishes him from emotional responsibility as he hides behind his corporate responsibilities.
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
I am so sorry to read that you were robbed. It sounds like the individual(s) who robbed you had been in your home previously or been round the girls when they were out riding. I hope you informed the police of the robbery and provided some photos of the stuff that was taken. I'm sure your girls were very upset by this because this is another blow on top of everything else.
What type of curtains are you making? Are you making curtains for each and every room? I'm sure they will look beautiful and will help give the room a warm and welcoming feeling.
Get that anger out there, front and center. Let it all out, even if you have to beat the stuffings out of a pillow. You want to get rid of that anger before it affects your health.
As for your h, I'm so sorry he's not there emotionally to help you and to share life's challenges and accomplishments. He's missed out on a lot of memorable times and once they are over and done with, he can't have them recreated. It is his loss and one day, he just might realize that.
Please take care of yourself. You've got a lot going on in the next few weeks. If, at all possible, take a few me breaks to recharge your battery. Okay?
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Btw - I have always been willing to follow H jobs around, it has been him that hasn't wanted the family near him. When the kids were babies we were living on East Coast and he was working on west coast for 2 years near several of my closest friends from university. I begged him to move there - wouldn't do it. So in terms of your h's behavior and choices, this is Not really something new. It has been going on for most/all of the m. I can see how that would be devastating to realize, in retrospect. But you must have had some pay off for it to have worked for you for so long.
Anyhow, I think the "MLC" label is over used and misunderstood (i.e. many LBSers assume inaccurately that if it is anMLC it means they are more likely to return to the m, but there is no empirical data supporting that.
EVEN if there were, a hallmark of a true MLC is that the behaviors are NEW and "out of character" for the spouse.
Every job afar, I have offered and suggested as being a family unit is very important to me. I spent one summer looking at schools/houses in Amsterdam only to have him decide he didn't want to move us. Yes it seems to be a pattern for him.
This is the first time that I am digging my heels in and saying I won't follow him to certain places, If kids were thru HS, I would follow him anywhere - I love a good adventure. So in a way it's YOU that has changed the dynamic. And it's only b/c the kids are in HS, correct?
I now realise his lack of interest in having the family around is because it relinquishes him from emotional responsibility as he hides behind his corporate responsibilities.
I really don't believe the psycho analysis is helping you and it may not be accurate anyhow. It serves no good purpose imo. It's a blame game and it's ironic b/c for the length of your m, things were fine this way.
Is it the kids high school years AND OR his reluctance to commit to you, that is the problem?
Maybe the only issue is, what will YOU do, given that your h continues to want part time fatherhood?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Dejavu2- In my case, looking back and reflecting was helpful in making decisions on how to move forward. It really was damaging if I stayed in that mode for too long.
I am not sure how I feel about the MLC label but in our case I can say, without reservation, my H's entire value system shifted and his thinking changed overnight. He never lied before and with such ease because he was justifying every decision in such a bizarre fashion. His mother has remarked on how even his voice has changed. I could go on but the way he has abandoned me, the girls and even the family dog is very tragic. I have no doubt he is a man in crisis.
What do you want for your marriage and for yourself?
M:25 years at BD w/ 2 daughters BD: 5/14 Separated 6/14 - H moved cross country w/OW D Final 9/17
“I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it.” ― Maya Angelou
Dejavu2- In my case, looking back and reflecting was helpful in making decisions on how to move forward. It really was damaging if I stayed in that mode for too long.
I am not sure how I feel about the MLC label but in our case I can say, without reservation, my H's entire value system shifted and his thinking changed overnight.
FTR, I don't dismiss the MLC label out of hand. Sometimes it's accurate.
Indeed, this^^^"never" before IS significant to me. And in my h's case, most of it was radically different than before. Like suddenly not paying any bills, whereas he used to pay ahead of time and never, ever missed one.
I just strongly caution those who grasp at it 1) for too long, b/c it's keeping them stuck
and or 2) who deflect away from their own work and or
3) who keep "asking" why, and or blaming the "selfish/wrong/crazy" spouse,
and eventually wallowing in anger that morphs into bitterness.
Last but not least, it only takes a day or two to realize that IF the spouse is in a MLC
the question for the LBS is the same: What am I going to do, now?
Because we are all we control. The more we try to diagnose our spouse the less work we are doing in our own lives. The real person to ask "why?" of, may be ourselves.
Why are we still focussed on someone else,
and NOT on living our lives with clarity and intention.
He never lied before and with such ease because he was justifying every decision in such a bizarre fashion. His mother has remarked on how even his voice has changed. I could go on but the way he has abandoned me, the girls and even the family dog is very tragic. I have no doubt he is a man in crisis. What do you want for your marriage and for yourself?
Forgive me for quibbling, but the first part of this^^ question is probably no longer relevant. This has been going on for 3 years, or more, and the more time that passes the more it's clear her needs have gone unmet for literally decades.
One thing that still gnaws at me is the shock I continue to feel about men who leave their entire families behind and SEEM to be "okay" about it...I mean, HOW do they do that?? I could wonder that the rest of my life but fortunately I'm not married to a man who is like that. Still, those who do it really do freak me out.
SOooo
Why not focus on what you can create for the rest of your life, going "From this day forward"?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
25yearsmlc - perhaps the MLC is used too frequently, I have no idea as I am not a psychologist, just a woman looking for answers. Using the MLC label only seems to be a big problem when people use it as an excuse rather than a wake-up call.
Yes, there has been a trend which I accepted in the marriage over the years because I thought things were going to change. I believed him. He always worked afar, but was still emotionally engaged with family. Over the years, we seemed to hit patterns of chaos which would drive us together (birth of children, relocations, health issues). However, when we had many stresses in 2012, rather than face them with me - he lied and emotionally ran away. He completely shut down emotionally on me, the kids, his friends and himself. I waited and blamed myself - now that he has the time, he is slowly coming back to life emotionally - I'm not a psychologist to decide if he is in a MLC, but I DO know that was my wake up call.
I have learned tons thru this process.
So perhaps I should be posting on different board rather than MLC board, but have found a connection to many of the journeys and resources here.
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
accidentally hit submit and then took too long to edit post....
25yearsmlc - I am not sure if your quibbling is to make me think or trying to get me off the MLC board, but have found a connection to many of the journeys here. I am very grateful for direction and resources which have provided explanations and thought-provoking journeys. Perhaps the MLC is used too frequently, I have no idea as I am not a psychologist, just a woman looking for answers. Using the MLC label only seems to be a big problem when people use it as an excuse rather than a wake-up call.
I have learned tons thru this process! I have accepted behaviours from H that most emotionally healthy people would have flagged and have the sense to leave the relationship. I realise that much of this goes back to issues in my childhood where my emotional needs were not met due to a tragedy. I have developed a greater understanding of how I got to this emotional spot ... now I must decide WHAT I am going to do about it. This answer is not as obvious - as H is going thru a period of emotional enlightenment as well. What I am trying to decide - is H showing true emotional growth which will lead to a deeper connection or just another delay tactic to keep me on the emotional hook.
Job - I am making 6 sets of curtains/roman blinds for the house - 2 sets are for windows which are 14' wide x 10' long! I find it hard to concentrate on logical tasks when I am in emotional meandering, so curtains are not getting done as fast I would like.
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
Hi, I am not a therapist either, but even if there is a pre-existing pattern in a marriage, we are the experts in whether something has radically changed .
I think what you are saying makes perfect sense - there was a pattern of being apart more than you liked but which in some way suited your h and you too - or at least you were able to tolerate it. Then it changed. Looking back it is easy to say 'there was always disengagement' but there was also engagement. Now there isn't.
In my experience MLCers disengage from all they once loved - even if it was in their own odd way!
dejavu 2 - don't let anyone make you feel like you should not be here. We are all in the same boat - our s have left us and we are looking for support, advice and answers. I dont think it matters which forum you are on, as long as you are getting those things and are benefitting from it.
I really identify with what you are saying that this process has changed you and developed you to have a better understanding of your own issues - its a hard process that if we face head on it can change our lives for the better, you sound like you have really made the most of it. I commend you.
Only your h knows what is going on in his head, they become cryptic and do not give us enough clues to work it out - just focus on you for now, when your h is ready he will make his intentions clear I am sure.
accidentally hit submit and then took too long to edit post....
25yearsmlc - I am not sure if your quibbling is to make me think or trying to get me off the MLC board, but have found a connection to many of the journeys here. I guess it's hard to know what someone means with the written word, when we can't see their expression or hear their tone. A lot of miscommunication happens.
Maybe that's why you thought I was directing my "quibbling" comment to you, but I was referring to myself quibbling. And I was making the remark to 123gwen (sp?).
Also I didn't even notice that this was the 'MLC" forum when I came to your thread, Another veteran asked to visit your thread & so I did.
So no, I am not at all trying to get you off this board or the DB board or any board. I think you should post in the place you get the most helpful & numerous replies.
But maybe there's a bit of a lesson in this b/c I feel as if you did some mind reading here. Food for thought.
I am very grateful for direction and resources which have provided explanations and thought-provoking journeys. Perhaps the MLC is used too frequently,
if you read my words about the term "MLC", without making inferences, you'll see my reasons for saying it's used too often.
As I said before, somewhere around here I think,
regardless of whether the spouse is a WAH or a MLC H -- the course of action is the same for the LBS. That's a pretty crucial fact to keep in mind.
I have no idea as I am not a psychologist, just a woman looking for answers. Using the MLC label only seems to be a big problem when people use it as an excuse rather than a wake-up call.
I have learned tons thru this process! I have accepted behaviours from H that most emotionally healthy people would have flagged and have the sense to leave the relationship. I realise that much of this goes back to issues in my childhood where my emotional needs were not met due to a tragedy. I have developed a greater understanding of how I got to this emotional spot ... now I must decide WHAT I am going to do about it. This answer is not as obvious - as H is going thru a period of emotional enlightenment as well. What I am trying to decide - is H showing true emotional growth which will lead to a deeper connection or just another delay tactic to keep me on the emotional hook.
Read ^^ this to yourself, maybe out loud, a few times. See if anything nags at you.
Job - I am making 6 sets of curtains/roman blinds for the house - 2 sets are for windows which are 14' wide x 10' long! I find it hard to concentrate on logical tasks when I am in emotional meandering, so curtains are not getting done as fast I would like.
Sometimes these tasks are exactly what we need to get our minds/hearts OFF our spouses, so that we can finally begin to GAL and Detach.
Deejay, you've done a lot of personal work, I'm sure. Good for you. Still, you have been in the situation quite some time now & yes, I'd really like to hear about your GAL and 180s and Detachment work.
Sometimes it's good to get back to the DB basics.
Make sense?
Last edited by 25yearsmlc; 05/25/1510:20 AM.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I don't think it matters what board on this forum you post to as long as you find one that you connect to and can grow from the interaction.
From my own personal perspective I believe that people who immerse themselves in work or hobbies or sports are doing so to avoid growing up and facing the responsibilities that come with it.
I think in your husbands case he sees it catching up with him as the kids mature. Its hard raising kids today. there are so many outside influences that can run havoc over their lives. Your husband sees this and the added responsibilities and he seems to be running even harder away from them.
You can see this and have chosen to work on your self and grow as a mother along side your children's growth. Your husband is choosing not too. Its a shame and some day he me realize this and it may be too late.
Keep standing strong and working on your self. You have found out you are a strong person and can survive. Good things come to those who are patient and keep moving forward.
Twisting on Life's Rope Me53 W53 M20 D21 D19 D16 BD 2-2013 D final 1-2015 _________________________ "Dream about tomorrow, Live for today, Learn from yesterday"
I have been "stuck" for while in a situation which is unfulfilling. I originally stayed thinking he was going to change and be home more, then I stayed blaming myself, then I stayed as I spoke with many woman older than me who spoke about rough times in their marriage - so I thought this was normal, then I stayed because I couldn't bear to have my children forced to deal with a divorce. I realize I have given him far too much power in deciding if this marriage continues or not; however, I now feel like I have ticked all my boxes, been patient in the process. I have made it clear what I expect from our marriage. I will listen to his thoughts on continuing the marriage when he returns. If he is unwilling or unable to put the work in, than it is over.
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
I'd really like to hear about your GAL and 180s and Detachment work.
Regarding 180s and detachment, it is really difficult to act differently around someone when they are not around. For the past 3 years, I have basically been living like a single mom (but not dating!). Over the past 8 weeks, we have only been together 2 weeks of it. When he is home, I just leave him alone and go about my own schedule. He has had such walls to me that we don't substantially interact outside of kid items. When he is on the road, I don't initiate contact.
I am starting to call him on more of his emotional avoidance. He uses lack of time as an excuse to not get emotionally involved or stay too long in one spot (always the first to leave dinner parties or other gatherings). Never time to just enjoy life or stay too long in the moment - always some place else to be. I have been calling him on it, I use to be understanding, making excuses for him.
The biggest 180 I did this week was - a guy came to cut our lawn but it had been agreed he would use H tractor. We couldn't get tractor started, so rather than just sort it out..... I called H (even though it was 1 am his time) and woke him up, asking him to sort out this guy. Usually I just take care of everything, because that is what is expected. However, H had made the arrangement with lawn guy and I wanted him to own that process. (I don't usually do "damsel in distress" very well for stuff around the house.)
Another 180 - H decided he wanted to clean out the garage, although we still had a ton of other projects which needed time and attention. Rather than fuss at him, I just walked off and let him get on with it. Nearly drew blood from my tongue!
My main 180 is -- I no longer "care" about his opinion or seek his approval and it is MY opinion of myself which matters. I am also holding him a bit more accountable for what he says he is going to do but giving him space to get it done.
As far as GAL - I have always had a life. I fit in a handful of things around the children's busy schedules, but I do sit in most evenings because the kids need a parent there for dinner, homework and bedtime routine. When H was home, I made sure to get some extra nights out with girlfriends.
- I have started meditating listening to podcast called Headspace. Amazing how hard it is to calm the inner self and just sit there being.
- I run 4 days a week (but I have always run) and have starting training for a half-marathon in Sept. The upside is I have also lost about 15lbs - yipee!! I haven't run a half-marathon in 7 years, so very excited to be training again.
- I manage websites for several not-for-profits who all seem to be wanting things, sunshine has brought out out the project deadlines.
- Not my favorite way to GAL, but have also been getting closets cleaned out, carpets layed and curtains made for getting the house on the market and selling old toys on ebay. Slightly frustrating that these tasks are taking much longer than expected but can't put house on the market now until H returns as he needs to sign all the paperwork.
- I hosted a fantastic birthday lunch at a great restaurant for myself with 7 of the most wonderful friends. There was laughter and great conversation. We ended up having such a great time that lunch ended at 9p -- ooops! However, we usually do lunch once every 3 mos anyway.
The only new things I am doing to GAL....
- H and I use to attend various black tie fund-raisers, but he quit wanting to go about 4 years ago. So, I went to one in Feb and have another one in June. Time to go dress shopping.
- I took my daughter on holiday to Hong Kong and to see a girlfriend of mine. I am trying to get summer vacation planned with the children.
Saw a great quote which I have been embracing - "Maybe our girlfriend are our soul mates and guys are just people to have fun with!"
Last edited by dejavu2; 05/25/1508:54 PM.
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
LT, Beatrice & Lou - thank you for your kind words and support. I have found a lot of answers in this group. We each have a different story as our S each have a different journey. I spent the past 3 years killing my self-esteem b/c I thought I could fix it. This group has given me resources to finally understand that I didn't create this mess he is in and I can't fix it either. I do know that he has been given the gift of time to sort himself out. I am a liberated woman!!
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
DJ - I was thinking about your sitch when I read your last two posts. Do you still love your husband? Or has he exhausted your supplies of compassion and understanding with his self absorbed behaviors.
I think there are many many reasons to save marriages, [and I certainly don't believe all the 'in love' things that so many MLCers spout when they rush off with someone who is amazingly unsuited to them] but what would it take from your husband to rebuild yours? I know divorce isn't necessarily the answer, but do you actually want to wait out this crisis, assuming that your husband actually wants, and is able to do the work on himself.
My xh recognized he had, and still has, 'issues', but doesn't think they can be dealt with.
It is sad that in the words of teh Baa song, they wont take a chance on us!
B - Yes, I do still love him. In order for us to work, he is going to have to emotionally connect again with himself, the children and me. For me, it is not about living in the same house 7/24, but rather knowing that we have a connection and when we are together, making each other a priority and having fun. Up until 2012, we use to go out every Friday night and away overnight once a quarter - we always took time to reconnect and catch-up. I do love the independence that I have, however it comes with a price - lack emotional support on a day-to-day basis. He has not put boundaries on me, rather I put boundaries on myself because of the children. There are trade-offs in every relationship. I would also like him to be more supportive when there are items which he needs to engage with rather than pulling out his procrastination card.
In 2012 he ran away emotionally and became very passive-aggressive. I didn't understand and thought he was getting his emotional needs met elsewhere. We started MC in Nov 2014, where I was able to see that he ran away from everyone and everything including himself. Rather than try to fill his void with other people and false happiness like so many MLC, he built a wall around himself. He was all work -- all the time. After he was laid-off, I was hoping we would reconnect; however he emotionally put the walls up further proposing divorce. What I have now realized is as a child he was given no skills in emotionally coping. He learned to cope by denying he had emotional needs.
I am trying to sort in my mind emotionally what I think I WANT versus what I can COPE with. Emotionally open men make me uncomfortable. As a child, I felt abandoned after my mother died and then went on to equate love with abuse. It comes down to how much am I willing to address my childhood issues? I hate addressing childhood issues (put all those emotions in a box and have stored them away)..... but somehow I have ended up having to look thru the box anyway.
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
DJ - you sound amazingly self aware. I can see why given your childhood you have opted for the marriage and life-style you have done.
It isn't a lot of fun digging around in the locked trunks of our past. It isn't so much a question of changing ourselves (far too much emphasis put on that) so much as understanding ourselves and why we behave in certain recurring patterns.
I don't believe we can really change our essential ourselves but we can better understand the way we behave, how others behave, and learn to moderate our responses to others. We can act differently while remaining our essential selves, and get in touch with parts of ourself that we had lost touch with.
There are some terrible therapists out there, and there are some excellent ones. The more modern approach is more focused on getting the person functional - it is about the therapist working actively with the client.
I can't tell you how much I dreaded therapy, and how I value what it has given me. I haven't had a huge amount - small bursts from time to time, and I am now on therapist No 2, but on very good terms with therapist no 1. I just need different things now.
I am arrogant enough to suggest that you may have made certain compromises with yourself in order to go on operating, and that this is reflected in your choice of husband. However he is on his path and you are on yours, and as you know, we can only appeal to others, not change them.
Both my xh and I were damaged in different ways, but mine was emotional and could be dealt with. His was probably a deeper trauma, and I am not sure it will ever be resolved.
Thanks B, lots to think about in your note. I am sorry that your xH did not want to do his work when you were together. I have no clue whether my H will "rise to occasion" or not either.
Yes, I have gone thru other periods of emotional enlightenment - they are painful times, but there is a peace at the end of the process. I just keep hoping that I have packed that box away for the last time, only to have to dig thru it again years later.
I had a great conversation with eldest D today about what is going on. She has been angry about H. I told her that the greatest personal growth seems to be a result of emotional challenges. We don't tend to grow during the good times. Don't regret you had the challenge, look to learn your lesson and enjoy the next chapter. This process will happen many times life, thankfully there are many more good years than bad.
Over the past 5 years I have slowly put on weight until my wedding ring won't come off - there is a slight irony in this. I am working on myself both inside and out. I am hoping soon that I can choose whether the ring stays on or comes off for good.
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
[quote=dejavu2]--I have no clue whether my H will "rise to occasion" or not either. Do you have an internal timeline or deadline in mind, for making your own decision?
That can help a lot so that you know the limbo won't be eternal NOR is it all within his exclusive control, bc you'd be choosing for yourself. Knowing that there's a light at the end of the tunnel, one way or another, can be a comfort.
What if your h does not ever do what you need him to do?
Would you prefer staying in the situation as it is, over a divorce?, if those were your only options?
I ask that b/c your h may never take initiative to substantially change & improve himself
AND OR to divorce you. I mean, what is HIS motivation for change?
Why wouldn't he keep things as they are? What is his "pay off" for divorce, versus remaining status quo? Inertia often gets under rated for the powerful force it can be...it's that very complacency that often gets us where we are. Complacency is so subversive to marriages...
Yes, I have gone thru other periods of emotional enlightenment - they are painful times, but there is a peace at the end of the process. I just keep hoping that I have packed that box away for the last time, only to have to dig thru it again years later.
I had a great conversation with eldest D today about what is going on. She has been angry about H. I told her that the greatest personal growth seems to be a result of emotional challenges. We don't tend to grow during the good times.
True, and unfortunate and ironic. I sure wish God (or life or the universe, or whatever) would test me with a really good thing, you know, as a test to see if I become a jerk... like winning the lottery...
"I promise to share!!"
Don't regret you had the challenge, look to learn your lesson and enjoy the next chapter. I believe I'm a better, more loving woman b/c of this ordeal. Hard to know, but I'm definitely more self aware.
The DB folks I've stayed in touch with all seem changed, and for the better. That's worth a lot.
Becoming the very best version of ourselves that we can be (self actualization) by digging deep and doing really hard work, is probably THE achievement of our life.
If we do all that^^, then I think we have to let the marital cards fall where they will, and walk away with our heads held high, at peace.
.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Regarding 180s and detachment, it is really difficult to act differently around someone when they are not around. For the past 3 years, I have basically been living like a single mom (but not dating!).
I can SOOO relate to this. H and I, both traveled for work, and I did feel like a single Mom at some point, when it was just him traveling. A few years before the BD we did have a pretty much long distance marriage. It was important to me to spend time together, but he started to pull away at some point and became more distant.
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
I ask that b/c your h may never take initiative to substantially change & improve himself
AND OR to divorce you. I mean, what is HIS motivation for change?
I’ve been asking myself the same questions. Still have no answers though.
And this I complete agree with:
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
Becoming the very best version of ourselves that we can be (self actualization) by digging deep and doing really hard work, is probably THE achievement of our life.
M:50 H:52 S28 (my S from previous marriage) M:17 + 3 BD: 06/12 S: 06/12 - H works in another state
I haven't left the group, just taken some time away to get stuff sorted.
I have been doing a lot of reading about passive-agressive behaviour (about him) as well co-dependency (for me). Some great emotional eye-opening reads.
Also listening to some thought-provoking podcasts while I finished making all the curtains. They turned out great and house has now been photographed for going on the market - should be officially on the market tomorrow.
At the end of May, H came back after being gone for 3 weeks in which he was job interviewing and "thinking about things" with no new enlightenment or decisions. That was my ah-ha moment. He put forth no new effort - I knew it was time. Additionally he is planning on leaving the country this weekend and returning to USA indefinitely. So, I called my lawyer to have divorce paperwork drawn up.
I decided that I needed a vacation before he left for the last time, so I booked a week in Spain on a wellness and detox holiday (no red meat, no wheat, no sugar, no booze and no caffeine). Lots of exercise, sunshine and clean eating. Courses on nutrition and PT sessions. I still had lots of down time to read. It was a fabulous holiday. While I was gone I had the draft divorce papers sent to H (with warning). The best thing about me being on vacation is he has formed a better bond with the children.
I returned to a full schedule of events including son's birthday, son's end of school year events and a black tie. The black tie was last friday night - I was on a girl's table. It was such a fun time with lots of girl dancing. I knew people on most of the tables, so was lots of fun. Unfortunately Sat AM came very early with end of school year chapel at 9am, followed by a day of activities. Although slightly hung-over from night before and my hair was crisp with hair spray, I was surprised at the number of compliments I got - perhaps it was the detox?!?
H has acted very upset that my lawyer has requested a response from him within 7 days or paperwork will be filed "as-is". H says paperwork came as a surprise and out of the no-where. He is very upset at the process; however unwilling to re-evaluate the outcome. I have pointed out that paperwork has not been filed yet and could be withdrawn - he goes back to dithering.
I am very sad as I do not believe this is how problems gets solved. However, I have realised that he has been very clear with his messaging with me and has been treating me with indifference for years. With him leaving the country to start life in the USA, I needed to protect myself/children.
H is in a dark spot with himself. He is not coming out any time soon. He has reverted to many of the habits which gave him comfort as a child - it is very interesting to watch.
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
Another whirlwind 24hrs here with end of school activities for daughters. H left with son today to go back to USA. He is dropping son off at our friends in NH while he goes to NJ for a short term consulting job. So although he is traveling with son, he is actually going to be by himself. It is a bit of relief as he has been giving me such mixed signals. He took of his wedding ring, when I mentioned it he offered to put it back on - I told hm that it is his journey.
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
I awoke to peace in the house and this thought about my husband - for a man who claims to be very logical and have very few emotional-needs, he sure does create a lot of chaos around him thru stonewalling and lack of action in every area of his life. He's gone but with a lack of closure and unfinished business (paperwork and projects) that I must now complete. I will do the minimum to ensure decisions can get made and penalties are not enforced. I didn't nag or question his planning - it is time to let go. Looking forward to a future when I no longer carry the responsibility for his chaos as our lives will not be intertwined and there will be no penalties on me.
His inner self is in turmoil however I get to choose. Still wondering what healthy love actually looks like. Many of my emotionally healthy friends are able to see a clarity in my situation that I am only starting to recognise. I'm going to continue to focus on my needs and healing as he needs to learn to meet his own needs. New workout plan starting Monday (adding in weights) and changes to my diet! Looking for a good read about learning to love/heal after childhood abuse - any suggestions?
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
dejavu2, you appear to be in a good place, emotionally. I can see how you are tired of his indifference and his antics (according to your timeline, H’s been in MLC since 2012.) I admire your strength and courage to make a decision to move on with your life and let him take the full responsibility of his.
I love your plan for a healthier lifestyle. I don’t have a specific suggestion for the reading. Have you checked Louise Hay “You can heal your life”?
M:50 H:52 S28 (my S from previous marriage) M:17 + 3 BD: 06/12 S: 06/12 - H works in another state
Bright and Toots - thanks so much for checking in! Looking in to the reading ideas now.
My head is spinning, but guess that is going to happen quite a bit thru the process. Before H left, I once again held out the olive branch of reconciliation to which his response was dithering, uncertainty and "why don't you go ahead and file". So, I let the process continue with the divorce filing. Before I go on to each next step I have always checked with him that this what he wishes.
Today, he got correspondence from my L that he has failed to respond to 2 correspondences from them, therefore they are continuing with the process. He forwards note to me with comment that he couldn't believe I didn't tell him that it was coming.
I guess maybe it is hard to learn to be responsible for his actions and his inaction.
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
I'm sure your head is spinning. MLC is not a nice adventure in the game of life. You've shown such compassion and kindness towards your h throughout this difficult time and yet, he still doesn't get it and probably won't for many months, even years down the road.
I'm not at all surprised that he would write you a note that he didn't believe you didn't tell him. Unfortunately, they either don't "hear" what we are saying or they think we are threatening action unless they shape up. Your h is going to have to learn to be responsible for his actions. It will be interesting to see if he turns into an angry man because the divorce is going through. Some are really nice until the action begins and then turn into monsters. I do hope for your sake and the children's, he won't be one of those monsters.
You've done all you can and have made many attempts to save your marriage. Now, it's time to take care of you and your children, protect yourself no matter what.
Take care of yourself, be kind to yourself. Okay?
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Thanks Job. (future projecting ...) I can envision that he may turn into a monster. He has been using stonewalling and procrastination as ways of controlling the relationship/me since 2012. The court system does not take to procrastination - it has deadlines which must be respected. He hates it when others have expectations/deadlines of him and seeks to rebel. He especially struggles with bureaucratic processes and rebels. Divorce is going to painful.
I am considering pushing forward with D as I have also seen signs that he is going to start spending soon. He recently purchased an expensive new rifle sight. I don't mind him spending money on hobbies which he is currently passionate about, but this was a purchase for a dream-lifestyle. He hasn't shot a rifle in over 11 years and all of his guns are locked up in storage in the US which he has no access to.... than I also found reference to a new rifle. He is building his "dream lifestyle" - next will come a new sports car (he use to have sports cars before house renovation in 2011 - has been a big issue for him to not have one).
Too bad he is focusing on the material things of his new lifestyle and not focusing on making himself better.
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
I'm sorry to read he's taking the MLC route, but they all try to make themselves feel better w/bright and shiny new toys. Once the shine has tarnished, they move on to the next toy. Hopefully, in time, he'll come to realize that all of those toys will not help him find that illusive happiness that he's seeking. I do hope that one day he'll realize that he had a good marriage and family. It's so unfortunate that they have to be destructive in getting to the other side.
Please take care of yourself. Do what you think is best for you and the children.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Just want to say I admire all the patience and compassion you have shown, and continue to show to your H.
You seem to be in a good space emotionally. Love your healthier lifestyle plan.
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
Job and HaWho -- Thanks for your kind words. Always uplifting to see comments in the midst of this craziness.
MLC Dance!!! Who is going to decide which dance we are going to perform? Who is going to lead?
H has now been in the USA for about 3 weeks. He is keeping very busy with a consulting gig. I can tell he is loving working again and is getting great satisfaction from it therefore his self-esteem seems to be improving. Our conversations are very infrequent; however he is making an effort to speak with the kids daily (huge change from before Nov).
We have a history of revisiting solutions regarding issues within our relationship. We are back to revisiting the idea of the divorce. I am not certain why I thought the divorce process would be any different. The paperwork has been filed in the courts in the UK, which was the placeholder I was hoping to secure for now.
He keeps saying that "he wants it all to stop" and "doesn't know how to fix it". I am sure he is correct about both things. I sent him an email which reiterated what I said many times, including the fact that we need to take a look at the fact that a divorce may not solve our problems and it will create huge problems. I am not certain but something made him actually begin to hear the message and he said "it sounds like you don't want a divorce and you want to work on us". (ARGHHHHH --- I have been saying that since February). I was polite about it and just agreed.
Meanwhile, our son is staying with our friends in NH while H is working in NY. The friends know about the situation, the friend husband has decided to push the life issue with my husband and encouraged our family to go on vacation to a lake house in NH. My H has refused to go on a family holiday for the past 6 years -- not for any good reason, just to be stubborn. H has finally said the idea of a family vacation would be nice. I cautiously asked if he wanted it to be the 5 of us, to which he said yes.
He hasn't been clear about what he wants from the relationship or changes he is willing to make. He is only clear that he isn't certain he wants a divorce. So I am not leaping for joy thinking this is all behind us.
To test where his head is, I sent him a clear question about how to pay a credit card bill as it involves moving funds from country to country -- I have not got an acknowledgement nor suggestion in return. So, I gather he is still lost somewhere.
I made a big mistake and called him on Sat 4p his time (after 9p my time) as girls were heading off to camp the next day and communication is tricky. So, I called him and asked about his day to which he replied that he hadn't been up to much, but was heading out to a BBQ. I pointed out that the girls hadn't heard from him and the communications issue with camp. I didn't lecture, I just questioned him if he was going to speak to the girls. He became very frustrated, stressed and became a little boy who was powerless with his parent. It was interesting to see. I have been trying to 180 on his communication/involvement with the kids. I had been trying to let him be the hero or villain to the children without my involvement. Sent him a note later saying I should not have gotten involved. Kicking myself for messing up that 180.
The big news is - I was finally able to get my wedding ring off! I had put on weight over the past 4 years as I was eating my rejection. I have been making diet/exercise a bigger priority and was thrilled when I realised I could finally get my ring off, although with a lot of force! I was worried about putting it on/getting it off again, so I have chosen to put it away for now as he isn't here to see it anyway. As it gets closer to seeing him again, I will evaluate whether I want the ring off or on. For now it just feels great to have the option be mine!
The house is now on the market and we have had a few viewings. It is such a disappointment to complete the project without having the fun of entertaining and enjoying the house. Nothing is going to happen quickly this summer (and I have no idea where I would move anyway) - so no rush. Trying to get a BBQ sorted with some friends this week.
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
found this nugget of wisdom from JOB on another posting - Guilt and shame play a huge role in MLC, as well as depression. He is very much aware that what he's doing isn't right and he doesn't want to be reminded of it. Keep in mind, he's about 16-18 yrs. old and doesn't want to talk to you (mom figure). In his mind, what he's doing is his own personal business and doesn't need to share it w/you or anyone else.
With husband now so far away, I feel like he has turned into a university student. Desperate for his independence (and lack of accountability), but still wants to plan breaks with his family.
It is weird to be living life without any plan. I am not certain when son is coming home or if we are going on family holiday to lake. Just trying to focus on the facts I do know which is school starts 2 September and the children will all be home with me.
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
Had a lovely walk with a friend this AM where we were chatting about my future plans. I have been waffling with the family 3yr plan as I would really like H to be involved in the kids on a regular basis. However, without him having a solid job/location, I am unable to establish a life close to him. So, I have been waiting for him to sort his life and then move the family. I had a moment of clarity - H has never been comfortable with establishing family roots. I have always planted the family flag and he has come/gone from it. I now need to make the best decisions for the children regarding home/schooling and then let him fit in around them. As much as I want to move back to the USA, I am beginning to think it wouldn't be fair on the children as their foundation/culture is English. It can be tough to move when you are in HS. It can be tough to have dad/mom get divorced. I am not certain to give my children both burdens would be fair on them. I suspect H will continue to flit in/out of their life/my life.
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
There are some similarity to your husband. Yours is not there physically mine was there physically but not always emotionally. I definitely do see signs of narcissism in line. He can be cold and distant on purpose to make me mad. Its not a good feeling no reason to deal with and then being codependent myself makes for a bad combo. My H is very involved with my kids which is nice. I cannot imagine and you having to deal with everything on your own including a move. Hang in there I finally had to decide to move on and better my life for myself and my children. I jumped back in my career and now I'm making a better life with more money then I made previously. Just being independent and having my own money, help with my self esteem. We are beat down for so long its hard to see the light at the end. I can't imagine you having to deal with your H coming home every so often.
M15 T19 D13 S13 BD Affair 9/13 S 11/13 D started 6/14.. dropped court date 10/14 H attorney can't get it together. Still with long distance ow. Still hates me.
Unfortunately, I have to leave the light on for H to come home. By law I cannot refuse him access to the house if he wants to be here. I also knew of his desire to move, so I realised that everything would change soon enough.
Friends are very important thru this process. Since BD, separately 3 different long-standing male friends have offered to talk with H, as they think he is making poor life choices of not valuing his marriage and not providing framework/security for his family. None of them think there was an OW involved. I am touched that 3 different men would feel emotionally strong enough to offer to get involved in my situation. They are willing to "fight" for my marriage, when H isn't willing to. They are saying things which I have longed to hear from H for many years.
Yesterday I was driving to collect girls from camp and got lost in my own thoughts which resulted in missing my turnoff off a round-about in bumper-to-bummper traffic. So, I changed routes to avoid the b-2-b traffic. As I got off at the next exit, uncertain of which way to turn, my H called (first call since Sunday). We had a brief conversation which included an apology for not calling all week, a discussion about what was happening with his work and I gave him an update on the house viewings. Needless to say, I was distracted (completely lost) so the conversation wasn't long. However, it was interesting as I could tell something in me has changed. I finally felt detached.
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
They always seem to real us back in! Mine will do the same. He'll call or text all happy and day he's still alive or hi how are guy you after no contact from me! WTH...so over that! I know we're supposed to be nice and act all happy and great but at times I'd rather just hate him be pissed off at him and not want to talk to him. I'm glad you're getting to the point of feeling detached. That honestly does help a lot although you will go back and forth with your feelings. It's to be expected keep up the good work.
M15 T19 D13 S13 BD Affair 9/13 S 11/13 D started 6/14.. dropped court date 10/14 H attorney can't get it together. Still with long distance ow. Still hates me.
I really admire you for your strength. Going through this with children in tow is extremely challenging.
Keep up the good work.
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
NAP and HaWho - Thanks so much for stopping by. I have appreciated this group so much as I have been given some great advice as well as found some great reading recommendations. It is teaching me how to regain control and focus of my life. Thanks to all who contribute their stories and to all the emotionally insightful responses.
I am enjoying the my new emotional freedoms without H in the house. It is very emotionally uplifting to not have the chaos and negativity constantly in my day. I no longer have a daily sense of uncertainty. My sense of anxiety regarding the situation has decreased. Even my resting heat rate has gone down by 10bpm.
I am being shown true examples of love and acceptance by many. I had forgotten what those felt like. I am learning to breath and live again.
This may be a lull before the divorce process chaos erupts, but I am enjoying this new peace in my life.
I realise conversations with H have turned into "status update" meetings. He asks for updates, acknowledges them and that's it - just the facts. Even my daughters say that he doesn't talk to them, he just asks about their day.
I have agreed to bring the girls back to the USA for a family holiday at the end of August where I will meet up with son and H will join us. This has been arranged by the family my son is staying with. I think it will be good for the children to spend time with their dad. I am not looking forward to playing "family", however perhaps this will give us a chance to communicate again. As getting thru the D will be much easier/cheaper if we can communicate. Basically I will go for the week, play nicely and try to stay away from tricky conversations. I am not expecting to reconcile as he is so emotionally void right now. I will be returning home with the children and H is planning on staying in the US. I hope I have found enough inner strength and self-worth that I no longer want to leap at the crumbs of his affections/attention.
I am continuing to train for the half-marathon in September and the scale is sloooowly going down. Going to make a big push on cleaning up my eating for next 3 weeks (before we go to USA). It feels empowering to be healthier, stronger and smaller!
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
Does the benefit/reward exceed the cost? What is the benefit from trying to stay in a close relationship with my MLC? There is also a cost to being so close to someone who is going thru major emotional growth and turmoil.
I really like to have a drink of an evening; however with training for the half marathon my alcohol consumption must change. I have wanted to cut back for years, but never found any reason important enough. However, the thought of running after drinking the night before doesn't seem to work any longer. Today, it felt great to wake up alert and run 8 miles.
I have been friends with a guy 14yrs younger than me for many, many years. Recently, this guy has been making very provacative suggestions. Again, the long term cost to my self-esteem far outweighs any short term physical fulfillment. (However, it is flattering and gives me hope that I will find someone in my age bracket when the time is right).
I question what my Cost-Benefit is with the CURRENT relationship I have with my H. Are there any benefits? He is no longer good fun/company, he no longer seems dynamic, he shows no creativity, he has no personal direction and he shows no interest in me/my life. He is no longer even physically here. Beyond our history and the children, are there any current benefits?
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
At the end of the day it comes down to willingness on both sides. I'd like to think marriage is a sacrament. It still is to me but as long as one party does not participate then is it really a marriage?
Reflection is good but actions are more reliable. I am more cynical these days but I still believe in my vows to my husband. That being said - you can't fix this so acceptance is not always a bad thing.
M:25 years at BD w/ 2 daughters BD: 5/14 Separated 6/14 - H moved cross country w/OW D Final 9/17
“I can be changed by what happens to me. But I refuse to be reduced by it.” ― Maya Angelou
H has now been gone 6 weeks. I do not miss his negative energy around the house. Each day I feel emotionally stronger and more connected to the world around me. However, I still find one short email from him can be enough to send me backwards 3 steps - flooding me with self-doubt.
My stepmom passed yesterday. She came in to my life when I was 3yo, after my mom died. SMom was emotionally absent, physically abused me and resented me. I have come to realise, it is my relationship with her that I have chosen for my marriage. So my vacation trip back to the USA is going to start with a journey to say good-bye to her in the midwest. I will then go back to the Northeast to spend time with my kids and H (and our family friends). I find it odd that life has given me detachment from both these people at the same time. Both relationships have given me years of chaos in my life. Maybe this is a trip about learning to say goodbye to both relationships.
H still hasn't found a way which he feels comfortable communicating with me. We have had to communicate a bit more regarding all the plans around vacation/funeral. I have found his lack of empathy to be eye opening! In the only conversation we have had regarding my mom on life support, I mention how hard this week has been..... His response was - it had been a tough week for him on this project he has been working on. His lack of being able to identify with me emotionally or acknowledge grief was shockingly obvious. It was one of the first conversations I have had where I didn't take a step backwards ... It was just obvious the disconnection.
Girls were gone to a residential camp again this week, so rather than feel lonely in an empty house, I took an intensive business course. It was the best decision I could have made to fill that time. There was one certification test on Wednesday and a 3 hr written final on Friday. It was intense with hours of reviewing/homework every night. However, what a positive experience. It helped boost my confidence, challenged me intellectually, met some interesting contacts, filled my evenings and gave me reason to cut out all the alcohol. My skin looks fantastic and my head has been challenged.
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
I am very sorry to hear that your stepmom passed away. Your trip back to the States may help you to close some doors on your past that have been nipping at your heels for a while. You have to remember that MLCers' empathy chips are broken and they are only thinking of themselves during the crisis. I wasn't surprised by his comments about a rough week. I'm sorry he's not there to support you during this time.
Travel safely and I hope that you can find some quality time to enjoy some of your vacation times in the States.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Actually had a "normal" conversation with H yesterday. After I found out about smom passing on Friday, I had text H to let him know plans, he said he would call me later. I was exhausted and told him, I was going to bed as it had been a long emotional day. He called on Saturday and actually was NORMAL. He started off with empathy, listened to my ramblings, offered support and gave me a ton of suggestions on logistics. (I had already worked out all my logistics, but could tell it was important to him to have his say so I just kept comments to myself). I sent him follow up text thanking him for support and the final funeral arrangements. I really appreciated the virtual hug and know I may not get another one for a long time.
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
Why is communication so hard? H is speaking with the children almost daily - yeah! However is struggling to find a form of communication (email, text or call) that he feels he can do with me. I am not asking him emotional questions, most involve routine things. I treat emails/texts like business.
Examples - We are meeting up for a family vacation next week. I gave him a detailed schedule of all the travels and asked his plans. He finally responded, 'arrive sometime Friday night'. He is talking in detail about vacation plans/activities with the kids, hasn't mentioned anything to me. Won't address problems with our taxes.
I don't get it. Can't decide if he is doing this to wind me up or what. Stonewalling has been one of his go-to ways of controlling me.
He said he didn't want the kids in the middle and he wants to work with a mediator on the divorce rather than solicitors. However, his lack of communication seems to doing just the opposite.
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
Communication w/mlcers can be difficult because they really do not want to talk to us any more than they have too. It reminds them of what they've done and it makes them feel guilty.
Communicating w/the children is on a different scale. It's about what they are doing for the summer, etc. Conversations w/children don't require a lot of focus or demand that he provide "adult" responses to questions.
When communicating w/a MLCer, try to keep your emails short and to the point. Stick to one topic at a time. Do not send a lot of text/email messages because they will just sit in their in boxes. They don't want to be reminded of their pasts. I know you have questions, etc., but he's doing the typical stuff that MLCers do. Sometimes, we have to just do whatever we need to do if the MLCer doesn't respond and if they get angry, point out that you've sent emails and gotten no responses.
I'm so sorry he's acting like this.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I was really interested to read that Job, and I can understand your frustration DejaVu - particularly when the contact is on a practical matter and needs an answer. If I'm getting a bit frustrated at a non-response from H, I have occasionally said - I'll do X, unless I hear from you by Y. That way, if he doesn't answer I already have a default position. I don't think that should be over-used, but it has occasionally been useful to me.
Job, at what point do you think the reluctance to be in contact changes?
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Job and Sotto -- thanks for your input on the communication issue.
Sometimes I think I am going crazy when dealing with him because he takes his dysfunctions and wraps them up then insists they are rational and sane. Because I had been living in his midlife crazy vacuum, I had come to believe all the "realities" he tells. It is only by detaching, listening to people around me and watching for examples of loving/caring that I am learning that not everyone lives like this.
Today is a long day of travel enroute back to the funeral tomorrow. I am still struck by the irony of these two similar relationships in my life both changing at the same time. I believe "someone" has a bigger plan for my life.
Tonight I see H for the first time in 7 weeks. Landing at 8p, then I leave for midwest on 5a flight. I have no time/energy to deal with his issues - I have suggested he focus on the girls tonight. After the funeral, I am going to join my family and H in the NE for a few days with family friends.
A few weeks ago I took off my wedding ring. For many years it was stuck on my finger, as I have started to grow with confidence and lose weight I was finally able to get it off in July. It felt like a huge accomplishment. Now I am torn as whether to put it back on the for the trip or not.
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
Travel safely and try to enjoy the time you spend w/family later in the week.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
sorry a bit long..... I'm back from my whirlwind trip to the USA and kids are now back to school.
I returned to my Smom's funeral out of a sense of duty rather than grieving. It was a huge undertaking just to get there due to logistics -- I finally made it towards the end of the funeral, before luncheon. After an incredibly long journey I was completely surrounded by intense unconditional love from people I had not seen in 30 years. People who had known me from age 4-18. People who only offered love and support. It was the most amazing experience to have. At the cemetery, my family was together -- we had not all been together since 2002. That evening, 2 of my brothers/families and myself went out for a meal where we ended up sitting around for 3 hours and laughing. It was so wonderful to feel accepted, like I belong, like I am worthy of love.
The next day I drove my dad 4hrs to his retirement home enroute we stopped at a restaurant he took us to as little children. A great German restaurant - so fun to be able to take him back there. Then I spent 3 days with dad, helping him with details. It was great to spend the time with him. However, I noticed his lack of communication and "controlling" personality traits and wondered if this is why I have been tolerant of H behavour for so long. Dad will be ok, the kids have all been checking on him. At 84 he is learning to live life alone - who am I to moan about learning to do it at 47?
On Wed made the long journey (car, plane, plane, bus) to get to my family in NH. It was really odd to see H again and spend time with him/kids. He immediately said I could have the MBR and he would sleep downstairs. He has gained a considerable amount of weight in 7 weeks (up 1 size) which tells me he isn't living a balanced life -- he is focused on work. His work life is starting to click, however emotionally he still looks like such a lost, confused soul. This was made more obvious by the contrast of the unconditional love which I had been feeling.
We had 2 good days together with the kids and our friends. On the 3rd day, there were a couple of communication mix-ups (about plans/timings) unintentionally caused by our friends which really caused H to go back in to his rabbit hole. These were small things, but H made them in to big things. First, he did some major "throwing the toys out of the pram" over something small. Then, my family had clearly planned on having a family lobster dinner as such a treat in the NH area (H was aware of plan)! Friends & Husband cross-wired the plans. Kids and I decided I really wanted to keep with our original plans as was our only family dinner. We did end up having it but H was very, very grumpy and resentful - blamed me for mixup. Next morning started with apologies to the children and me - rest of the day went ok.
By the last day, he looked miserable. He said work was going stressful, nothing was going smoothly. I know it was also eating him up to have to say goodbye to the kids. His happy times on vacation were with friends H and spending time with our kids. The rest was extremely painful for him. He is also still struggling with trying to control everything. He was not able to just relax, have fun and enjoy the moment with me involved.
We spent 5 days together, not once did he mention the divorce or next steps. One of the things we need to decide is how we are going to divorce - mediation (with attorney advice), attorney-collaborative or court. I have decided not to force a decision on this for now as H's head is completely into the sale of a company which is set to complete in October (after which he will be out of a job again). I am hoping he will engage more in the process if I wait.
I am struck by how I am moving on. I no longer ache for his attention which is met with indifference. I no longer think he is going to be fixed any time soon. His soul is very broke - he is still living a life based on fear which is unhappy and confused. In his personal life, he is living like a victim. In regards to me, he is living in the negative past.
I want to move forward with a life based on love..... there is more to this but not time to explain today.....
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
Hi Deja-your time with family sounds wonderful and much needed.
It's always interesting to see what one notices, both internally and externally when returning to one's family of origin after a long break.
Hope you are able to get some much deserved rest after so much travel.
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
H called the other night... first time he has initiated conversation with me in a whole - however he wanted something. First he was upset that he was having a hard time communicating with the kids due to technology and kids not being available. Then he wanted me to sort some money so that he could buy a car. It was very hard for him to speak with me in an open and honest way - all very odd.
I am sitting on my hands today to not get involved in his car purchase. He is terrible at bureaucratic things as always thinks things should be simple, which they never are. He is living/working in NJ, got a drivers license from NH and trying to purchase a car from a private seller in NC. It all sounds like a bit of a paperwork, bureaucratic process logistical nightmare. Any way, I am trying desperately not to get involved, but hate to see him make such complex decisions with such large amounts of money.
(continuing to sit on hands.......)
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
You are doing the right thing in sitting on your hands. He's got to make these mistakes in order to learn and grow up. You can't fix everything for him. I know it's difficult to watch him make mistakes...but it's time to sit back and allow your man/child to learn on his own.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
H: 48 Me: 47 Married: 19 yrs T: 20 yrs 2 teen-Ds and S H-MLC (started 2012) and H-Unemployed (11/2014) D-Bomb: 2/2015 H left country but hasn't moved out: 7/2015 I filed: 7/2015
