Trying to Follow DB & DR

[MrBond]

"In the swinging lifestyle there is a code of ethics that most people follow, think of it as "honor amongst thieves" if you will. "

I don't think you realize how bad of an analogy that is. I will preface this by saying that we've had many people who come on here from a swinging lifestyle and a poly lifestyle that we've helped. It wasn't until they actually sat back and realized how damaging it was to introduce others into an intimacy that is usually tied in to a two person relationship.

You keep emphasizing "trust" which has no bearing here. I know that "rules" and boundaries in place for that lifestyle, and all of those rules are tied in to logic and understanding. You are dealing with emotions. Not trust. Emotions are tied in with intimacy. Especially for women.

You can argue all you want about it, but if you weren't M and just dating, it would be called playing the field. But now you want her to honor your "M" which wasn't done before. And you go to church. Does/Did she attend with you?

Yes I know all of the LL and the His Needs/Her Needs, and practically every M practice and term out there. Been doing this for awhile.

"because I felt it took a large percentage of our income. "

This plus the video game playing, etc. comes down to one thing. Control. You controlled everything and when she found out that with the OC, she was treated as an individual and not a housemate.

"The R with the OC has allowed her/us to get out of that cycle a bit by allowing us to ignore the duties around the house during the weekend."

You do understand that there were probably many healthier ways to get out of that cycle by doing different things with each other rather than getting bored with your sex life and having intimacy with others.

Aside from the games, what else did you two have in common?

[Miman2]

Yeah I guess that's my downfall. I want/like to try to think about things logically and it seems that doesn't apply when it comes to emotions.

I stopped going to church when I started undergrad (before I met the W). It's only recently that I've started going back. She never went, her parents didn't support her spiritual side. That's one thing I regret, she asked me to help her a couple of years ago and I basically talked her out of it.

I thought we had a lot in common. We'd look at other couples who were together and they only thing they seemed to have in common was they liked the way the other one looked.

We met in a sci-fi fan club.
We loved to read.
We would read fantasy novels out loud to each other.
We listened to similar music and she used to make me mix tapes when we first started dating.
We loved going to the movies and getting wrapped up in the fandom involved with that.
We both loved going to conventions (anime, scifi, comics etc.)
We loved costuming for the conventions and making our own costumes.
We liked going to renaissance festivals (and costuming for those too.)
We loved going to museums.
We used to go to parks together and just walk around talking for hours.
We ran our own anime club.
We learned Japanese together.
We liked gaming of all sorts, not just video. Table top, board games, cards.
We liked good food!! lol
We like trying new foods.
We enjoyed the occasional drink.
We liked seeing new places.
We shared views on politics.
We both love animals and going to zoos to see them.
We had somewhat similar upbringings.
We liked swimming.
We hated beaches.
We liked staying up late.
We both loved the theater. Wish we could have gone more often.
We liked learning new things.
We both supported each other through school and encouraged each other.
We enjoyed a good laugh, we were both pretty funny.
We each felt that we were each other's best friend.
We were both a bit stubborn.


I don't know. That's all I can think of at the moment...

[FindingPatience]

M2

I get where you're coming from. When my H asked to try the open thing it never occurred to me that it would take him from me. I was naive enough to think he'd love me more for being so open minded. After he got caught up I thought that if he ever comes back that I'd be stuck accepting some form of poly. I've detached enough to see that I deserve better. I'm hoping that will be him at some point, but I'll be okay either way.

The relationship with the OC isn't likely to be stable forever. She'll be secondary and that will wear thin after a time. If you can keep the road home paved smooth you never know how it will turn out.

In any case, the first order of business is detaching and seeing to a PMA.

[Miman2]

Sing.

We loved to sing together. She was much better at it than I was.
We loved to sing to each other.

[Miman2]

Thanks FindingPatience.

I'm trying to keep the road paved as smooth as possible. There have been things she's done and said that keep making me want to put up barriers but in the end I know those won't help anything other than my own sense of security.

Sorry to hear you're in the same boat as I am. You seem to have been holding on for quite a while. I'm fearful that once she moves that will be it, but I hold on to faith that it won't be.

[MrBond]

And so what have you been doing or learning to correct the things that lead your M astray?

[Miman2]

Well it seems that a big issue for her was control. So I've been trying to let go of that.

I'm not interfering with anything she's doing during our S.

When we get back together I would like for her to be able to treat herself with the money she's earned.

I think I've prevented us from going to a lot of places and vacations because I tend to like for things to be planned out (control!) while the W has more of a "let's just do it" attitude. I want to be able to do more things for her in this regard. Not having to plan every detail out but be able to do things she wants to do.

I suppose I need to give her more room to do the things she wants to do that don't necessarily involve me. On rare occasion her coworkers would go out and she would go with them with me in tow. She'd comment afterwards something along the lines of "thanks for going with me. I know you don't like hanging out with us from work because all we do is talk about work." I would tell her I didn't mind but I guess I didn't stress it enough or I guess I didn't really need to be there. I thought we liked just having each other around.

I want to try to get back to doing the things we used to enjoy together. I feel guilty like she took on more of my hobbies than I took on of hers. I'd like to do more things she enjoys. She would ask if we could go workout and I would say I wanted to go in the mornings because by we would go after work I would be too tired to go. We talked about getting season tickets to the theater once but never went through with it.

I need to change how I speak my love to her and how receptive I am to how she speaks her love to me. One of the things I did over the many years is doubt the fact that she really loved me. I'd ask "if you really loved me how come you don't let me rub your hair or appreciate my touch" for example.

I need to be more independent in the R. I need to get back to the level of independence that I felt I had before we got together. I've come to rely on her too much to do things for me (she would make my doctor's appointments for me!!). This also includes me doing a larger part in taking care of the household, cooking, making sure I'm prepared and have all my stuff ready for the day. Taking care of the cats. Taking better care of my self, like shaving more often (she complained that I didn't shave often enough so kissing would hurt/bother her).

Am I missing anything? Any other suggestions on things I need to work on?

[Miman2]

I feel like I should be more forgiving too. In the past the W had said somethings that hurt me and over the years I kept bringing it up. Before be BD she mentioned how I kept throwing the fact that she said those things in her face.

I think I could use a bit of anger management as well. I've lost my temper more than my fair share during our R.

[MrBond]

"Well it seems that a big issue for her was control. So I've been trying to let go of that.

I'm not interfering with anything she's doing during our S.

When we get back together I would like for her to be able to treat herself with the money she's earned."

This and all of the other "changes" that you wrote about are all dependent on her. Well she's not there any more. What can you do NOW to work on those issues and put them into practice into your daily life?

How often do you communicate with her?

I forgot if I missed it, but do you have children together?

[Miman2]

I don't really know how I can work on not controlling her without her around.

The best I've got in terms of making changes is taking care of the house, the cats, and myself. Trying to become the independent person I was before we met.

I haven't really been able to GAL other than see/talk to a couple of friends occasionally and going back to church. Nothing really exciting or new to speak of. I've been curbing back the gaming. It's hard to concentrate on them when my mind keeps screaming for the W.

Nope, no kids.

We were in contact a lot more the first week after the BD.

Week one
The day of the BD (friday) I did the typical begging/pleading. Then I went to the hotel she was staying at with the OC and did it again. She texted that night to see if I made it home okay, texted the next morning saying yes. She called sunday to see if i was at home. Told her if she needed more time I could stay with a friend. She said she needed more time.

She texted the next day (monday) angry that should couldn't find her passport that she needed for the vacation we were supposed to take the following week, she called the friend I was staying with asking why I took it. I didn't reply, just took the passport back to the apt.

I called her that thursday and gave her the "I'm sorry" talk. Told her I was going to therapy, told her I was writing notes of things I wanted to tell her, she said I should email them to her so she could see them. Started asking if she missed me, she didn't want to talk about it. I mentioned the vacation saying I hoped we could still go together, she tells me she cancelled it. I asked if we could remain in contact over a period of time, she said yeah I could call her and text her. She asked if I could go check on the cats. I said sure and went. I was texting her when I got back to the apt asking about what to do with stuff. She called me. We talked some more. I tried to keep her on the phone. After I left I got dumb and started asking about multiple charges on my credit card. She got defensive saying I was spying on her. I told her we needed to talk about money. Then she clammed up. 4 hours later she tells me she would call me on friday to talk about it.

Friday she calls late in the evening. We start agreeing on keeping our money separate but still trying to pay down debts we owned jointly. We tried to talk about splitting our phone bill and car insurance. She winds up telling me she'll just pay me (which I haven't seen any of yet). She mentions that since she cancelled the vacation that we'll get back money that'll will go back on the credit card.

We text a bit on saturday trying to cancel subscriptions and stuff so things don't keep getting charged to cards. I get an email asking for the confirmation on her flight for the vacation but not mine. I text her to ask her about it. She clams up again. Won't answer calls or texts.


Week two
Monday the day she left for vacation I call her to tell her I hope she has a good time, I'm not angry, not jealous and that I hope she's safe. I ask if we can talk when she gets back and she says "yeah maybe we can even get lunch". I ask her what she wants me to do with our bank account, if I should close it. She says no and that she wants me to move back into the apt. Saying she got her own. I try to ask her if this is just a S for now and she doesn't really have an answer.

I sent her texts while she was gone of the cats and telling her about some prescriptions that were ready for her and that I was thinking of her on her birthday.

Week three
She texted me the following monday long after her plane landed telling me she was back and asked about the cats. I told her it was good to hear she was safe and that the cats were fine and that i was staying with them.

She txts the next day asking if I did the taxes, I reply that I did and we got the refund back. I ask what she wants me to do with the money, she never replied.

She texts me LATE thursday night/friday morning asking if I was awake. I replied the next morning. She never replies. I call her late friday night, she says she was wondering how the cats and I were doing. I tell her about the cats, she mentions wanting to come pick stuff up. I tell her it's still her house she's welcome anytime and if she wants me to not be around when she is then just let me know and I'll be out. She says no that's okay. She asks about me and if I'm cooking for myself and still going to work regularly. She asks about any mail that's come in for her. We go over the mail and she tells me what to keep/toss. We talk about her parents for a while. She starts to say she has to go so I end the phone call.

That was the last direct contact I've had with her and that will be 3 weeks ago this Friday.

There was one time, two weeks ago, I was leaving IC and she was right in front of me in traffic. We were both heading in the same direction, so I was behind her for a little while. I pray to God she doesn't think I was stalking her. She's pretty unobservant about things going on around her so I don't think she saw me. Although since then I've discovered things missing in the apt so she stopped by at some point without letting me know.

I tried calling her this past saturday to talk about the cell phone bill but it just went straight to voice mail.