Yeah, I guess it was a kind of terse. I can say that I made a decision that I'm not going to bend over backwards to 'tailor' my emails with her. I tried to do that early on and got analysis paralysis. However, I do appreciate the feedback as i don't want to inadvertently say something that is definitely able to be taken the wrong way.
As far as daycare, they are already one-sided. Its a home daycare so there's only a husband and a wife we've had our kids there since they were born. Also, I live in a small town so most people are separated by only two degrees.
They were the ones that found out about OM first. They had made some comments over the last year or so about how W would drop off kids on her days off and then not pick them up until right before they closed the center, while I was at work. I did that every once in a while on my days off, so didn't think anything of it. I never really asked W why, but I can kind of remember her saying she had to run errands and all. I didn't mind either way.
The month before BD, W bad-mouthed me for a couple weeks in front of them, which was unusual. Then seeing that and the thing above, when W up and just left me and the kids; they were already suspicious. Well, then a friend of theirs asked them what was up with W and I, since this person saw W and OM together on two separate occasions. One of them was a trip for training for work that they all happened to be in. So, after hearing this, they spent about a month trying to tell me there was something more going on with OM, but I kept explaining it away as a friendship. They also see these huge changes in parenting that W is now making and they do have my kids best interest in their heart. So, I have to be careful in some of their advice.
M:36 W:37 T: 15 M:11 S6 D5 BD: 8/10/14 IDLY: 8/12/14 S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids) D Mentioned: 10/15/14 Confronted about OM: 10/15/14 EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13 She filed: 8/15 (not final)
So, MC was today and I went full-ish anti-DB I think or maybe not.....I guess I see it as I was not pursuing, begging or pleading; but more confidently talking about where I see our sitch and the future.
I'll add more later, but it was the first time that we actually talked about our relationship itself and what went wrong with it. It was a lot of spew, some was deeper hurting that I saw. However, my W's lies have broken down around her story in that all of the examples that she was giving about how our marriage was not working were AFTER her affair had started. Especially as I saw that the things she said, I fixed when she said them. Her counter was "I was just playing the role that I cared that you changed them"
It was an actual argument/heated discussion which interestingly enough we never really had many in our relationship. I can see that W is in so much pain and pretty much said 'no one cares about me.' I said to her, the ones that care about you, you've shut out of your life. She then replied all of those people (mom, BFF1, BFF2) are selfish and don't care. She said that she has had to protect herself from all of these people. I asked why and she said because she can't trust them. I said who can you trust? She thought for a while and said "I can trust my Sister"
Also, I said that I still care about her a couple times and she asked why I keep saying it, she knows its a 'lie.' I then said "W, why do you think I'm still in this after I found out all that has happened during our marriage. I know I'm going to be okay out of this, no matter what the outcome is. I'm not fighting for our marriage for just me, but I'm fighting for it because I care about you."
So, it seems a corner has turned, I just don't know if its towards R or D. I see how much pain my W is in, her whole world has collapsed around her and she's still not attributing it to some of the decisions she has made, but rather projecting back that all of the people that care about her are the problem. I also see that this 'person' she has become she is definitely not comfortable with. That gives me hope, but I'm still concerned that in 6 months; it seems like I'm the only person that gets her to deal with the reality of the situation. Better yet, it maybe that the reality is hitting her and her 'wall' of keeping me from seeing it is starting to break down.
Today is a day that I realize how much my sitch is in God's hands.
Last edited by MCS; 03/04/1512:11 AM.
M:36 W:37 T: 15 M:11 S6 D5 BD: 8/10/14 IDLY: 8/12/14 S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids) D Mentioned: 10/15/14 Confronted about OM: 10/15/14 EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13 She filed: 8/15 (not final)
I haven't headed over to your thread to see what's up, but glad you're back. I also agree, I probably answered her a little to quick as I was going through email from work and just answered her without much thought. It something I need to look out for because as Mozza said, the 'business-like' attitude is something I've wanted her to change.
To add more to my MC above (there's a lot to cover.) we started out talking about the kids and after actually discussing some petty (my view) stuff about her changing the kids schedule so we both had exactly the same number of days, we got to the point we both were in agreement that we need to put "us" aside and focus on what's best for the kids. It was really good progress. We then talked about our M for about 45 minutes. I guess that's a backslide too, but even though that was painful for both of us it was progress.
MC actually asked if we would feel okay walking out together. W and I both sat there for a few moments (I felt I was already pushing too much) then wife got up and left. I had a few quick words for MC and left myself and then just totally lost it in my car. It stinks seeing us both go through this pain and understand the extreme lack of communication that I didn't even identify in our M.
Last edited by MCS; 03/04/1512:50 AM.
M:36 W:37 T: 15 M:11 S6 D5 BD: 8/10/14 IDLY: 8/12/14 S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids) D Mentioned: 10/15/14 Confronted about OM: 10/15/14 EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13 She filed: 8/15 (not final)
The pain is worth going through to be effective in co parenting your precious joint bundles. I am delighted for you that you made great progress in MC to this end.
I know that like me, you have a spiritual way of thinking, and I would suggest that you choose a very kind spiritual guide to model your responses to W, St Theresa perhaps. What would she respond to W? This may assist you in warming to W and using the kind and loving voice to the mother of your children.
V
Last edited by Vanilla; 03/04/1512:58 AM.
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Yep, that's why I've been more vocal about some of this stuff even though it goes against some DB principles. I realize now that even at the sacrifice of a chance that we can R, W needs to get healthy to be the best mom she can be for the little ones.
Also, you hit in something else we discussed today, our faith and how it affects our viewpoints of the sitch. W said God gave her the strength to walk away. That she's a better christian now that she's left the marriage because she was 'angry' all the time when married. I replied that being 'angry' doesn't mean that you are not a good christian, Jesus got angry too in the bible. I then added that I feel God is telling me to be patient and love. I said to her, "W, this bothers me everyday that both of us feel God is leading us, but for each of us it is in opposite directions"
Last edited by MCS; 03/04/1501:30 AM.
M:36 W:37 T: 15 M:11 S6 D5 BD: 8/10/14 IDLY: 8/12/14 S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids) D Mentioned: 10/15/14 Confronted about OM: 10/15/14 EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13 She filed: 8/15 (not final)
W need do nothing MCS, deal with MCS and stop trying to control what W does. It is Gods job to judge and teach, this is W relationship with him not yours. MCS has his own R with his God.
I believe God (as we know him for me Higher Spirit) as love never leaves us, as they say Love is all around,. God stays with his children through all of life and some times in life we as his children lose the ability to connect and channel that love.
Anger can be a barrier to channeling love, MCS that need not be you, you can chose to open that channel, you can chose to connect to your higher power. As a man blessed to know the spirit then you have this already in your heart as a way of life.
Embrace love and become the man you can be. Whilst you love then anger is in the distance, the body can hold only one emotion at a time so let that be love. Project (leave ILY alone) love to W as the mother of your children and this will soften your stance, words and meaning. Soften MCS for your children, being around two unhappy parents even if they love you will be very uncomfortable for children.
Soften and relax, this is better for MCS health and wellbeing. As the most responsible parent MCS thie role of channelled love and protection falls to you. Please stop criticising and discussing W with the carers as V believes this harms you and your R with your children. This is vital to MCS, W as the mother of your children deserves this, if you deny this in your own mind then you will deny W her role. How can W then find a road back to MCS? Even if W wants to return in time, how can she if MCS denies all her roles, pushes anger at his damaged R into W role as mother. You can state your preference as a boundary on clothes, on timekeeping, on safety, but these are behaviours MCS not about the person of W.
Jesus spoke of forgiveness, the mote, and throwing the first stone. Your R with W is H and W, both are responsible, forgive each other, MCS take the first step project love channelled from your higher spirit: God if you will as that love is always there, find this in your tender heart. Be strong and be loving instead of being angry.
Peace MCS
V
Last edited by Vanilla; 03/04/1509:29 AM.
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
So, I've regressed in my own emotional standing right now because during our session, W threw stuff my way that was assessed by her to such an extreme that it is now bothering me that this is what she believes for herself. I know its not true, but this re-writing history seems to be that W seems to keep searching for something to believe for herself to about me to justify her actions.
Anyway, that was a short time during our session and I see that I'm breaking the cycle of angrily reacting to the spew. W knows how to get to me and that's through telling me that I never cared for her. I didn't take the bait in full-out defense mode, but I changed my reaction to constructively try to address why 'she' feels this way. At that point, the spew was directed to everyone else, her mom, my mom, her BFF's.
Reason I'm highlighting this again is that it's hurt my detachment. Just as I was coming to grips that this is truly the decision that W wants, I saw all of the pain that she is creating for herself by shutting out the others around her and then creating scenarios in her head that they don't care about her. She told me this is to protect herself and I guess I see that this is not just with me, but everyone. She's in pain and it seems she doesn't know how to get out. It's so difficult to sit back and watch it happening. I need to fight the urge to 'help'
So, I went back and read my post and I actually think the session was good. When I said it was heated; it was more closer to emotionally heated. W was throwing things my way of how I knew, but didn't care that our M was falling apart. I asked her how she 'knew' that I knew and she just stared at me and said "well, it doesn't matter anyway I was already done with the M for over a year" or "I told your mom" or "I put on an act to show you I actually cared"
It was rough to just take it, but it showed me the pain that she's in. I didn't get angry, I validated and when she through total re-writes of history I said I don't remember it that way. I sometimes explained how I saw the marriage and she either said that "it didn't matter she was going to do this anyway" or "I don't believe that you cared"
I can say, I'm getting to the point that I'm starting to forgive the past, as painful as it seems looking back at how deceptive she was. I'm starting to see her emotional state right now and feel so much compassion for her that I'm starting to put the present aside. We discussed the kids at first and seemed to make a lot of strides in both agreeing that we need to focus on them. I slipped and said something like "we need to figure out if they are going to stay in 'their' house for....." and she fired back "they have two homes now." I apologized and said that wasn't my intention to state it that way. She said okay, and we moved on.
V, I'm tiptoeing on this line of 'softening' and 'loving' her with what my IC says is my 'Hero' archetype. My IC said through all of this, she just sees the passion that I have to 'make it all better' not via control per se, but out of love and concern. She doesn't know how I'm keeping it together through all of the hurt (even intentional) that W has put me through. Someone said its because my self-esteem is low, but its because its actually the opposite.
So, I see that's what I need to learn. How do I 'love' someone and sit on the sideline as I see them struggling. I thought I had this licked with detachment, but I see that the emotional strain is back again (not nearly as much or deep as before) Even putting W aside, I feel the same need to 'rescue' my kids from this sitch.
Sitting back and watching is the toughest thing in the world.
For kiddos, V I see the bond that we have created through this. S5 has a card for me everyday that he made in school saying he loves me. D4 will just come up to me pull me down real close and whisper in my ear "Daddy, I love you" I need to heed your advice and remove discussions from daycare about the sitch. Its tough, because without interacting with W at all; most info comes through them, at W's request. I don't know how to stop that.
V, I'm in a much better place than a couple months ago. Many other's around me have said about my growth throughout the sitch. I don't feel it personally, but I know its happening.
In all of this, I pray that even though I want to know the path up an over the mountain, all I need to understand is the next step and I have faith that the plan is already in the works. I don't know what that looks like, but I feel that this session we had was that next step. There's a reason that she showed me the pain that's still with her this far into our sitch even though she doesn't want me to see it. That's the step. I was detaching and getting cold; I need to detach and still care. Not sure how, that'll be my next step.
Thanks for hanging in there with me
Last edited by MCS; 03/05/1512:47 AM.
M:36 W:37 T: 15 M:11 S6 D5 BD: 8/10/14 IDLY: 8/12/14 S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids) D Mentioned: 10/15/14 Confronted about OM: 10/15/14 EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13 She filed: 8/15 (not final)
So, had a dream last night one of those really vivid ones that you really believe that it's your life. In the dream, I remember being confused and I was looking around the house and things that I recently changed were back to how they used to be. So I realized it was in the past, but couldn't understand why. I walked into the bedroom and W was looking stressed putting laundry away. Out of the blue, I asked "W, are you thinking of leaving the marriage?" She looked at me and said "Yes, I've been thinking about that" I said "Let's go get some help..."
Ugh
M:36 W:37 T: 15 M:11 S6 D5 BD: 8/10/14 IDLY: 8/12/14 S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids) D Mentioned: 10/15/14 Confronted about OM: 10/15/14 EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13 She filed: 8/15 (not final)
There is a 12 step saying for codependents about the addictive behaviour (WAS to their addictions, their EA/PA gambling, alcohol, smoking, etc...) and those of us addicted to the addict.
We are not the cause We can not control And We can give no cure
the addict
We can only manage our own dependency
Very early on one of my mentors recommended a book to me. simple to the point and explains in English the very basics. I have read and reread the book as every time I do, I get more from it.
It is codependency for dummies by Darlene Lancer. I understand this better than codepend no more. It is a very strong recommendation to you. I was not diagnosed as codependent although I exhibits some of the behavious. It is very hard for an ADD to be codependent as they are easily distracted, GAL is a wonderful technique for me. This book is full of definitions, basics, diagrams and references. And is one of the few books that I revisit time after time and helpful as an approach to understanding addiction and my own recovery from the affects of this in my life.
I am lucky to have loving caring Gamanon mentors that remind me from time to time to revisit the basics. Al turtle on line stuff, (for teenagers) and this book. A gentle 2x4, and realistically this has helped me become more understanding and work from my own heart.
Stay with this MCS as the process works. 12 steps and DB work in harmony a book like this will explain why addicts rewrite history and how to use techniques to stabilise your own view so that the distortion is ineffective and less damaging.
Dreams are useful guides MCS to our underlying desires and wants. That is process.
Time MCS is on your side. Your children sound so loving, I could eat up every word about them like a delicious treat.
Dream on
V
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
