What's wrong with these answers, Foolish? Why can't they all be true? Do you prefer what KGirl heard: that H felt he couldn't accept an invitation for drinks with buddies because she wanted to have dinner with him? Can you give an example of a reason that you would believe or even give you closure?
M39 D6 D3 (at S) S 2014-09 D 2016-09
"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
Does it really matter to know "why" our WASes leave us? They are confused and will come up with all sorts of 'excuses' when it is patently obvious that they're high on the OP.
Ignore all sorts of 'pretend' excuses....it is ON THEM for cheating. It's as simple as that.
Sometimes we will never get the closure. I sure didn't get mine and I know that Ms. Wonka didn't get hers. It has been 10 years now. I accept that there will never be some form of "closure" for us.
So today I talk to my WAW on the phone. I called her early 6AM before the kids got up. She has her own place.
For the very first time, she admitted she made a "lapse in judgement" and "made a mistake" (with the affair) and it was a "cicken [censored]" thing to do. She admittted that she "stepped outside of the marriage" and that was wrong to do.
I validated and said yes, I made a mistake too by being so reactionary and upset by this whole situation.
She said she was upset that I talked to our friends and selected family about out situation. I said Yes, I did talk to a few friends and family. I would talk to the Devil himself trying to gain clarity on this situation.
I told her that I think we should go to counselling (for co parenting if nothing else). I of course and hopeful that if we get to counseling, we can begin to at least talk and build a foundation again.
We texted back and forth throughou the day with her sending me a text "Why do you constantly push me until I break? You give me your grief and then expect me to own it. I'm tired of living like tha"
My response text was something like this " I am sory that you feel that way and I have added to your already high stress level. Of course I do't want you to break. As for grief, that is my own personla issue and I am working on that throgh counselling. I don't want to figt or even argue, just to talk without distractions (lunch meeting at work or with the kids at home or her place).
So how did that sound? Did her admission of guilt sound like a breakthrough or is that my imagination?
I am laying low and not texting or contacting her again unless it's about kids or taxes (I am working on them).
Met for coffee at restaurant to talk about improving communication skills between the two of us to be better co parents. No r talk at all!!!
She tells me I guilted her into meeting and she felt very uncomfortable just being there. She said she has been trying for a while to get me to talk about our co parenting communication skills but I would not participate. But when I ask to meet its on my timetable.
I said oh if you are uncomfortable or feel I have guilted you into this meeting lets just go then. I walk up to pay and she runs out of the restaurant. I call after her but she is running away.
Now what?!
Clearly that was a bad decision to meet for coffee. Why did she agree to meet if she didn't want to talk?
How I wish someone would reapond on my deteriorating situation . I really so feel hopeless now. I have been patient, validating, accommodating, Yet u get further and further away from my goal.
clearly what I I am doing is not working so I must changey approaches. I feel I just get sucked into talks/ emails with her which are obviously not benefitting my situation .
Gotta run to work but I just made a post on Burger's that seems pretty similar to your sitch.
Look back at your thread. Suppose you made a pie chart out of how much you posted on the following subjects: ACTIONS OF WAW, GAL ACTIVITIES, 180s, BREAKTHROUGHS ON HOW TO DETACH...what would you observe?
WAW's are not the woman you married, they are not in love with you, they do not behave rationally, etc. It is easy to sit there and eat popcorn and be like "you wanna know what crazy thing my WAW did now???"
NO. We know where she's at. What we want to know is what YOU'RE doing to take ownership for your contributions in the breakdown of the M, to grow from them, and to use difficult interactions like the one you just mentioned as an opportunity to test the new and improved you.
The prize isn't that she'll come back, this isn't a game where if you make the right moves you'll win. She's her own person and may never come back. The prize is that you go from victim to movie star in your own life, and appreciate to your fullest the life God gave you. If it turns out your WAW is someday attracted to that person again, great. You'll have something to think about. But you need much more distance at this point.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
OK, I'll be a hair late. You've got some good stuff in your posts as well. I'd say keep focusing on GAL, Detaching, and 180s, and don't let WAW break your sway. Keep going.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
You seem to have two personalities on these boards. One of them is clear-minded and remarkable at executing a plan. Look at how you changed lawyer for instance. The other one is frantic and disoriented (we all are inside). In the early days of following your sitch, I had to go back to check I wasn't confusing two different newcomers.
I thought you were supposed to cut all communications with your WAW? What's with these early morning calls? The meeting? BTW, she says you often push her too much; be very careful to resist the urge to ask her one more question, to make one more call, etc.
To me, your fundamental challenge remains to understand the arc of how the success stories happen. It is possible that you never will, and it might be your undoing. We've told you many, many times, you've read the success stories, but you don't apply it to your sitch. I'll say it once more: it's a marathon and things will get worse before they get better. Things will get worse before they get better.
Things will get worse before they get better.
Before they get better.
Sorry, it must be obnoxious but I really want to drive the point across that any successful sitch goes through a very dark period, one that can last a year or two. You've just started. But then it emerges on the other side of that tunnel with a happier you, with or without WAW.
You appear to be going for the quick fix, for something to SAY now that will provoke a positive response, that will bring her back. It doesn't seem to be working from what you report to us. It would be surprising that it did.
As for the answers to your current situation, try re-reading your own thread. Really: have a look at what Wonka and many others have said,. When doing this, be mindful to discriminate between the advice of vets (best) and that of newcomers like me (support, suggestions).
M39 D6 D3 (at S) S 2014-09 D 2016-09
"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
Here are some of my thoughts on the latest exchanges.
It is ironic that our WASes are fragile and we need to be the strong ones. Meaning....confident and display of strength.
As for your W admitting to lapses of judgment, it is a good first step. You need to be warned that she will vacillate back and forth. It is a process that needs to happen organically. This means no guilt-inducing statements or actions.
Bringing up counseling at that time might not have been the best move as you wanted to grab a mile from the inch that W gave you in her admission about her mistakes. Many WASes are not ready for counseling until LONG after reconciliation/piecing. You guys are nowhere near it. I get the desperation of wanting to grab every chance to "fix things" right now. Remember that Rome wasn't built in a day.
Let's dissect some of the exchanges here.
Originally Posted By: Foolish
We texted back and forth throughou the day with her sending me a text "Why do you constantly push me until I break? You give me your grief and then expect me to own it. I'm tired of living like tha"
This should tell you something here. In DBing, we need to be the stronger person and put aside our own grief. Talking about counseling etc isn't the way to go. STFU and just listen. Listen and validate like a new lover.
Originally Posted By: Foolish
My response text was something like this " I am sory that you feel that way and I have added to your already high stress level. Of course I do't want you to break. As for grief, that is my own personla issue and I am working on that throgh counselling. I don't want to figt or even argue, just to talk without distractions (lunch meeting at work or with the kids at home or her place).
Be careful. With those comments, you're reinforcing the ideas in W's head that all you do is fight and argue. A short and simple comment would have calmed down the waters:
Thank you for bringing this up...I didn't realize how this was stressing you. This whole situation has been stressful for both of us. It isn't easy for us at all. Thank you for sharing.
Say nothing about you or your troubles. You really need to drink a bunch of STFU juice. I've got a bunch from the Wonka Factory and I'd be happy to send you a pallet of STFU juice.
Originally Posted By: Foolish
Met for coffee at restaurant to talk about improving communication skills between the two of us to be better co parents. No r talk at all!!!
She tells me I guilted her into meeting and she felt very uncomfortable just being there. She said she has been trying for a while to get me to talk about our co parenting communication skills but I would not participate. But when I ask to meet its on my timetable.
I said oh if you are uncomfortable or feel I have guilted you into this meeting lets just go then. I walk up to pay and she runs out of the restaurant. I call after her but she is running away.
Aren't you surprised at all with how you addressed her? How's that making her feel closer to you when you've just slapped her here?
Be careful of pushing W to "talk" or go to "counseling" for she's not ready for either one of them. The LBS will need to learn to put their own issues on the back burner for the time being and really listen to the WAS.
I suggest that the next opportunity comes up that you shelf all R talk and just talk about the kids. If W talks about her feelings, then make eye contact with her and pay attention to her. No arguing with her or trying to get your issues on the table.
Validating means you acknowledge her concerns and reflecting back to them that you hear them. That's the simple formula.
Example:
I fell down and scraped my knees yesterday.
Oh gosh, that must have hurt! Not fun at all for you.
We have been interacting that is true due to tax situation. I am doing /compiling The records for our CPA. So yes there has been some communication on that level. We work at the same place too so some work interaction happens too.
This morning she calls- I ignore it. She texts - I know you are ignoring me but are you ok? She is checking on me from the blistering text she sent last night. I ignore that too. Push and pull - it is hard. She treats me like chit but then circles back to see if I am ok.
I went to my bluegrass jam last night and it was just what I needed to get my mind distracted. Tonight I will go to the gym for a while so I don't have to go home to an empty house.
Mozza - you are right I am my own worst enemy. Still seeing lawyer today to review my options to protect me and kids. I will sit on my freaking hands to not contact her or respond to her attempts to keep the drama going.
There is nothing I can say or do that elicits any positive response. STFU isn't best option att is point.
