This need not be the end.

[Barry]

Thank you all for putting things in perspective.

We took my D16 to the musical Wicked last night. WAW went too.
I wish she hadn't have made me the offer, it was so difficult to sit there trying to make sure D had a good time and be upbeat when I know WAW just wants out. You're all right that we've had a good life together and we have four great kids who we both love to pieces and they love us in equal measure. I AM thankful for the years we've spent together, she HAS been a good wife to me for the most part, she's never cheated on me, and she's not now. I'm just so sad and any hope I had has been crushed by the offer. It felt like BD day again.

I don't consider the marriage a failure, but I feel like one for not being able to stop the breakdown of it. For not seeing all of this sooner and knowing what I know now. I've been a man only a fool WOULDN'T leave.
As I've read..hindsight is 20/20.

When we got home, I asked my D16 to give me and WAW wife a few minutes so she went on in whilst we sat in the car. I asked WAW if this is really what she wants. She didn't answer. I told her that she's such a big part of my life, of all I am, of all I stand for and all I ever wanted. I said if she wanted money, I'll give it to her, I'd give her everything including the clothes off my back to stay.

Trust me, I know how un DBlike that was, and how "old Barry" that is. I was so upset, I'd been holding it in all night. She said its not about the money. She wanted to go, so I just said...I'm asking you one last time WAW...please don't do this to us.

Again, she didn't answer and said she will text me today. I already know what it's going to say but I had to ask before I set into motion a chain of events that's going to drive us apart, at least for now.

I need to get this out there...I hate this. This is her choice, her doing even if not all the events leading to it. Now it's me that has to decide to set her free. I guess we all have to do that at some point in our sitch's.

I took the day off work yesterday and I'm off today too. I've been to find out about what child benefit and tax credits I may be entitled to and ive made an appointment to see a lawyer today. I've been in touch with my financial advisor as well regarding raising the money. If she really means to go through with this, I need to act fairly quickly before people tell her she's nuts for letting me have the house for so little.

I personally think the figure she's said is partly out of guilt. She'll always be able to say "yeah well, he did well for himself as far as the house goes". In a years time, that money will be long gone and I can do a lot to the house in a year. How I feel about all this is going to change many times over that time too, but ultimately, the best Barry needs to win through.

Maybe your'e right, maybe what she's telling me about not wanting any R is true, maybe she won't meet anyone. Maybe I will, we don't know. Maybe at some point she'll see me differently. There's a lot of maybe's there I know, it's because I'm so scared of the future, my future now without WAW.

[Barry]

What a couple of days I've had.

I rang my current mortgage provider and to cut a long story short, they won't lend me the extra money on my sole earnings. I need to either move my mortgage (incurring a £2000 redemption fee, and in doing that, take the extra money to pay off WAW and increase the term to lower the payment), I get a personal loan, or borrow from a family member (not on offer at this stage and maybe not available at all?). So at the moment, I'm not totally sure it's even possible.

Another thing is that I have a credit card and loan in my name only (the debt on each is "ours" though). As these monthly payments are affecting my affordability checks when applying for things, I want her to ideally take half the debt away. This is probably going to be a sticking point.

I saw a solicitor / lawyer today to get some advice on this offer from WAW of 10k to go on her merry way. What I wanted to know essentially is; Can we decide to do this ourselves, and have a legally binding document drawn up saying that she has no future claim on the house? If so, what would that cost?
I was told that such a letter may not stand up in court upon D. So she may be able to still take half the house's equity anyway (and there would be a cost).
We could get a separation agreement drawn up, thrashing the details out now (at a cost of course, and the costs of the actual D still apply), or we could (and this is what she advised me to do as the cheapest option) divorce her now on grounds of unreasonable behaviour.

As I sat there, I thought.."Only on Friday did I feel confident and better about the sitch and now four days later, I have legal council telling me it's (financially) best to divorce her now. I don't even want to be separated, let alone divorced and now it's even that I'm instigating it!!
I knew already that WAW is also entitled to half my pension which to her would mean around 32k. I wasn't sure if she knew that but it hasn't been mentioned. Obviously, any legal council she seeks will tell her that, and tell her she's mad for taking 10k, oh and the credit card and loan, don't worry about those, their in Barry's name.

I then called WAW this evening to talk about this offer and thrash out the details - she didn't want to talk face to face. To be honest, I'd also said to her at the start of the S that if she ever sought legal council, she would tell me so I could do the same. It's only fair that I at least tell her I've been to talk about the offer. She also needs to know I can't get her money from our current lender, about the legality of her future claim on the house, and I wanted to broach the subject of the other debts too.

I asked her again the same question as last night, "Is this really what you want?". She said yes it is. I started giving her some spew and tears and told her I'd call her back in 5 minutes. I dried my eyes, went to my room and as I sit there about to call her back, I notice my books on the bedside table and think...ok then...NMMNG WAW!!

I told her I was going to get her her money, but first there's a few issues to discuss. How we go about the house with the options above. She said she doesn't want anything but the 10k and she would sign anything to say she had no further claim. She asked me to take it on faith? I said that I couldn't do that any more. She's broken one of the biggest (actually THE biggest) promise you can make to another human being and now she expects me to trust her, I think not WAW. I asked her what she proposes to do about her half of the debts, to which she said she'd "help out" with the monthly payments. She said she can't afford to take half. I said neither can I but I have to nonetheless.

When I reminded her that I'd soon have all the household bills back too, she said that she'll also have rent, bills etc to pay. I told her that that's HER choice, she can call all this off now and have none of that. I suggested she take a credit card out to transfer half the debts to. WAW had the nerve to say to me.,,"Ah, I see, now we're getting down to the nitty gritty". I said yes WAW, we are. It's not very nice is it, don't forget that this is what you want.

We exchanged some stern words with each other, but I'm not letting her lead this dance now. She told me "You're getting a great deal". I said "don't think you're doing me any favours, you're not". She doesn't appreciate the gravity of all this, that it's a life changing event. She just wants her money now.

It wasn't a great phone call, but she said she'd look into the credit card, and I said I'd look into her money. She's basically saying that she wants to not involve solicitors, separate, and get a cheap, quick, online divorce when we can. I've looked at this too and it can be done for around £350 - £500. I don't feel protected from her though with the house. She's different now, the woman I thought would never do this to me is gone, maybe forever. She's saying she won't rip me off now but what about in 2 years time?? I'm still not sure what I'm going to do but at the moment, my priority is seeing if I can raise the 10k at all.

All I can do now is think of the good times with fond memories and not attach any pain to them. I need to move on. Whether or not I leave the door open for WAW is yet to be seen, I want to but I don't know if I can after her doing this to us. What i do know is that unfortunatly, this is what she wants and the best thing for me and the kids is to not stand in her way.

My ring is off, and it didn't hurt as much as I thought. Maybe that tells me what I need to know.

Barry.

[Ahoy]

Barry, thank you for your encouragement on my thread. I'm glad to see you taking care of yourself (meeting with a lawyer and figuring out your rights) in spite of not really wanting a divorce. I'm in the same position. I think you're right to be cautious about her "generous" offer. Definitely have a lawyer advise you on how to proceed with that. And make sure everything is in writing. Don't count on her to make payments on things unless they are exclusively in her name. Perhaps that's why she's asking for so little -- she doesn't want to assume the debt. It would be good to crunch the numbers and see how things really stand.

I'm glad you're able to think back on the good times without pain. That is really healthy. I wish I were able to do that. Right now, I look back and wonder if he was being phoney the whole time. His rewriting of history and his current actions cast a shadow on the past.

You sound like you're moving forward and taking care of yourself. Keep up the good work.

[Barry]

Ahh, you're welcome Ahoy. Thanks for stopping by.

You're right, I don't want any of this but now WAW has been completly clear on what it is she wants. I can't worry about her or her feelings any more. She's not thinking of mine. All of these years I thought she was too good for me, when actually it's the other way around. She doesn't deserve me or any loyalty I would have happily shown her now she's done this.

I have to protect myself, my kids, my home and my future from her now.
In reality, the amount it'll cost me is double what she's asking for in cold hard cash when I take into account the debt she may not take from me, redemtion fees, court costs, lawyers fees etc. It could still be worse if she wanted to sell the house though.

As I say, I will take the lead on this now, she just needs to STFU, sign what I ask her too and wait for her money.
I know how bitter I sound. I am.

I'm trying to remain positive about things, it'll be easier to do that once I know I can finance this whole deal.
It's still going to take months to sort out, and year(s) to get over emotionally.

Barry.

[Ahoy]

I know how you feel. And the money stuff is a huge stress. I have to tell myself all the time: it's just money. Also: whatever it costs me will be worth it.

[Barry]

I can't believe I find myself in this position but I now have to file against W.
I don't want to, I HAVE to. It's the only way I can get the consent agreement drawn up so that she can't come back for more upon D. I called W last night to tell her that was what I had to do. We didn't argue this time, we just talked.

I told W that I can't trust her word now. Even though I want to, I can't, I said that she didn't know where she'll be in just under 2 years and I can't run the risk of her changing her mind (or having it changed by other people). So I'll file, she said this is what she wants, she's not bothered that I'm filing for unreasonable behaviour.

I'm still working on the money side of things but it looks like it will be possible to do once I've sorted a few issues out. Apart from my mortgage, I'll be debt free and be paying less than I am now (admittedly for longer). I get most of the equity, my home back and two of my kids living with me. It's not the best outcome or what I wanted but it's the next best thing.

I did tell W that I was sorry that it had come to this, and that I wish her no harm. I asked her if she agreed that we'd had a good life together for the most part and she said yes we had. She just doesn't want it any more. I don't have to like that but I do have to accept it as painful as it is.

So we'll be divorced. Despite that, I told her that I'd never close the door on her but that I would move on with my life. I said if she ever had a change of heart and really wanted to be with me again, she should let me know. I'd marry her again, even after all of this. I say this because I love her still.

Damn you WAW for making me do this.

[Mozza]

Barry - I'm sorry it's coming to this. It must be horrible to work against your emotions like this. I admire you for finding the courage to do it. In my case, I just asked my WAW to wait a little more and we have no deadline. You've been very clear-minded and rational about it and it will pay off a great deal for you.

You probably know that you have to stop pursuing your WAW, to stop asking her if she really, really wants that. You report doing it almost every single time. It pushes her away. It does not help you in your goal to eventually reconcile. She needs to feel that you set her free. She needs to see you at peace with the new life you begin. From the little that I know and everything we have in common in terms of personality, I know it's not easy. Our emotions are so strong and we are sure that being honest and open is the right way to do things. But they are counterproductive right now. You're adding time to your jail time, you're also missing opportunities to have the greatest impact with your apparent detachment. In a few months, your lack of pursuit won't surprise her. But right now, looking like you're truly moving on will get noticed. Find the courage to do it.

[Barry]

Hi Mozza,

If there were any way to have the agreement drawn up without D, I'd do it but it's not possible. I told W that too. There is a chance she may not meet anyone, and I may not either. I just wanted her to know that I would take her back but only if she were 100% committed to a R with me again. She does know that I'll be moving on without her though.

Regarding the pursuit. I asked her on Monday if it was what she wanted but she didn't answer so I called her the following day to ask again and get an answer.
That was the last time I'll be asking that question now she's said that it IS what she wants. All I can do now is be strong for myself and kids. As I say, we did have a heartfelt conversation on the phone. I do love her and although things are ending between us in our M, I don't want it to be on bad terms regardless of the hurt I feel.

I have to think that this is the hand that fate has dealt me, and as much as I don't see it now, maybe it IS for the greater good. I haven't been happy for a long time in my M, neither has W. If this is what needs to happen for us both to be happy then so be it. I wish it could be different, but then I wish I drove a Ferrari too but that's not the case either. Wishes don't come true by themselves.

Even though this is ending, I'm going to keep posting here. This is all going to take some time to process and get over. Although it sounds like I'm giving up on DBing, I'm actually not. The ethos behind it all is sound and ultimately I never want to find myself in this position again. It's not all my fault but my view on myself, my M, and life in general hasn't been great and has contributed a lot to my sitch. Its time I stood up for what I want first and foremost now.

[Barry]

There is something I forgot to mention.

I have a large colourful tattoo on my leg of a tree rooted in rock with 4 birds flying over it (it covers my lower leg). I had this done about a year ago and designed it with the help of the tattoo artist. No one has one quite like it.

At the time, I saw W and I as the rock, the tree was our lives, and the four birds are for my children. I looked at it last night and realised that it's I alone who must be the rock now, the tree is still MY life but W is only one branch of it, not the trunk.
There are many other branches.

[Barry]

I went to see my S20 tonight for dinner and to shoot some pool. I told him about W's offer and what I intended to do. He was unhappy about it but could understand why it has to be this way. He told me to make sure I call the shots, and not to let W walk all over me. It's hard to hear him talk about his Mum that way, he's just looking out for me. He's a good son.

I've spoken to all the kids now. My D16 will live with W as already mentioned and my S18 and S13 will live with me (S20 at Uni). They are all welcome to stay with either of us whenever they want. I'm glad they're a little older so there's no issue with contact. W had already spoken with S13 about it and he was undecided, but after talking with me about he, he is staying. I'm so glad they both are.

I wish it didn't have to be this way. I miss W tonight.