This need not be the end.

[Joe46]

WOW!! I felt like I was reading my situation as I just read yours. The work and changing jobs. Same here! Sex part, same thing. Nice guy thing!! Controlling!! Are you sure you didn't copy my situation? But I am guessing you are not dealing with your wife's job as a phone sex operator!!!

[Joe46]

I can also relate to alot of this post mozza!

[25yearsmlc]

Hi all,
-
So I had dinner last night with WAW as planned.
I'd slept well, bought some new clothes, got a haircut (not really required but always feels good I think), shaved, new cologne, all the usual things. I washed my new sporty looking car, mentally ticked off everything I've learnt about myself recently, what I'd read in the books and on this forum and set off, still mindful of having no expectations.
I looked and felt great without blowing my own trumpet. I felt confident. I've lost around 20 pounds and it shows. I also decided to take my W ring off for the first time in an effort to show no pressure. She knows how I feel about things.


^^^ Wow...SO SO well done! Truly, I'm very impressed.

WAW turned up and said she was feeling a bit sick. She had a headache and she did look as though she hadn't been sleeping well.
I could see straight away that this meeting was for a reason as eye contact was difficult for her.
She seemed guarded and nervous, whilst I was open, confident and talkative. It seemed like WAW's confidence was a lot lower than I'd seen since BD. Maybe the grass hasn't been so green? I stuck to safe subjects like the kids, extended family, friends, work etc and waited to see which way she may want to steer the conversation.

As we were eating our meal, she said she wanted to talk about something.
I sat there and thought "Here it is, the moment that I've been dreading"...OM has arrived.

But no, he's still just on his way.

WAW "I've been thinking about the house and I have a proposition for you."
Barry. "And what would that be WAW?
WAW.."If we sell our house, we'll both walk away with around £10k each. You can buy me out for £10k and have the house?
It's a good deal, and you get to move home. S18 and S13 will live with you and D15 with go with me. We've paid too much into it and have 11 years left on it for one of us not to benefit and you can afford to live there..I can't"
Barry.."Thank you for your offer WAW, can we discuss it another time?
WAW.."Yes, that's fine but it's a serious offer and I'm just putting it out there".

** It's at this point that you should know that the actual figure we'd walk away with each is significantly higher then £10k.
We both know it. If it [b]was what I wanted, it is a good deal.
[/b]'

NEVER FORGET this ^^^ YOU are admitting it would be a GOOD DEAL FOR YOU , which means a good deal for your kids, right? Don't let emotions cloud your financial judgement.

I mean IF it comes to it...


We chatted about other things for a while. It's whilst we're talking then that I see she is now more talkative and open so I'm thankful not to hear about an OM, at least for tonight. She was still trying to talk about R though so I asked her if she wanted us to take 5 minutes out to do that? She said yes, that she wanted to. I insisted it not be about the past, and she insisted that I start.

I told her that I really do understand how she feels about the M (over), and that I was changing my perspective (but not my mind) on the whole situation. I said without blame that it was the worst thing that had ever happened to me, but in some ways, I needed it to happen. I know what water is now. I told her that now I find myself here, that I was using it to make myself stronger.
I told her that I was more aware of my faults, and also of my strengths and that being away from her had been like going through cold turkey for me. I didn't need her any more...I wanted her in my life. She said she could hear that in me and believed it.


This ^^ is called a "Victory."

I said I missed my oldest friend and confidant and that it was good to see her. I said that I thought that we are two good people who have a bad R but no one did this to us, we let it, and even made it happen. I said I know I can't control her at all, I never meant to in our M and that I was sorry. I told her it was me trying to gain back some sense of power when I felt I had none.

a small bone to pick here^^...why not just leave it at the "sorry" part and Not go on to defend so much?

To me, it is very close to holding HER accountable for your own surrender of power.

Make sense?

I said that I was concentrating on Barry and his kids right now.

Excellent.^^

She said that she hasn't changed her mind at all, and that she'd really been thinking about it a lot. She doesn't see anything changing and that she was sorry. She said she hadn't met anyone and had no plans to. She started to put herself down both physically and mentally and asked who on earth would want her anyway? I asked her to continue rather than saying "ME! ME!.
She doesn't know what she wants but knows what she doesn't want, and that's this M or R any more.


A gentle reminder...pay No attention to what they say and only half to what they DO.

I myself told my family in 2006 that my m was over. That we "had maybe a 10% chance of working out"...and h and I both stated we'd be "Glad to be done"....

I'm pretty sure I meant it when I said it, too....But guess what?

Feelings change, good memories resurface, evolve, IN TIME --and most marriages are an ebb and flow thing anyhow.


She feels that everyone is reporting back to me about anything she does (which isn't true, no one does), that it was stressing her out and that she still feels trapped. She said she maybe made a mistake in agreeing to move home and she should have got her own place. She wanted me to seriously think about the £10k buy out offer, I didn't have to answer now, just think about it.

We agreed to leave the R talk there and it was within our 5 minute window. We chatted about other things, tried to lighten the conversation and even managed a couple of laughs. I was faking it at this stage...I think we both were. WAW's offer had affected me. Even though I'd gone with no expectations, I hadn't expected that. She was seeing a different Barry and wasn't expecting that either so I think we both went home with more to think about than we bargained for.



Realistically, this ^^ is the best outcome possible. Only a fool would think she'd slap her forehead and say "Oh wow, You are so different! Let's RECONCILE NOW!"

And only fools rush back in...with premature reconciliations that are bound to fail and harder to recover from.

I asked if she'd had a good evening, and she said yes.


Next time, just TELL HER YOU had a good evening and leave it at that. Not so much asking her for feedback, okay? IT's not a biggie, but it's a note to check yourself there, alright?


I said that although I was all too aware of her feelings, I'd like to do it again but that there was to be NO R talk if we did. I said that I missed my oldest friend and confidant, and that although I was a lot better now, I was still unhappy with the situation.

She said that she could see a positive change in me and with a really heartfelt tone and look, told me that she was glad I was feeling better. That she'd been worried about me and cared about me still. We arranged our plans for D15's birthday on Monday and left. As WAW was getting into her car, she once more asked me to think about her offer, and I said I would, if she would think about not doing it at all. She said she had already.

I came "home", went to my room, shut the door and cried for the first time in two weeks.

I was upset that WAW would take £10k and call it quits. After 22 years together and everything we've been through, to put a nominal monetary value on what that was worth to her was hard to take. I'd give her a million pounds to stay.


That^^ is NOT what she is doing. You know this, deep down. She is trying to be fair AND she's talking about business.

Business is business. Do not assume she is equating your m to 10k. That's your spin on it, atm. That's your pain talking.

Read what you first said ("it IS a good deal for me")...


I know I shouldn't believe everything she says and that she will talk in absolutes. She does seem to have made up her mind though. I can see that she regrets not getting her own place but I don't feel sorry for her.
I was more thinking "Ahh, poor WAW, is everything not quite as you thought it would be when you set out on this path".
What a shame...but tough luck. It's not the same for me either now.

The offer is financially viable. I could buy her out by borrowing the money. I would make sure it was all set up legally in a way that if/when we D, she would have no claim on the house.

Yes...business IS business....you MIGHT want to make some arrangement in the event of your death but only if it relates to helping with the kids. Make sense?

(Meaning, while your kids are still young, if you were to predecease her, you could set up the home AND OR some life insurance to help, but just for the kids).

I can't tell their ages at the moment but perhaps you could get a 10 year term policy so it's cheaper. It could expire when the youngest is an adult.


However, I would have a real problem living in the family home even if I completely gutted it and changed the décor. I would be living in a house of ghosts. The only real immediate benefit would be that I would get to live with my S18 and S13, and I would have my own space again. Those are important benefits to me so I need to consider it. Another option would be for me to rent it out and we could move somewhere else. I have a lot to think about.

Stability for the kids is NO small trifle. What do you think would be best for THEM, at the moment?

And yes, changing the decor would be a great idea no matter what. IF there is a recon, it would need to "look" different as well as BE different and if the home has bad connotations for you it MAY have those for your w as well.

What would selling it be like for you, FINANCIALLY? Talk to some real estate agents (or whatever they are called in the UK)


The way she's talking, no amount of time is going to change her mind but I'll stay the course and continue in my DB'ing efforts until I don't want to any more. DBing is meant to save the person first (which it has already) and sometimes it can save a M too, but not always.


THIS IS THE TRUTH ^^^^ and THIS is about YOUR growth as a man. Well done.

I choose to stand for my myself first, then my kids, then my M. In that order.
My W ring is now back on my finger, it feels wrong not to have it on.

I text'd WAW this morning to say thank you for coming and I hope she was feeling better. I would think about her offer but wasn't ready to decide on it yet. I would see her on Monday.

Barry.

Bravo Barry, BRAVO! I don't see how it could have realistically gone any better. Even her offer, is actually a good one. Try your best to separate the financials from the emotionals...and btw, I have 2 family members who actually divorced, only to remarry their ex spouses later on. (3 & 5 years later, to be exact).


So yes, it does happen.

[Barry]

Thanks for that 25years, for both the pointers on where I could have improved and for the cheerleading . I also thought that realistically, the outcome was as good as it could have been.

It's not a good offer, it's a [b]great[\b] one financially. If this were happening to someone I knew personally, or even someone on this forum, I'd be chiming in, saying to take the offer A.S.A.P.

Even though I know that W is offering this in a genuine attempt to do what is sensible, it still hurts for it to come to this. I've cried so much today and am now.

Legal stuff aside, it'll come down to me writing a cheque and cutting her loose. I know she's already lost to me, this is now about me agreeing with myself that it's over. I guess it's the same for a lot of people in that deciding about the house seems like banging the last nails into the coffin. It's your biggest tangible asset, it's a tie that binds.

Ultimately, if I do nothing or don't take the offer because of some fantasy that she'll change her mind, the chances are huge that in a few short months, the decision will be made for me despite any amount of DBing.
I know it's pessimistic, that's how it feels though.

I've already lost the R that we've both paid into for 22 years, if I don't make the sensible decision here, I'll also lose the house that we've - (but financially, predominantly I've), been paying into for so many of those years. WAW will get a lot more money, and the pain remains.

I know I need to separate my heart from my head in this.

Emotionally, I'm all over the place. I feel like a small boat in a tempest. Regardless of the figure on it, she wants out and the life I knew is over. I don't want this to be happening, but I have to accept that it is nonetheless. Realistically, she's not coming back any time soon, if ever. She doesn't love or want me any more. She's going to move on, meet someone else and leave me behind. I can't stop her. She's been such a big part of my life, of who I've been, of everything I stood for and of all I ever wanted. I've lost all that now.

I'm so upset I have to write that guys. I'll come back later.

[Sotto]

Hi Barry - I agree with all that you wrote until that last paragraph. That kind of negative thinking won't help you my friend. One of the big challenges of DB is to try and remain positive in the face of your WAS's absolute statements. If you start making absolute statements yourself, that becomes even more difficult. So I would encourage you to accept how you feel, but challenge some of your thinking on this. A more accurate picture would be.

She (feels) she doesn't love or want me any more (right now. This could change in time of course.)

She (may) move on, meet someone else and leave me behind. (Or she may not, I just don't know right now. I suppose I might do the same.)

I can't stop her (right now. But I can control myself and become the man I want to be. Who knows, she may get interested and turn around at some point.)

I've lost all that (right) now. (Who knows, we may be able to build a new and better R at some point going forwards. Maybe not, but I'll be ok either way.)

I guess I'm just trying to encourage you not to lose sight of reality in the 'hopeless' thinking Barry. Sorry things feel so tough right now, but you're doing really well and have come a long way. But we still see signs of the 'old Barry' as he first was on these boards. That last paragraph is one of them. New Barry is much more attractive....

[Barry]

I know, it's just really set me back.

I'm so sad when I think of all the good times we've had, all the firsts, all the ups and downs and struggles we shared.
Those were the days my friend, we thought they'd never end.

I know no one can ever take that away from us, I just feel robbed of my dreams.
I wish her no ill will. I love her dearly, and I'm not sure that'll ever change.

I agree that stability for the kids is paramount. My S13 in particular needs stability right now, he's having some real problems at school as I've said. My S18 would live with me too, and I'm sure S20 would come and stay whenever possible. My D15 would move with WAW, but I would keep her room for her and she could stay whenever she wanted.

I know I have to take her offer, WAW knows it too.

[rd500]

No words of wisdom Barry but keep you head up mate. No one knows what will happen in the future. It seems bleak now but think positive and try to keep away from the negative thoughts.

Take care, Rd

[25yearsmlc]

Barry,

I've now been married over 3 decades. If it were all to end tomorrow, I would NOT say "30+ years ALL gone".

I'd say "we had a good run with many years of a loving m, an example of people working at raising & keeping a family together....and succeeding at it for most of that time."

IS it really "all" a failure now, Barry?

I would hope that in time you can see the many victories you have had along the way even if you do not ultimately reconcile.

Not to mention the growth in you since this ordeal began, but seriously the marriage itself. It cannot be a "failure" when it worked well enough, for so many years and brought good citizens into the world.

That'd be like saying an Olympic medal winner is now a loser b/c someone finally broke his record.

IF IF IF it is truly over, you still were happily married and fully loving, for a chunk of time of your life.

Your children know they are loved, and that they are not alone. You're no failure in my book.

And besides, I have 2 family members who divorced, only to remarry their former spouses a few years later (3 years and 5 years). So yes, it happens

Maybe now you can turn the marriage & your pain over to God,

hold your head up and be at peace.

[Fogg]

I agree with the other comments on here Barry. Don't give up hope things may change, you cant start thinking in absolutes. There really is no telling what the future holds for anyone.

Whatever does happen you have to see the positive in what has brought you here. The memories and life you shared, the children you have, the personal growth you have experienced over this difficult time. Be proud of what you have accomplished.

[Closer2]

Barry,

I don't post much on these boards, but your situation really hits home with me. I'm so frustrated right now with my WAW that I have been considering giving up. This past weekend was the most difficult weekend since I found out about her EA.

Catching up on your situation and reading the replies from Toots and 25years have inspired me to not give up. I am going to stay focused on DB, DR, and the advice from my DB coach. Giving up would be taking the easy way out. It would make things easier for my WAW (maybe even easier for me). I know I couldn't live with myself if I didn't try my hardest for this M and for my kids.

Thank you for posting.