The bigger issue becomes is she getting treatment and is she getting good treatment. So so many bad terrible therapists. Especially when someone is having a breakdown and the therapist doesn't recognize it.
I will pray for your w recovery from her very real disease
I think she is seeing a very good therapist -- but he can only help her as much as she is being honest with him about what is going on... and up until recently she wasn't being completely honest with him about everything. I still don't think she's telling him everything -- and I don't think she is aware enough to be able to tell him everything... She's still looking at her problems as external problems and not internal problems... Until she starts to look internally, forward progress will be very slow.
Thank you so much for the prayers.
Me 48, Her 50 (Same-Sex Couple) 3 Children Together: 9.5 years before BD BD: Week of 10/27/14 ExW started EA w OW 9/2014 ExW married OW 12/2015
Wierdest TM'ing with W this afternoon... Started with her typing "Babe..." then next message telling me that guy at work asked if she was single now... I typed "?" then she said "at work"... went on to explain that there is apparently another single lesbian in another department at work but she's not W's type so W thought she would tell me for when/if I'm ready to start dating other women... So we go on to discuss that with me saying that I'm not ready... and we just went on and on about the idea of me dating other people -- or at the very least me going out to dinner "as friends" with women just to start getting back out there and her telling me to go ahead and do that and that she's okay with it... So I said I might go out with a friend next weekend and then she asked if she could go out to dinner with one of her friends next Thursday (a good college friend who is straight and happily married) -- I said yes then at the exact same time we both typed "Just put it on the calendar" and then we both typed "LOL" at the fact that we were typing the same thoughts at the same time... It was so light-hearted and friendly and continued that way through the rest of the conversation... And interactions at home this evening were still light-hearted and friendly between us...
I do have to admit -- when I first saw the word "Babe" on my phone followed by the message about the guy asking if she was single, I almost wanted to TM back "Um, you do know you are texting Jer and not OW, right?" But decided against trying to stir up monster in case she really was meaning to text me... Wanted to see where this conversation went if that were the case... and boy did it go somewhere I never expected...
Super strange... I mean, I appreciate the friendly banter which I've really missed, but the topic of conversation about dating other people made me sad... My W has a jealous streak in her and I was kind of hoping that at some point down the road I might start going out with one of my friends and that might cause my W to rethink things a bit (but I know that's still a long way off if she ever starts to wake up)...
And of course, I couldn't help but think as we were having the TM conversation that maybe she's telling me all of this to help her absolve herself of guilt over her OW... Which I'm pretty certain that's one of the motivations behind her encouraging me to get back out on the dating scene...
It has been such an interesting week here in MLC-ville... If I weren't immersed in it, I'd be grabbing some popcorn to watch all of the craziness going on with my W this week. For those of you keeping score at home:
Sunday night, Monday, Monday night = monster, raging & fire-breathing monster unlike anything I've ever seen Tuesday morning = starts out in monster mode then crumbles into sobbing mess with me -- calling me baby, holding hands, hugging, tears unlike anything I've ever seen from her, but still talking about separation Tuesday night = civil, almost friendly Wednesday morning = friendly By Wednesday afternoon = Super friendly TM banter about me dating other people but also starting the TM with "Babe" which she hasn't texted to me I don't know how long... then very friendly at home... But still sleeping downstairs on the sofa, still focused on separation, and as far as I know still in contact with OW...
Right at this moment I am so glad that I recognized what was going on so early after BD (within days) and that I recognized at the same moment how much help I needed to get to a better place mentally, emotionally, spiritually, and physically as quickly as possible because I started all of that work immediately (even before coming on to these boards)... So glad I did all of that then because it's really helping me deal with what is going on this week. I'm just shaking my head at what I am observing in her.
At the very least -- this gives me hope that at some point we can come through this and be best friends who can excel at the co-parenting thing together... Of course, I'd love for a miracle to happen and for her to emerge from this realizing and feeling all of the love for me that I know is just buried deep within her somewhere, but I know that I've got to prepare for the worst while I hope for the best.
Me 48, Her 50 (Same-Sex Couple) 3 Children Together: 9.5 years before BD BD: Week of 10/27/14 ExW started EA w OW 9/2014 ExW married OW 12/2015
Hi Jer, I think they believe they want us to date others as a way of letting themselves off the hook, as you surmised. The reality is that if it happens or is even likely they can be very jealous and possessive. It is OK for them but not necessarily OK for us!
And yes, they are all over the place emotionally at this stage. Emotions racing around in their head as if they are on some sort of strange drug. Mood swings, anger, even occasional bouts of remorse, and loads of self pity.
As you know, most people who got through MLC have had a deeply traumatised childhood or adolescence, never dealt with. For a period of time they hold it together, often many years, while dealing with an internal despair that they cannot voice because it is so shaming to them (shaming is the only word I can think of but it isn't exactly right).
When they externalise it, they run away from their old life, including us. In their heads we are the problem, not them. It usually takes a long time for them to sort out their deep underlying problems, and some never do. All we can do is roll with the punches, and accept that these are damaged people, acting out (easier said than done).
We can use our pain to grow and become strong. Whatever happens with them (and we do not have to stop loving these beautiful damaged people) we have it in ourselves to learn and grow through our own pain. Not a barrel of laughs, but we are where we are.
Some MLCers appear to work through it fast, but these are the exceptions. For most it is a long journey.
Yep, Bea's right about "letting themselves off the hook"...I will put it in another way. It is a way to assuage themselves of the guilt of their A's. They know they're wrong about the affair, but won't let go.
So they want you to do the same so they're not the bad guy.
Stick to your guns and say, "No. Dating is not appropriate when I am in a committed relationship with children as a family unit."
Throw out some choice truth darts is okay to do with the MLCer.
Do not fall for that trap as it justifies what they want in their head. In fact I would hush about who you go out with and slap a general "friends" on it at all times. She will be happy and civil if she thinks you are dating because like above, she is free from the guilt of being the one who has not honored the relationship as you have done.
Some time back I got a VERY similar exchange, I was a great guy, I deserve to be happy, blah blah blah ... all so she could feel better and focus on OM and that A, I told her that I was a married man and that would be considered adultery, I also went on to let her know what she was doing was disrespectful to me, our M and our family and in no way would I be persuaded to go out (lower myself and standards as she did ... I did not say it that way but it was implied) and do as she was doing just so she could feel better. It was one of those exchanged where I was actually offended that she would assume I was going to just up and go out.
Few months pass and I was having dinner with a group of friends .. 1 guy and 3 gals, she flipped out and was all upset that I have not taken her out on a date in years.
So yeah ... stick to yourself and do your thing, but do not fall for being open and honest, be mysterious and that way she can not justify her OW1, 2 , or 3 ... be the rock and the lighthouse.
Hi Jer, I think they believe they want us to date others as a way of letting themselves off the hook, as you surmised. The reality is that if it happens or is even likely they can be very jealous and possessive. It is OK for them but not necessarily OK for us!
Bingo. Beatrice hits it out of the park.
You know how we say everyone here is unique but everything is the same? I think most of us have had our spouses try and get us to see other people or at least be open to it. As if us doing so would either:
A - make it ok that they were. B - make it so you would focus your attention on someone besides them...oh look a bird! Right over there! You know a distraction. Its sort of like their idea that being friends after everything was an option.
W - I can still see us being friend, you know like how we used to be. Me - Oh, that super sweet, its almost precious how naive you are.
: )
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
Yep, Bea's right about "letting themselves off the hook"...I will put it in another way. It is a way to assuage themselves of the guilt of their A's. They know they're wrong about the affair, but won't let go.
So they want you to do the same so they're not the bad guy.
Stick to your guns and say, "No. Dating is not appropriate when I am in a committed relationship with children as a family unit."
Throw out some choice truth darts is okay to do with the MLCer.
Yeah -- i didn't use the exact words that you used but did say that I'm not ready to even think about that yet and it's too soon for me. Mentioned something about it being not healthy in my opinion and that my focus needs to be on me and our family right now. I think I can follow up by saying I've thought more about our TM conversation and feel that it isn't appropriate for me to date or get involved with anyone else right now.
She needs to feel guilty about this. It helps that her mother has also acknowledged the A to her (even though W denied it to her mom) -- referring to it as a "rebound" that started before W and I were "done" which is not healthy or appropriate, and telling her that she sees it as a pattern in W's relationships over the years. W of course blew all of that off in their discussion... But I trust that, like everyone here says, that the MLCer does hear everything being said to them right now -- and that if we are lucky they do recognize it and process it later on down the road.
Time will only tell if that happens in my W's situation.
Me 48, Her 50 (Same-Sex Couple) 3 Children Together: 9.5 years before BD BD: Week of 10/27/14 ExW started EA w OW 9/2014 ExW married OW 12/2015
I agree -- it is a trap... Not going to fall for it... If I do go out, i am planning to say I'm just going out with "some friends" and make it sound like a group even if it's really only one or two friends. And, of course, give no other details or specifics...
The thought of even trying to date anyone right now makes my stomach turn... It's just not where my heart and mind are right now... If anything, I'd really just like some time completely alone for a little while. I don't even think I would have the mental and emotional energy to even date my W right now if she did have a complete change of heart... This whole MLC thing has just wiped me out, and I can only imagine the storm going on inside of her head, heart, and soul.
Me 48, Her 50 (Same-Sex Couple) 3 Children Together: 9.5 years before BD BD: Week of 10/27/14 ExW started EA w OW 9/2014 ExW married OW 12/2015
Very true... I didn't mean to sound like I'm in a mood where I don't want to have fun... I do plan to get out with friends -- but with some boundaries in place so that if I am out with friends (one or a group) where there might be some interest, I am not doing anything to lead anyone on or fall into the trap of doing my own "escape" with someone who might be available. As tempting as that might be in weaker moments... I know where my heart really is and I know that I have to remain on a healthy path of developing myself emotionally, mentally, and spiritually in order to continue to grow in a healthy way so that I am better prepared for the next relationship (whether that's in a new R with my W or a new R with someone else).
So yes -- still working on GALing, PMA, 180s, and having as much fun as possible... especially with my kids... :-)
W just left for the airport to spend the weekend at her brother's wedding... I was originally supposed to go -- but all of those plans were made pre-BD... So the kids and I have a fun weekend planned :-) I'm already feeling a bit of relief knowing that I'm away from her energy until very late Sunday night (she'll get home after I've gone to bed) and I am looking forward to this small break. Everything has been very friendly between the two of us over the past couple of days -- doesn't mean much of anything right now because A with OW is still ongoing -- but it is a bit nice even if it is a bit confusing & frustrating... W is acting like her old self quite a bit, just without the affection (hugs, kisses, I love you's) that we had in the past. But, whatever, it's MLC and it is what it is...
As for me -- still workin' on my masterpiece!
Me 48, Her 50 (Same-Sex Couple) 3 Children Together: 9.5 years before BD BD: Week of 10/27/14 ExW started EA w OW 9/2014 ExW married OW 12/2015
