seperated 4 months

[help67]

I would suggest you do what she requested. Having a physical separation from each other can work for good, if you will use that time for your personal boot camp.

At the moment, I can't think of any of the 37 rules you should reconsider just b/c there is no A. Can you?

You may be concerned in how she will see your changes. Don't worry about that. Just worry about setting those changes permanently, okay? If you are changing just to get her to come back, then you will be back down this road again. A year is not that long to work on the changes you need to make.

Is it true that you did not show her much respect? If so, do you know why?

Have you read Divorce Remedy?

When you say do what she requested, do you mean give her space, treat her with respect,etc. It seems that there is so much contratictory info everywhere I look, It's hard to come up with a plan, plus everything my wife has said or done these last 4+ months makes it more confusing. She seems to be telling me what she wants pretty clearly: seperation agreement, space (she lived with her friend the first 3 months, moved to an apt close by me, but she has yet to give me the address for fear that I might pop by and invade her space, which I would't). She sent me an email 2 months ago about a guy who quit drinking and after 2 years drank again to celebrate getting a job, and fell back into it heavily. She said, "see, this is why you can't drink just one." I agree with her, but I wondered why she sent it to me, was it to tell me this is one of things she wants?

Last week she called and said, I know you are probably working tonight, but the Felice Bros.( a band we like) is playing and so far it's Jen, and then the message got cut off. I didn't ask her about it, but it sounded like she was going to invite me, which would be the first time she has asked me to do something. Is this a good sign. I know I should't be obsessing about everything she says or does, but at the end of the LRT, it says look for little signs. This is what is part of the contradictory info I am seeing.


So, as far as a plan goes, I am giving her space, she recently said I have been good at giving it to her, I am treating her with respect and love, and will work on the seperation agreement with her. I have been there for her when work interfered with her time to watch my daughter, as this is one of the things she also asked for. She has also had some family problems lately, and I have been there for her, and I guess what I did was good, because she said this is exactly what I need, I did'nt get angry or try to fix anything.

I am also not talking about myself when I see her,, I ask about her work, or about her tae kwon do class and I listen, validate and am interested. I wasn't very good at this for a long time, but I want to know and am genuine about it.

The other thing I saw was setting goals. What would be good goals for me as far as the R. Would her giving me her address or inviting me to her place be simple enough. Perhaps she invited me to the concert I mentioned and if so that would be a goal that happened, so maybe another invite to do something would be a good goal. She has asked me a few times to pick something up for her where i work, which is a food co-op, and I did and gave it to her when she dropped off my daughter. Is her asking me for a favor such as this a goal.

As far as myself goes, I definately need to work on my own goals, GAL. I have obssessed too much, but after 27 years with her I don't know how not to; I, however, have been good these last two months at not showing her any of this, I don't pursue, and I don't act anything but in a goood mood when I see her. I need to become the best dad I can be, that is my number one goal, but this is also hard, thinking about what my daughter is going through. We moved to where we are now 11 years ago because it was a good place to raise my daughter, and my wife got a good job, and so I have been working around her schedule at a job that is just that, a job. I did a lot of cooking, laundry, cleaning, childcare and now I have too much time on my hands. My wife would have to pay me support as she makes 3 times as much as me.

At 47 I am actually thinking about going to college to try to become a nurse. It would take me about 4 years, but I would have to be accepted, have to take pre reqs. The head of the nursing dept. told me many people my age go that route, and that they have a 100% job placement, so I will look into it further next week

Is there anything important anyone thinks I am missing; let me know, i am open to anything, I am not a know-it-all anymore. So I guess time, patience and the help of the universe is what I need now, which isn't bad as patience is another thing I need to be better at.

[help67]

Any advice on how to interact with my W.. We last hung out two months ago, my invite, to watch a movie and have dinner as a family. My emotions got the better of me and I pressured my wife to work on the M, maybe it was too soon to hang out. I have not pressured or pursued, etc. since then. Do I ask her to hang out or do I wait for it to come from her, as I said in my last post, I believe she was inviting me to that concert she went to with her friends. Also, how do I talk to her in the limited time we have exchanging my daughter. I don't talk about myself, I ask her how work is or her tkd class, I make eye contact, listen mostly and am working on validating. Is there anything else I can do. We were a couple for so long, and I know she still doesn't trust my new behavior. It's been almost 5 months since she left, after 27 years together, in the grand scheme of things I guess that is not that long, and I need to be patient. Does that sound right, be more patient, she needs more time before she stops pulling away. I have treated her with love this whole time, she thought I would be crazy angry, I have lost my anger towards her as I realized it was all about me and the changes I needed to make. No anger=another part of my 180 and it feels good. Am making lots of behavioral changes for myself, therapy and hard work are paying off, I believe my wife sees this. I would love for us to do something together, so she can see this for more than a few minutes and we could have a fun, positive time together. So, Patience, Patience, Patience, would that be my best friend right now.

[sandi2]

We last hung out two months ago, my invite, to watch a movie and have dinner as a family. My emotions got the better of me and I pressured my wife to work on the M, maybe it was too soon to hang out.

Here's the thing, every time you start talking to her about the relationship, you have pushed yourself back to the first day she left. Why? B/c you have proven you won't let up and just enjoy the little time you had with her. That tells her you are still trying to control and she can't really trust you to change for good.

You want ideas for R goals? Make them about what you will do.......not what she will do. How can you set a goal about another person's actions? You can't. So forget goals such as her inviting you over, etc. However, you can make a goal to not bring up the relationship. To go for xx amount of time without applying pressure. To snow your self convidence when exchanging your D, without the need to have a discussion. To see how long you can go without initiating contact. See?

Do I ask her to hang out or do I wait for it to come from her, as I said in my last post, I believe she was inviting me to that concert she went to with her friends.

Do not ask her out. She has asked for a year of separation, so act as if you are honoring her request. If she should invite you then you can accept...as long as you can behave and not take it as some sign to pursue and pressure her.

Also, how do I talk to her in the limited time we have exchanging my daughter

.

You are doing about all you can. If you push to talk, then she sees it as pressure. It is you trying too hard, and it is a turnoff to women. It is better to look cool, calm, & confident, rather than trying to cram a quick discussion into a small amount of time.

You have mentioned several times about how long you've been together. I get the impression you are having a harder time adjusting to your new lifestyle than she is. 27 yrs. was a long time for her to endure some of the things she took from you. In comparison, five months is nothing. The hardest part for her will be in trusting you. At the moment, your changes look like a ploy to get her back. You've even said yourself that in the past you fail back into old habits. So don't rush her.

When you say do what she requested, do you mean give her space, treat her with respect,etc.

Yes

It seems that there is so much contratictory info everywhere I look, It's hard to come up with a plan

Do you mean here on the board or in different books, etc.? Give an example.

I know I should't be obsessing about everything she says or does, but at the end of the LRT, it says look for little signs. This is what is part of the contradictory info I am seeing.

But it doesn't say to obsess, does it? I don't see contradiction in the book, but you do have to rightly divide what she is saying. For example, there was a guy here who was saying the same thing about the contradiction in the book. When we finally got him to tell us which part, we discovered he was applying some things that was not meant for his stitch. I mean, there is a lot written for couples who are still under the same roof. There is some that applies to healing from affairs. Ironically, she has about one or two sentences for the M where the WAS refuses to give up the A. A ton of people miss that little tidbit. They keep trying to apply the advice she gives about healing together when the WAS has ended the A to their own stitch where their S has refused to end it. So do you see what I mean about knowing what applies to your particular stitch and what doesn't? Everyone is not in the same stitch and if you get in a hurry to get through the book, you will miss some of those things.

I believe when you reach the point that you stop trying to get her to change her mind (controlling) and just let up on the pressure techniques (pushing discussions in short periods of time) and focus on your life, you will begin to see some changes.

Ate you doing anything to GAL? This is so very important to your changes and overall development. We stress it all the time, but people don't believe it until they actually do it. Then they come back and say, "You were right about GAL". I think it would also help you not to obsess so much.

[help67]

Thanks Sandi for your reply-lots of help for me.

So, since that day we hung out, I have not brought up R or pressured her, and I have not been initiating contact other than to see how she was doing this week because she had the flu. When we exchange our D, she does start discussion sometimes, so I will use that opportunity to listen and be respectful of her.

I am having an extremely hard time adjusting, now that I am sober (not a drink since she left, and that feels great) and am in therapy I am opening up and it hurts so much not to be able to open up to her about everything & anything. We used to be able to talk about anything, we both loved that about each other, even though it has been a while and now that I want to again with her I cant and it hurts so much. There is no going back to my bad ways, I know that and I know it will take a long time for her to trust it.

GAL is what I need to figure out now, so I keep busy doing something important to me, something that helps me grow, and something that keeps me busy so I don't obsess.

[help67]

Also, what is my sitch. When my W first left she said she wanted to settle in, do a legal separation, wait a year and then it would become the divorce, she already got a lawyer. About 6 weeks ago she said she would send me a draft of the separation agreement for me to look over, and say what I thought should be different, I am waiting on that. Then she said I know you don't want this part to happen, but after years of things staying the same, I need something concrete so I am not anxious. Then she said the agreement would be in place for a year before anything else, with the plan I would like to follow, but she didn't use the D word.

There is no om and I am not going to date, I don't know what her plans are, but I think she wants time to process and heal, and not be with anyone right now.

Does this change anything as far as a plan or goals go for me. I will work on the separation agreement with her, in a year if she wants a divorce still, I will give it to her, what other choice is there. What hope do I have for these things to change.

[sandi2]

First of all, get legal representation. Do not trust her to be fair or do the right thing. Her lawyer is working for her best interest, not yours.

You need to pull completely back. Let her live the single life. And frankly, I think you are limiting yourself when you say you don't want to date. Truth is, you are hoping she will agree to not date, too. But do not tell her you aren't going to date. If you ask her about her intentions, she will give some vague answer like, "I am not interested in any man right now" or "Who would I want to date?". But that is simply a smoke screen.

You want to know a little secret? The less you reveal to her about your personal life, the better. As long as she knows you are safely home pining away for her, then she won't worry about the possibility of another woman taking her place. If she has any feelings left for you, it will surface when she thinks you have lost interest in her and you're enjoying life to the fullest. If only the LBH would realize this fact, I think it would reduce his pain & suffering considerably. I am not saying you have to do something you don't want to do. I am saying she needs to realize she has put you out there as a single man. I don't think she has worried about that little fact one bit. You are there assuring her of your feelings and availability. Think about it.

I realize this does not sound like the 180's you had in mind. You are thinking, "isn't that why I'm here?". Maybe, I don't think. Just bear with me a little bit. There has to be a period of time between what you do to improve yourself and your life (in order to get her interested in you again) and the period when she is ready to R. When you are worming on piecing, then you can start showing those other things you thought you should be doing now. Does that make sense? There are steps in all of this working together. You can't get the cart before the horse or it won't go.

So, back to what I was saying. Stop living as though you are a married man. Start thinking like a single, free man again who can do whatever he wants. You do not have to give an account to her, b/c she dumped you. Your relationship status has changed, whether you wanted it or not.

What would you like to do, being free and single? Again, I am not suggesting you hook up with some woman. That's not all there is to being single. Besides, this may be your only opportunity to enjoy being footloose and free. Try to enjoy your freedom as best you can. And I hope you know I don't mean that in any offensive way to your M.

Time and space can create a feeling of her missing you, if you will allow it to take place. You really have not allowed it to happen yet. Missing you would be quite good for her. And those invitations you asked about? Do not pounce on accepting all of them. Sometimes you need to have plans that you just can't break. Do you get it?

Get your calendar out and start filling it up with enjoyable activities. Look at what's going on in your community. Think about some kind of volunteer work to help your elderly or sick neighbors. Make yourself get out of that house! Engage in some new hobby, or old forgotten ones. Reconnect with friends and relatives. Make new friends by going where the people are. Make special times with your daughter. Plan ahead for things you can do together. Have old friends come over when the D is at her mom's place. Have a guy's night out.

Set goals for self improvement. When she is ready to come back home, you want to be new & improved. If she doesn't want to come back, then you'll be ready and more prepared for a new R. (I know. You don't want to think about that now. So, do it to be a better man, friend, and dad.)

These are not the tips you were looking for, are they? You wanted some instructions that would throw you into action that got this over and brought her home. These are those steps in getting there. Until you do this part, nothing else will work.

Btw, I think it is fantastic that you have stopped drinking. I am sure she wonders if it will stick. Are you in some type of support program? I can't imagine what self discipline this must take for you. It shows you have a lot of inner strength. However, there comes a time for all of us that we need extra support.

[help67]

I havn't gotten a lawyer yet, but when we start to work on the agreement if I need one, I will. Everything we have gets split down the middle pretty much, she earns a lot more than me and will have to pay me support, I worked around her schedule, and took care of the house, though she did a lot too. I do believe she will be fair, we will see, but she left not to betray me, but because I have been like I was for too long.
A few months ago when I was still trying to convince her to work on R she said she wanted me to date because she thought that was one of the problems, that I didn't date that much before we met, and I told her I wouldn't. So what do I do about that now, I really have no head to date anyone, it wouldn't be fair to them.
She only asked me to do something that one time, but if she does again I can tell her I am busy, and then do something else.
You said I could do the things I want to now, when piecing happens. What things, hanging out, talking? Does piecing start when she says she wants to work on R.


I did start volunteering at a soup kitchen 2 monthds ago? I finally made plans to go out, this Friday with some friends.
I am working on self improvement, changing all my behaviors is the biggest. Not drinking has been eady thus far, I think because I now equate it with so much pain, but I will always work on it. These are the two big things, I believe as far as my W is concerned. These are the things she will think are temporary, it will take time for her to trust these changes.
What would I have to do to pull completely back. I am not initiating contact, I am not asking her to do anything together.

[sandi2]

You said I could do the things I want to now, when piecing happens

One of us didn't say that quite right.

I tried to give you examples of things you could do as a single man. A man who was not expected home by a certain time, who didn't have pressures or expectations from a spouse, one who did not need to check in with his W and give his agenda, one who can come & go as he pleases, can see whoever he wants, do whatever he wants, and take as much time as he wants. Have you ever lived alone before now? If not, I am sure it must be quite an experience!

Reconcilation starts when she and you can agree to the same conditions and she "wants" to really work on the MR. Once you reconcile, the piecing begins. Piecing means real work.

[help67]

I am still unsure how to proceed, I am still waiting on her for the seperation agreement, the last time she brought it up was 6 weeks ago, I plan to drag it out as long as I can, this way as much time that can pass seems to be in my favor. The agreement will be in place for a year, I am hoping that by then she might not seem so sure about divorce.

In the meantime I am working on the problems I brought to the marriage. I am not going to worry about dating until we divorce, it is not something I can even wrap my head around now.

My wife has asked me for space, to talk to her in a respectful, interested way, to be her friend, and to help her with childcare when she needs due to work. Aren't these things I should do, otherwise its just me ignoring what she needs, like my old behavior of being selfish. I feel like if I totally pull away, she will see me as not changing, not being there for what she needs. I realize that it takes two to tango, but if it really was mostly me that pushed her away, wont she appreciate me being there now for what she asks when she needs it most.

I dont pursue or call or anything like that anymore, but I answer her, and when I see her I dont force conversation, I am interested and I dont feel she is turned off by it.

When she asked if I wanted to go to the concert with her and friends it was the first time she asked me to do anything with her since she left, and in her emails the last few times she has asked me how I am doing, arent these good signs.

I worked around my wifes schedule in a job since my daughter was born because my wife got a good job when we moved. She has a "career" and got a good raise and promotion 18 months ago, probably what made her say I can leave now. She will have to pay me support so I can make it. So now I have so much time not having to do so much laundry, cooking, cleaning, etc, plus its only me 4 days a week when she has the child. I am really thinking about trying to get into nursing school, it will be a lot of work and money is tight, but it would be doing something workwise that I want to do which I never did. At my age it wouldnt be that unusual, and I would find a job, I am in good shape.

Am I still thinking wrong, is there any chance, I dont want to quit or give up hope , I am willing to be patient, in time if she really u nderstands that I have changed, changed back to who I used to be, will it matter.

[help67]

It's five months now since she left and I don't feel like I've progressed any as far as GAL. My family was my life, other than sports (playing & watching), work is just a job (35 hrs./wk.) and I am still obsessing and depressed. I am going to a basketball game with friends tomorrow night, so finally I am going out.
I feel I am doing well as far as my growth and behavioral changes; therapy, reading, and putting things into practice are working, as well as not drinking. I have not had a drink in 5 months and don't miss it or think about it; I have a friend that comes to the house every week to watch some basketball and he drinks and it doesn't bother me.
If I was like this before, my wife would have loved it; I am becoming what she had hoped for, I hope she sees it and starts to trust it at some point, and it matters to her.
So if I do better at GAL along with my growth, I will be busier & happier, I will obsess less, be less depressed, and less needy as far as my wife goes. In turn, I will not be so concerned with what my wife is doing, thus detaching, and this might make her curious as to what I am doing, and possibly draw her towards me. Is this correct.
If this is correct, then what would come next. If she shows interest in me, then I respond sometimes. I might hang out with her if she asks, I might be busy. Things would progress slowly, and no talk of the M or R unless it is initiated by her. If this is the progression, what comes next. If we are doing things together, and having fun together, then what.