Susana (6) - Feelin' Stronger Every Day

[susana4]

Thanks Complex. I feel like I still think about him a lot but way less than I did before. Thanks for the advice about the mornings, and worries. Definitely need to do that with my worries!

Thanks! I'm planning to go out and visit a friend today who lives about an hour and a half away. He's not doing so well (was having suicidal thoughts the other day). Saturday I will go to my belly dancing class if I get up early enough and then I thought I'd do some shopping and try for spa night, take 2. Sunday a friend is hosting brunch, and somehow these things turn into all-day affairs. Hope you have nice plans for the weekend too!

Well, I think I'm about to break that and give H more attention in my next post...

[susana4]

We ML again last night. This time wasn't as passionate, but was very tender, and there was a lot of kissing and hand holding.

But first, I'll back up.

H arrived back around midnight and was in a really good mood. Or maybe it was that I was in a really good mood and he reflected it?

He ate some of the curry and lemon rice I'd made, and I sat at the table with him and had a cookie and we talked and joked and laughed. He *loved* the food and he wouldn't stop telling me how much. "You're so clever, I can't believe you invented these cookies!" "I make you crap food and you make THIS" and "I get to come home to the most AMAZING food!"

I got in bed and he came to say good night to me but was in a very jokey/playful mood and started teasing me about how grumpy I am in the mornings. He got in bed and said he was going to do an impression of what I look like when I wake up in the morning (it made me laugh). Then he settled into the bed and he said "oh I'm so comfortable". It seemed like he didn't want to get up and sleep on the sofa but I didn't invite him to stay.

We started playing a game where we tried to pick each other up. (Clearly I lost very badly, and he won by a mile. lol) At one point he picked me up and put me back down but was still holding on to me, and then he just stared in my eyes for a really long time, and started running his hands up and down my body. I kissed him very briefly - only a second - which was what my DB coach suggested (just doing a quick kiss). He pulled back so I didn't initiate again. He kept caressing me but then he looked like he was about to cry so I stopped him. He started touching me again and then stopped himself, saying "this is a bad idea, I'm drunk but you're so beautiful."

We had a pseudo R talk. We were lying down (him lying on top of me) and holding each other for the whole thing.
He told me repeatedly "I don't want to be a d**k, you're so beautiful. I just don't want to be a d**k and you're lovely." I asked him how he thought he was being a d**k but he didn't say, he just kept repeating he didn't want to be. He also said "I think we're both just really horny individuals." (Basically, I think he meant it would just be sex - or perhaps that he hasn't changed his mind about our M)

He then told me "It's really hard living with you sometimes, you're so beautiful and I get turned on all the time." Now, this wasn't good, but I lost control over the first bit and started crying. He very gently wiped the tears away from my eyes and said "why are you crying? I was complimenting you." I apologised for being hard to live with and he said "you're not. I love living with you".

H then apologised for making a move on me, and said again "I don't want to be a d**k." I told him that there was no need to apologise, it was flattering, everyone likes to be attractive. He told me "you're so brave". I kept asking him what he meant by that but he just kept repeating it, and then eventually said "because you keep smiling. You don't have to. But it's nice." (I'm still confused about what he meant by this but he wouldn't clarify) So I just said "I smile because I'm happy." And he said he was happy I was happy.

We then talked a little bit about the sex we had the other night. Of course that turned both of us on. Then he kissed me - really tenderly, and really, really long. We ML. It was completely different to the other night, which was very physical and animalistic. This time it was very tender, we kissed a LOT (pretty much the whole time) and he kept stroking my hair and holding my hand. Afterwards, we kissed and then he pulled me into his chest for a cuddle. My head fits really perfectly into this one spot on his chest and we used to call it "my spot" and always talked about how his chest was made for my head, or vice versa (in fact it was one of the first things we talked about post-BD, how much we'd both miss cuddling like that), so it felt nice but a little strange after 3 months of not having my head there.

Then we had a very weird exchange. He said "well I guess I better get in bed" and started to get up like he was going to the sofa. I didn't say anything (inside in my head I was screaming "DON'T freak out, don't tell him to stay, don't freak out" - but I was a bit upset because I'd expected him to stay, since he did last time - i know, no expectations). So I bit my tongue, and he went to hug me but I didn't really reciprocate (I know I ended up being a bit cold but oh well, it was all I could do to keep from saying something I'd regret so I couldn't fake warmth on top of it). And then he just looked at me for a few seconds and then said "Can I stay here?" I said yes, and he went and got his phone and charger from the living room and set it up next to the bed and set his alarm.

We settled in to bed. I stayed over on my side, not touching him, but he kept putting his leg up against mine and then eventually grabbed my arm and pulled it around him so I was spooning him. We used to always sleep like this.

We ended up ML a second time, and again it was very tender, with a lot of kissing, stroking each other's faces and him stroking my hair. Afterwards, he said "we *do* have really good sex." He again pulled me towards him so I was spooning him and we fell asleep like that.

So, my goal now is to remain calm and not let this throw me into a tailspin like last time. So far this morning I feel good. Then I want to figure out:
1. is this good for me?
Well, it *feels* really good and I have a very high sex drive so physically it's been very good.
Obviously, freaking out and being clingy/pursuing was not cool after it happened last weekend, so I'm not sure if it's good for my emotional health. Will see how I react this time.
In the longer term, well, a lot of my friends are warning me I will get hurt because ultimately I want to save my M and if my H doesn't I'll get hurt. Not sure I buy this because I will be hurt if we D, regardless of whether we've been ML.

2. does this move him closer to me, or further away, or nothing? / is this good for my DBing?
On the one hand, my DB coach (and I believe it's what it said in DR) said that ML can be very good because it brings a couple together. She also said that while sometimes sex is just sex to men, it's also key to men for deepening their feelings and they tend to feel connected after sex (assuming they have an emotional connection, not just sex for sex's sake).
On the other, if we take the view 'act like you are just starting to date', I definitely wouldn't be having sex at a very early stage (well, depends on how far into 'dating' we mean).

[Zues126]

Can't answer those questions, but one compass I've used to steer is asking myself this: Looking back in a year or five years, will I feel good about my decisions?

You might get hurt. You might remain attached or have expectations. There's a good chance you will, because it's possible that your H won't recommit to an M or if he does it will be a long time from now and you'll suffer from the loss before you have a chance to reconnect. But are your decisions made from a place of character, strength, doing what's best for your sitch and to support a man you committed to loving? Or are they made from fear, desperation, controlling/clinging behavior, that you will look back as degrading and cheapening to the person you are?

If you are making this decision out of strength and love and are willing to accept pain as a result because you want to live by your values and character, AND it's "working" in your sitch and supported by your DB coach, I am 100% for it.

This too shall pass. I doubt in 3 months you'll be in the same sitch. Maybe not in 3 weeks. So it's not a lifelong ordeal. Just keep making decisions in line with your values and mission.

[susana4]

Thanks Zues. Good things to think about. I think I have to answer those questions myself, and find the answers inside me. The compass you suggested sounds good to me, and I will continue to think about this.

I feel pretty good so far today. I'm happy, it's sunny out and I'm going to visit a friend. And I have cookies. Although unfortunately not as many as I'd planned to bring to my friend because H accidentally took 2 bags of cookies instead of 1. (Hmm accident? )

I feel really different to how I did last week after ML. I'm not worried about if it means anything. I'm just looking forward to seeing my friend and the rest of my weekend plans.

[Wonka]

Susana,

What a wonderful update. Two ML sessions! Wonderful.

I am going to say some things to make you think a bit more about where you are at. MWD states in her book that is okay for both spouses to ML when appropriate.

Now, keep in mind about the differences between men and women...based on what I've read. Men need the sex to feel the connection first before the emotions come. Women need to feel the emotions to feel connected first before engaging in ML.

Your H, to me, is tentative about connecting with you emotionally as I sense that he's not yet ready to be fully vulnerable which is what I think he meant by 'not being a d!ck.' That's okay because your recent 180s have confused him and yet delighted him. Keep going. You're on the right track.

At some point, H's wall will eventually crumble and there will be a real mutual bond between the two of you. It will be a while before that happens so you're going have to dig deep for some of that patience cookie.

Since you two have been GALing like crazy separately, I am thinking that you suggest that you two just go out for a fun event sometime next week. A pub with homemade brewry, improv show, etc. You two need more laughter and levity because those produce chemicals that bonds a couple.

[susana4]

Hi Wonka,
Thanks! Certainly made a nice start to the weekend.

Thanks for the insights on men vs men and sex. That makes sense and is in line with what my DB coach was saying to me after last week's LM.

Ok, that makes sense too (about him not ready to be vulnerable). I am definitely going to keep up the 180s - it's made me so much happier too. I realised how much I let negativity rule my life (in the form of criticism, panicking over small things like a plate being dropped on the floor). Life is happier without these upsets.

Patience, ok. I will dig deep for that! Thank god I have found these boards to keep me sane. Thank you so much for your continued wisdom and support Wonka!

Good idea on the activity! I will suggest something next week, when H gets back from his weekend with his college buddies.

[Zelda09]

S - my H and I ML 2-3 times ex spouse, cold and physical before the turning point.

What you describe, and I don't want to get your hopes up - every situation is different - is the feelings coming back. Session #4 for us was tender. Took him about five days before he resolved it all and realized he wanted to work it out.

Have a date, fun.
Have a talk that brings you closer together.
ML again.
Give space - Keep showing him the sexy brave Susanna he's about to lose.

Fire on all cylinders around the week if you want this.

Dignity!

[Mozza]

Well, at least someone is getting some action on these boards!

This "I don't want to be a dick" statement is worrying me, especially that he lacks the self-awareness (or honesty?) to explain it. It sounds like he's conflicted between satisfying his needs (the S) and being a Nice Guy. It's awful for us to "be a dick" because we think that to have our needs satisfied, we need to tend to the needs of others. So now he's in a bind where the two contradict. Of course, you want him to stay because he's satisfied with you, not because he's scared of hurting you. You probably haven't gotten there yet but you seem to be making progress.

Perhaps because I'm a man, I'm not as enthusiastic as Wonka and others about your recent progress. You know that I ML a lot with my EX1 after we broke up and while I had no intention of R. I think you're making progress nevertheless. I don't know yet that this road leads all the way to R. But keep rolling.

[Zelda09]

Mozza - did you ever feel the need to caress your EX1, kiss her, compliment her, cuddle with her afterward?

I had my own breakup S with exes and even as a woman, it was not emotional stuff when I knew I was done with the R.

Honest question. I just don't get the sense her H went there to just get what he wanted physically.

[Tarheel]

For what it's worth (and I'm no vet), I lean towards Mozza's perspective as well. Maybe it's because we're coming from a guy's POV, but I'll be blunt about what I see about last night- he went out with friends, came home drunk (even admitted it), wanted some 'action' and got it.

With that said, I DO see progress in your sitch. I just don't want to see you get hurt by reading too much into the ML sessions.