One good thing is you didn't wait around months before reaching out for help.
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Suffice it to say we did not have the quality time that in retrospect that we needed to keep things good between us.
On top of our lack of time together, she started gradually pulling away sexually...had I had the education I do now back then I would have realized what was going on and taken whatever steps to correct it. Instead, I became grumpy and short with her and started putting other hobbies/interests ahead of her. I will not pull any punches...I became a flat out douche on occasion and I know all that did was add stress to the situation.
Sounds like an old recipe for certain loss of connection, alright. I get why you might be grumpy, but why acting like a douche? Was it all due to her pulling away? Did you ever try to do anything to pull her closer in?
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So with all that said, now here I am with a W that is 100% sure she wants to get a S. She refuses to acknowledge that we can save our marriage and refuses to go to any sort of counseling...saying "Its too late now", "You won't ever change", etc. Also, she seems to be rewriting history by basically saying I was the worst husband ever to exist and things were always bad and I always made her cry, etc etc. You would think she married Mr. Hyde.
Sadly, I am quite familiar with that story. She won't admit the M can be saved b/c she doesn't want to try to save it. You talking her into it.......isn't going to happen. All these things she says is what every WAW says. It is like they read it from the same page. We refer to it as "script". It's actually just as well you don't try to drag her to MC, b/c it won't accomplish anything if she isn't completely on board. And making you the bad guy and rewriting history is her immediate mission. It makes her feel some type of justification, and sometimes it is to get others support. I know it must be awful for you, but worse is coming, so try not to let this part get you down too much.
I doubt it is MLC, but you do have a WAW.
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I did make the mistake of trying to reason with her on more than one occasion to try and make her see that our issues are salvageable, but all that did was frustrate her.
You won't be able to reason with her. She will not think, act, or talk logically.
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It's like I'm talking to a completely different woman than who she was just a couple of weeks ago.
She is a different woman. She's not the girl you M. She won't be that girl for as long as she's in this WAW state.
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To add to my misery is my W is a absolute stunning beauty who has no trouble attracting male attention, and the thought of her going to the bars/clubs at night with her friends without me is just tearing me up.
I'm sure it does! Is this something she has done in the past, or just started doing?
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Because of that so far we are still living under the same roof, as I don't want to see her struggle and stupidly I like her presence here as it helps me feel less alone. We get along well enough as long as I don't bring up any R talk...its just killing me so bad. Should I be pushing for her to move out and get a little taste of what reality would be like without me providing for her? I feel like that might help but I'm afraid the added distance would just be another death knell for our R. I know I should detach and GAL, its rather difficult to detach when we are both watching a movie together lol.
Be very careful here. Do not fall into the fear trap. It will paralyze you from doing effective work in the R. We will get more into what is effective next post, but just getting to know about things now.
Detaching is all in the attitude, okay? Just like you have probably learned in the military how to remove yourself emotionally or mentally and not allow certain people or actions to affect you....that is what detaching from your WAW basically is. You do not allow her words/actions/attitude to affect you....and without you acting like a jerk. Yes, it can be done! More about it next time.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Hi ababbie. Sorry that you find yourself here but you're amongst friends and people who understand what you're going through.
I, like most here can relate to a lot of the aspects of your R breakdown and sitch. Right now, this very moment as you read this, You should stop...take a deep breath...and KNOW that you will be alright come what may.
Please believe me when I say that you need to read the books (DB/DR) as soon as you can, and really try to take in the principles of them. They opened my eyes to a lot of things about myself and my M and you'll get more from the forum once you know the "nuts and bolts".
You have some great people on your thread, try to heed their advice. You'll hear time and time again on here, such advice as "detach" and "get a life" (GAL). Only you can truly decide to try and detach and it's hard at first but this should be a priority for you right now. If it's too difficult to detach from W, detach from the sitch in general...GAL will help with this.
Post often (it'll help you) and good luck.
Barry.
Me 40 W 38 T 23 M 21 S21 S19 D16 S14 BD 19/12/2014 D mentioned 27/2/2015. I filed 08/04/2015, D Absolute 04/11/2015
Sandi, you are awesome. Thank you for your insight...I am grateful for it.
My W has always been very social, so her going out is not unusual. However with her current state it is unnerving.
I think my douche ness came about as our sex life was slowly dying. I didn't realize at the time what was happening and started internalizing everything and lashing out as a result.
In hindsight I do see all the small cues she sent out that she was not happy. I really do. I have told her I realize how lonely she must have felt being taken for granted, etc...and I don't blame her for where we are currently at. I have to be a better man and husband.
Thanks, I get too wordy sometimes (okay most times).
I am going to copy & past another wordy post describing detachment. It is pretty detailed, but it helps to get the full meaning of it. A lot of people misunderstand and think you have to act cold, but it is far from it.
Healthy Detachment...(Posted by DBer Peanut originally)
I. Detachment
Detachment is critical to the process of altering and repairing a relationship.
Attached, we take personally ALL that is said, not said, done and not done.
When our ego gets wounded, we are more inclined to do/say things that undermine our goals.
When we are Detached from the actions of another, we can meet anger or indifference with love.
Met with love, we are in a position to diffuse the situation, and transform it in a way that will be in alignment with our goals.
On the flipside, detachment allows us to play it cool when we do get a positive reaction from our spouse. It is a way to break the distance/pursuer cycle.
Detachment is not withdrawal. It is not indifference. It is not the mind saying, ‘I am not getting what I want so I must pull back.’
It is the natural acceptance that we alone are responsible for how we act. We cannot control another person, but we can control how we respond to them.
We are responsible for our own actions (no one else is).
We are responsible for our own happiness. (No one else is)
PART II Detachment (found around here)
Detachment is the:
* Ability to allow S the freedom to be him/herself.
* Holding back from the need to rescue, save or fix S from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational.
* Giving S "the space" to be him/herself.
* Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with S.
* Accepting that I cannot change or control S and it was never my "duty/job" to do so.
* Establishing of emotional boundaries between me and S, so that both of us might be able to develop our own sense of autonomy and independence.
* Process by which I am free to feel my own feelings when I see S falter and fail and not to feel responsible for his/her failure, faltering or learning.
* Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring, without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing, demanind or controlling.
* Placing of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective. (=Balance is a piece of detachment).
* Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to hang on beyond a reasonable and rational point.
* Ability to let people I love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and to bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them.
* Ability to allow S to be who he/she "really is" rather than who I "want him/her to be."
IF & WHEN THESE ^^^ FACTORS ARE ADDRESSED, -
We could have a great friendship, or a great marriage. And those are treasures. _________________________
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
So my W texted me out of the blue last night reaffirming her plans...seemed she was going almost out of her way to show me all things she was doing to start this process....Setting up her insurance(s), etc etc. This was with absolutely no initiation or prompting from me.
Its starting to get very real now and I feel I'm trying to stop a runaway train. I realize that's where detachment comes into play for myself, tough tough tough.
In the meantime do I just go along with her wishes and stay out of her way? If she starts the S process do I happily sign away? My instincts are to fight and get her to wake up, but I know that will just strengthen her resolve.
The sad thing is I know I am mostly responsible for pushing her away. I lacked the relationship skills and understanding to see what was happening and I reacted in all the wrong ways. I have validated this to her on more than one occasion telling her my mean spirited and grumpy demeanor over the last six months has brought us to this point and I understand why she doesn't want to live the life we were living. I don't either and am working to change that.
Its a tragedy that it took her walking out for me to take a hard look at myself and admit my faults. I am torturing myself thinking of how over-the-top verbally mean I would get during arguments like I had to win at all costs. Why would I ever speak to the person I love more than anything in the world that way??? What the hell was I thinking? I know I deserve my current sitch, but that just makes me feel worse. Frankly, DB/DR should be a required read for all newly married couples.
One question for the vets...Do these WAW's ever snap out of their mental fog?? My W by her nature is a VERY undecisive person, yet I have never seen her more steadfast and resolute than she is now. I know she is not thinking about how much harder certain things will be for her once she is out. She has $30,000 in school debt and only makes $30,000 a year. On top of that the fact she will have to provide for her own health insurance (which is not subsidized by her employer) and to say she will be struggling is an understatement. On top of that is we both adore each others families and they adore us, we are both family oriented people and I don't think she really gets that if we all the way through with a D that those bonds on both sides will be dramatically changed.
I realize if there is an OM that might change things somewhat, but I am unsure if there is. Some of the signals have been there, but at the same time she has been applying to jobs all over the south and seems excited about it (she has always hated winter and I think she is using this break as a chance to do something about it). So if there is OM, I think it's more of a rebound/comfort thing (she did that in the past when we broke up while dating...lasted a month or so). Once again, I don't blame her at all. I blame myself for pushing her away.
Anyways, thanks for listening. It's very therapeutic to have you guys as confidants and just being able to put it all out there. Its one of the few comforts I have had of late.
Another thing that I am mentally struggling with is the problems we are having aren't years in the making. It's not like we are this tired old couple who have been bickering and lifeless for years on end. Our disconnect is 5-6 months old and was mostly brought about by her change in work schedule and never seeing each other ---- leading to her pulling away due to loss of connection ---- leading to me becoming a giant grump. I see it so clearly now and I know we can be a great couple again.
In fact, before she dropped the bomb, we had been excitedly talking about a work opportunity available to me where in about a years time I have the option of working in Florida for 5-years and then move back north. My W would have been able to finish up her Radiology degree for free (due to my G.I. Bill) and live beach front and sans winter for a good long time. I think subconsciously we were excited for the chance to break from our routine and start a new life for awhile and reconnect.
I have been dangling this Florida "adventure" to her in an attempt to save our M (bargaining I know), but now she just says "I'm so worried that living in Florida will be just like it was living here" I have validated her concerns but is still amazing that her mindset is that now, when a month ago she couldn't stop talking about it. Oh the female mind, why must you be the way you are.
Your situation is like many including mine. You received great advice from everyone. And yes detaching is your path forward. She has already started taking actions moving towards a separation, you can be sure that this will continue. She is the only one able to change the direction, and all you can do is detach and think about the situation as logically as possible. Arguing, pursuing, trying to reason with her, begging, etc will only speed things up. She does not look at the situation as you do, perhaps it is 5-6 months for you, but it could be longer for her, and the more you reason, argue, beg the more history will be re-written in her favor.
I spent about a month beg, reasoning, etc prior to implementing the Last Resort Technique (LRT). It does not help and it will erase the good progress you made already.
Read Sandi's rules and implement as many as possible. Read DR and DB. Read about WAW and about Pursuer/Distancer relationships. The more you pursue the more distance she will put between you and her.
Start to look at your situation as a best and worst case. Best case is she turns around due to your detachment. Worst case is she progresses all the way to the end, being a D. In no way does a D have to be the end of your story, but try to open up your eyes and see the whole horizon.
Keep things light, even fun. Do your best to show her all the qualities that enabled her to fall in love with you.
Me: 32 W: 29 T:8 M: 6 D4 S2 M - 8/2008 W is not happy - 1/2014 W wants D - 9/2014 W moved out - 11/2014 D filed - 1/23/2015 D'ed - 2/25/2015 Gave X the Letter - 11/10/2015
Do these WAW's ever snap out of their mental fog??
Yes. They can escape the fog. It helps if you provide a firm, but loving, nudge.
You listed some ways that W will have a difficult go at life without you. All the better. Let her live with the consequences of her choices. Life teaches hard lessons - far harder than the ones you think you can teach her.
You'll be getting lots of advice about detaching. Detaching isn't something you can just "do." Detachment is something you work toward. And that's where GAL comes in. It's actually strange how it works: the less time you spend with/around your W - and the more you focus on yourself and your own improvements - the less you'll wonder or particularly care, even, what W is doing or deciding. Detaching does not mean you're giving up; it's quite the opposite.
Your first "job" is to let go of the fear you have of losing her. If you can operate from this standpoint - and fake it 'til you make it - you'll be doing yourself and your M a huge favor.
I know you're taking all the blame right now for where your M is. But your W doesn't get a free pass. And I'll be honest: As long as you're in the "I-soooo-screwed-this-up mode," it'll be difficult, if possible, for you to re-attract your W.
Us women find decisiveness, confidence and strength very attractive in a man. Neediness and supplication = huge turn-offs.
Tips: Work on you, ab. Buy a new outfit, wear a new cologne, maybe a new shave or hair-cut? Then get a little "mysterious" every now and again; if W is around, get dressed and make plans to leave the house for a few hours. Don't tell her where you're going. If she asks, smile and say, "Just heading out for a while. Be back later!" Stay neighborly-friendly toward W. But whatever you do, don't come across as a wet noodle or a doormat. That's not hot.
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
