Hi Labug, I say confused for a few reasons, Rppfls H has been very flirty and seems prepared to cheat on Duck. He also seems to think that the R they have now is the way it should be, with H coming to house to repair home and joining family outings, etc. I see that as Rppfls H thinking that he can do whatever he wants but expects to have a type of home life. If Rppfl and H decide to D then life will be very different as Rppfl will have to move forward and live her life without H.
Alot of the sitch's on here are of a clear and 100% seperation. Kids handed over and visits for Xmas and the like. Rppfl is not near this and I think a D would change this over time. Just my thoughts.
Hmmm I don't see that as confusion on his part. I see it as entitlement maybe, but I think he's pretty clear about what he wants or thinks he should have.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
I don't see it as confusion either, Bug. I see it as manipulative and adolescent - like a high school guy who breaks up with his long term GF but wants to keep stringing her along in case he finds out down the road that she might come in handy. Not that he has devotion to her and finds that he can't imagine not being with her, but because he feels he needs a backup plan if everything blows up. He's grossly miscalculated on his part that she's going to be waiting for him and let him have that kind of power.
rpp, I *know* you don't want to be anyone's backup plan!?!?!
I think we all get conditioned that feeling joy is frivolous and entitled. I don't know if I was ever encouraged to find joy. I don't think my parents were encouraged either, so they didn't convey it to me. I think we're all more attuned to it now, though. I wouldn't consider myself a joyful person before this journey. I lived for the next fix. The next family vacation. I lived in an imaginary place where the motto was, "When XXX happens, I'll be happy(ier)." It was an illusion. Because being happy is committing oneself to staying in that state. Choosing happiness. For me, it all starts with a grateful heart. Once I get myself to a place of thankfulness, I feel joy.
rpp, since Raliced brought up the options that being a gifted CPA brings, I'd just like to throw out an idea. I have a friend here who also has a CPA, worked for one of the big firms for years and was generally dissatisfied with her career when she left. Then she took a job with a local chapter of a cancer charity and her life changed dramatically. For the first time in decades, she felt joy that her training brought her to such a deserving organization. Have you considered using your super powers to drive a cause or charity about which you feel great passion? Maybe Doctors without Borders? Or some other group that could really use your talents? I think a lot of people steer clear because they can make more money working for Deloitte or some other M/A auditing group. You've got a huge heart, so why not create that joy with a career? That way, your joy doesn't depend on others.
I'm not saying your children can't bring joy. But it's *their* joy that they share with you. They want to see YOUR joy as well.
LOL, my D21 actually commented on that last night when she called me to share information about the career fair and internship possibilities. She asked me what I was doing, and I told her I was buffing a $7 chair I bought at a thrift shop that I had painted and upscaled. She said, "Mom, I thought that the painting thing was fun, but that it would be a fad that you'd lose interest in really quickly, but you sound so happy. Buffing isn't that much fun, so I figure that you just really like it." HA! I do! It's my current way to diffuse my anxiety. Even my parents have told me that it's good to talk to me and hear happiness on a daily basis. If you don't think people don't notice that, well, you're dead wrong.
Of course you're afraid of change. Some people are better at it than others, but other than death and taxes, change is one thing we're all guaranteed in this lifetime. If we don't change, we stagnate. It's as much an indicator of growth as a yardstick is to measuring height of kids each year.
I was much like you when I was in your shoes in that place and time. "What if's" ruled my head. It prevented me from jumping rather than letting sh!t happen to me. I have some dear friends who I met here who encouraged me to not only accept change, but to invite it into my life. It all started with a book called Fear the Fear and Do It Anyway. The exercises made me realize just how paralyzed I really was. I still have my moments of wanting to turn it down. But I find that it wastes valuable time and I just don't have free rent for that kind of thinking anymore.
I don't think you want to go through the rest of your life asking yourself these questions, and I also don't think you want a life of mediocrity and ambivalence. You truly don't seem like that sort of person.
After all, look at George Bush (senior)... who went skydiving for his 90th birthday. I'll tell you, *that* humbled ME. What a great role model. I don't think you have to go that far, but consider doing something that surprises you (that's good for you)???
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Alot of the sitch's on here are of a clear and 100% seperation. Kids handed over and visits for Xmas and the like. Rppfl is not near this and I think a D would change this over time. Just my thoughts.
RD, while that much seems to be true, there are those of us who don't need this kind of delineation to move forward and live live fully without our spouses. I truly believe that it can be a choice, if the spouses/former spouses agree that it works for them. I'm one of those people. While I don't go over to my XH's house on weekends, that doesn't mean that occasionally he or I can't engage periodically as more than 2 parents who talk about kids. Every once in awhile, he'll ask me to join him and my D17 for dinner. Or to come over for a BBQ. We actually travel together during our D21's volleyball seasons because it's economical, we get help from each other with our youngest (who is developmentally disabled), and because we don't have expectations of each other. If either he or I decided it wouldn't work for us, we wouldn't do it. But it does. So we do. Yet, I've been D for almost 10 years now and living apart from him since 2003. He's got a GF and I respect that. And I am detached. We've both moved on and yet here we are.
I only say this because we are all different. There is not one template that fits all. I certainly think things will change if they D, but they don't have to be physical... more of a mental thing.
Just a thought. Or two.
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Hi Underdog, I admit to not knowing your sitch but I assume you a your ex always have had this type of R since the spilt. I can see how things would settle over time but I imagine for alot of people who are left for OP, the hurt would take along time to get over.. I am speaking from my own perspective. 25 years together and W leaves to spend time with OM. While I am dealing with it the best I can, I don't see W and her BF coming over for lunch anytime soon. I can see I'm in the minority here and as always I am no vet.
Bet's (Underdog) sitch is a bit different. Her XH left her for Jack Daniels...no OW at all. I think their healing journey differs a bit from those of us who had face and deal with OW/OM. A betrayal is a whole different ball of wax than just Jack Daniels. Not minimizing Bets' or their girls' pain at all. Just that Bets walked in a different pair of moccasins than those of us who had to contend with the OW/OM in DBing.
RD, you're not a minority - everyone is different.
And no, we didn't always have this R. We were really angry with each other for awhile. Angry enough that I threatened to run him over in my car and angry enough that we could barely talk for at least the first 6 months of our separation and very infrequent communication for at least the next 6 months.
The only reason I addressed this is because I think we all should be more careful with others in regards to our beliefs, because 1) we don't know them in real life, 2) we don't have their spouse's side of the story, and 3) what we believe shouldn't be the template for the advice we give others. I know that's a tall order.
Besides, I respect that you and your W probably aren't going to find friendship after this. As I said earlier, sometimes it just isn't possible for a variety of reasons. But sometimes it is. For me, it took a few years before I realized that I still liked him as a person. Just not as a husband. I'm not fond of his GF, though. I don't dislike her, but something just seems off to me about her. I haven't figured out what yet. Not that it's any of my business.
Take care too- Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
I'm having an iron infusion today, it's an all-day process. Most of the people here are chemo patients. I am very grateful that's not my issue today.
Originally Posted By: rd500
Hi Rppfl, no tips, sorry. just my point of view but it seems to me that you are not sure waht you want. Is it H you want back or the idea of H ?
RD I've asked myself this a dozen times lately and I consistently come back to "it's the fantasy" that I wanted. I worked so hard at having the "perfect" family. Time to let that go and focus on how good real life can be. And H is not capable of showing the love and affection I want. I never want to go back to thinking that I'm not thin enough and my closet is not clean enough to earn my H's love. And I don't want to suppress my emotions for fear they'll be met with anger. That's no more a way to live than living in fantasy world.
Originally Posted By: bdub
rpp: Could you be rewriting your marital history a little? It is VERY easy to do. It goes both ways. You can rewrite to emphasize the positive or the negative.
I don't mean to imply that I didn't have happy times with H, of course we had good times together. Vacations, times with friends, fixing up. three houses together. But to me "joy" implies a different level of happy, something brief and intense. It was never an intense relationship in any way.
Before I met H I had a very intense R. It was the happiest I've ever been and at times the most miserable I've ever been. And obviously that didn't work out, although we are still friends of sorts. (But I haven't seen him in 20 years, just to clear that up.) And then I had the rather dysfunctional R I've mentioned before. H seemed like a guy I could grow old with, without the risk of burning out. The lack of intensity was a choice, but I may have traded in the concept of joy.
What Wonka said is the absolute truth. I don't have that betrayal in front of me. I was the one who had the EA. Not him.
Yet, I will tell you that it wasn't any less painful to see for myself that I couldn't compete with the pull of the liquor store. Being left because he found isolation and depression a better alternative was a pretty sh!tty thing for me.
There's a song by now defunct Highway 101 that summed up my journey back in 2003: Whisky, If You Were a Woman...
Wonka, ultimately all the paths that we or our spouses took were rooted in despair, unhappiness and depression, and they truly believed that we were the cause. There used to be some wise folks around here that would remind the lovely people here that cheating is a symptom of other things going on. It's true. For me, I had that EA that came perilously close to a PA because my then H wasn't investing any effort into having a R with me. Dumb on my part, but I was desperate.
We all have different journeys...
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Wonka, ultimately all the paths that we or our spouses took were rooted in despair, unhappiness and depression, and they truly believed that we were the cause. There used to be some wise folks around here that would remind the lovely people here that cheating is a symptom of other things going on. It's true. For me, I had that EA that came perilously close to a PA because my then H wasn't investing any effort into having a R with me. Dumb on my part, but I was desperate.
