I do not know for sure she is wayward. She stays with a friend. And w and OM have a no contact order. we do not communicate. I'm not sure how to handle this.
I sound like an idiot. I kicked her out a month ago because she was having an EA with OM and had a previous PA witg him while I was gone. W believed she was in love with him when I kicked her out. There is no way she came around that fast considering two weeks ago she was slamming me for the NC order he received. She is probably gonna ask for D. I know it's mind reading but he'll should I not prepare for worst. If we do talk
Doh. Two minutes. Personal record. I think this is what Starsky was referring to:
Types of Convos
Exactly. Here's the thing: if someone is in an ongoing, unrepentant affair, there are only a few types of conversations/communications they can have with their betrayed spouse, and ALL of them are cheeseless tunnels for the BS:
2) Seemingly POSITIVE ones. So long as they are still in contact with OM/OW and lying to their spouse about it, these are all "bullchit spin" at best, and outright GASLIGHTING and LIES at worse. And the problem is, the betrayed spouse inevitably sees this as "baby steps!" and true marital progress, when they are no such thing. They can lead to horrible strategic and tactical mistakes, esp. if the BS doesn't have a good intel system in place. Reading my old journal yesterday, I was BLOWN AWAY at how stable I was able to be in the face of my wife's deceit, simply because I HAD INTEL TO SHOW ME OTHERWISE. This can't be overemphasized.
3) LEGAL/FINANCIAL ones. These are best handled by your attorney, for the obvious reasons. If you start negotiating yourself, when you are way, way, WAY too emotionally entrenched in the situation (and also often running on too-little sleep and WAY too-little emotional needs of your own being met), YOU WILL MAKE FOOLISH MISTAKES and UNWISE CONCESSIONS.
4) FAMILY/LOGISTICAL ones. These are fine, but best handled via e-mail or text message. A cheating spouse will use these as a ploy to lure you into R convos and worse; SEE #1 ABOVE.
5) SMALL-TALK. This is fine, but only in RESPONSE -- don't initiate it if your strategy is to go "dim" and if it's to go "dark" you shouldn't even respond. If it's "dim," then only respond to one of every several communications, and usually delayed, because you're BUSY and GETTING A LIFE, remember?
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
That's a great post train. I recognise all those situations above. Got hit with No1 last night. Regularly get No2 not had to deal with 3 yet 4 we briefly talked about, 5 I get every day.
Rysin I would tread real careful. As you already know things just don't turn around that quick. If it is a divorce talk then you need to stop the conversation and refer it to your L. I'm not sure I'd want to get in any talks. I made this mistake 2 weeks ago where she was balling her eyes out all weekend throwing bones of hope at me I got involved was weak and gave her and me comfort. 2 days later she was back to lying and meeting OM.
Me:40 W:35 D:8 T:13 M:10 WAW: 7/14 PA Discovered: 1/15 at least 6 months Moved out and moved on
Train, Oh boy where to start, so W shows up at my house and says she wants to talk about our mutual friend that is coming into town and how we are going to split time spent with him, so i agree. Sly little bugger she is. She then transfers into talking about what we are going to do about our situation in the future. I said I am not comfortable talking about this right now. She says listen i do not want to talk about feelings or anything i just wanna talk about facts and the future of us. So slap my head with a 2x4 I agreed. she started by stating that when we were happily married that we both agreed that we could never live with infidelity. she says, you kissed a girl once and everything else was fuzzy so you say, and i got an emotional attachment with someone back here. did not mention the PA. she then states these were our beliefs and she still stood by them. I ask so what are you saying, she said i just don't see where we go from here. i said ok i understand that its a tough spot we are in right now i can see how you feel that way. i then said lets keep looking at facts. once when we were happily married you stated that you could never see how someone would cheat on their spouse yet here we are a product of that same belief and fact. why do you not stand by that belief like you are the one that ends with me and you ending.
i then said to her, let me make this very clear W i do not want a divorce. i still see some sliver of hope. She tried to play the im miserable card. she look at me and said, i've lost 10 lbs, im on meds now, i am completely unhappy and i refuse to live this way. i look at her and i said, so you believe by getting rid of me you will be happy. she said i dont know but i think so. I asked if this had anything to do with OM she said a little bit but most of it was from the way i handled the entire situation. again trying to throw blame on me and say i have done everything my way and never cared about her feelings, and all she wanted to do was go back to doing acrobatics and gymnastics. I said you can do all those things still. She got angry and was like no i cant since you put that NC on OM i cant go do those things. i said look no one is telling you, you cant go. he is the one that needs to leave. she tried defending him choosing acro over her. i said doesn't it show you something that he chose acro over you. and i left it at that.
As the convo went on it was apparent what she was trying to get me to do. as we would talk the circle kept coming back to that NC on OM. i finally told her look, i want to try and make this work baby steps and then who knows but it is obvious you don't want to. she states that she cant give me what i want cause she is in love with another person. I looked at her and said if he is what you want so badly then you know what you have to do. I played her card back on her. i said you need to woman up and file for D. at first she agreed and started walking with the idea but i never backed down. i kept telling her its not what i wanted but if she filed i would not stop her.
She then asks me why i never followed through with the plan that was in the book that we were trying out when i got back. it was called "surviving the affair" i said because you could even go two weeks without contacting OM. she instantly says yeah well there was also plan B why did you never follow through with plan B. now plan B is to allow your spouse to go to OM/OW and for you to go totally dark. legally separate and let them find out what was what. So now we have come to the full reason of the visit and the entire conversation. She used everything in her arsenal to soften me up to try and get me to remove the NC on OM so she could be with him and let us try " " plan B. I said what kind of man would i be to drop the charges and just let you go sleep and live with another man. she tried drawing into another argument. she asked me what i would have done to OM if i was not in the military i said i probably would have destroyed his face. she goes well at least that is the manly way to handle things. I looked at her ans said listen i do not like how you are talking to me and if you continue we are going to have to end this conversation. so we go around the D word allot her saying she see's no other alternative and me saying i don't want it but i will not stop her from filing each and every time.
Finally she says i don't want D i just want for you to try plan B with me. i said why does plan B matter if in the end you are not going to leave this island with me why does it even matter. you already said you will not leave with me. i said so D me and go live your life. well boy how the too changed. so anyhow i said i could not answer her right then on the plan B thing and i need to just think. she said she needed to think as well. and we left it as that.
tomorrow i am going to see a lawyer and see what my rights are. this has really taken a turn for the worst. but then again i knew it was coming and i knew the moment she started talking what her angle and ploy was and i didn't fall for it. i'm not going to make it that easy on her. sorry for such a long blog
Sorry, man -- we tried to warn you. YOU GOT AMBUSHED, as was foreseeable.
More later, when I'm on a regular keyboard. She (and you?) are NOT understanding "Plan B" correctly. It's NOT to be instituted by the cheating spouse, and it's NOT so that the cheating spouse "can go be with her OM"!!!!!
ahh sorry to hear this. Think you knew this was coming though. defo go and see that lawyer. do not put it off any longer. You need to know where you stand for your own piece of mind
Me:40 W:35 D:8 T:13 M:10 WAW: 7/14 PA Discovered: 1/15 at least 6 months Moved out and moved on
She then asks me why i never followed through with the plan that was in the book that we were trying out when i got back. it was called "surviving the affair" i said because you could even go two weeks without contacting OM. she instantly says yeah well there was also plan B why did you never follow through with plan B. now plan B is to allow your spouse to go to OM/OW and for you to go totally dark. legally separate and let them find out what was what.
She TOTALLY mischaracterizes what Harley's "Plan B" is! It is NOT to be initiated by the wayward spouse, and its purpose is NOT to "allow" them to go carry on their affair, in some sort of sick "test drive" while the betrayed spouse sits and home and plays "Pick Me!" It is for the BETRAYED spouse -- after a period of being the best-new-them they can possibly be ("Plan A"), to then (if the cheating spouse still refuses to end their affair) go completely pitch-dark on them. I've read the suggested scripts for it, and NOWHERE in there is there ANYTHING that even smacks of "permission" for the cheating spouse to continue cheating!
But then I suppose you already know that. I'm just saying for any others reading along.
Rys, my advice at this point would be to see a lawyer and go totally "RobX" on her. You repeatedly telling her "I still don't want a divorce," and "I still see a sliver of hope for us," and defending your position is only weakening you further in her eyes (notice her interesting comment about "being a man" buried in the middle of her rant up there ^^^) -- it's killing attraction, and ATTRACTION is the first step back towards reconciliation.
ATTRACTION ----> RESPECT ----> LOVE ----> RECONCILATION
Maybe it's time for a "You know, I've decided that this totally isn't working for me, either" speech and stance.
I think this is what Starsky was referring to: 
It is for the BETRAYED spouse -- after a period of being the best-new-them they can possibly be ("Plan A"), to then (if the cheating spouse still refuses to end their affair) go completely pitch-dark on them. I've read the suggested scripts for it, and