Tootling along.

[DaddyLongShanks]

ill get told off now but you could have said

"tell someone who gives sh1t"

its just a joke everyone, I don't actually mean it

I understand. In the case of a WAS or WAH, you can always say "Don't tell me, tell the OM/OW. Let them do that for you"
it's a good and proper comeback to many demands or requests.

[Sotto]

Thanks Starsky. I have no independent intel in place. Since I moved out in July I haven't 'snooped' as such. Although I do a little 'tabletop browsing' when I visit our FH 2 hours away. So, I guess it's do nothing for now on the A front..

I don't think restating my boundary on OW is needed right now as H is actually telling me we're done and kind of asking me, are we done? And kind of reaching out?

I'm seeing my L next week & will respond to H query about selling the house which we bought and own 50/50. I'm glad that's come up from him as I didn't want to force that issue due to impact on SS14. But if it has come from H, he can 'own' that one, and it will certainly help my finances.

Having done a 'holding' email on the house and R stuff, I'll also start thinking about a response to those. BTW, the joke above is in response to H telling me he was just made redundant yesterday, and a bunch of other stuff about the A being 'stupid' and he'd forgotten what was important....etc..

[edz]

I don't think restating my boundary on OW is needed right now as H is actually telling me we're done and kind of asking me, are we done? And kind of reaching out?

Hi Toots

I think the above is the crux of it, he doesnt (to me reading what youve posted) seem to be making a statement of it's over as much as saying its over unless you think its not. May just be me misreading or something lost in translation though and I certainly wouldnt want to push false optimism, just seems to be put in a way thats open to interpritation.

I know my w started off with more or less well we're heading for divorce in two years (no fault admitted) see ya. And now we're, well bad example, I have no flippin clue!

[Vanilla]

Toots

Ignore the emotional stuff. Leave it be, if H wants to R or consider it then he will say directly unequivocally.

You have been warm enough, H knows the door is open. let him push it, then in with your boundaries and questions. You do need to warm.

Until then L and look after Toots. There is more to know, let it unfold. Save the texts.

Vanilla

[jim0987]

Hi Toots,

I really dont want to give you false hope but when i first read your summary of the email and then reread it just now, personally I saw the opposite conclusion to you

rather than 'Ive decided we're done' i read more 'i'm resigned to us being done because i dont see the way back'

the second of these is where there is the possibility of a chink of light, like a trepidatious 'please tell me its not all over' but there isnt a way to know for definite right now and i certainly wouldnt act on that basis.

Even if it were an unequivocal its all over, what would you do differently today/tomorrow? havent you already had that message at somepoint since or on BD and yet you have opted a different acceptance of that message.

it certainly a conundrum of what to do but i think sending a holding message is good. you also need to work out what you really want.

[Sotto]

Thanks to you all. I'm just trying to regroup today and think about the rest of my response. There seems to be a view that H is saying "it's over...but then backtracking a bit and asking do I think it's over? Is that what I want?

There also seems to be a mixed view on whether I should even respond to the R stuff. I do feel I don't want to 'toy' with him right now, given his redundancy and general state of his life. Is this time for me to restate my original position on R?

"What has happened to us isn't what I wanted, but I do realise that whatever happens I'll be okay. I deserve to be with someone who is 100% committed to me, truthful and faithful. I still hope that ends up being you.

If you want our relationship and our marriage to end, I fully respect and accept that. I realise I need to let you go and I won't stand in your way, but it isn't what I want."

I won't post anything until I have views on this. My L appt is next Wed, so in respect of the house I can tell him I want to a) think about that some more? b) get some advice? and will get back to him middle of next week. I don't feel I want to leave it that long in terms of the R stuff though if I'm going to respond on that.

I'm just a bit unsure about my approach here...part of me wonders if I should tell him I don't understand what he's asking. Is he asking me whether I think things are over, or is he telling me he wants them to be over? Or saying to him....you said you wished you'd put that differently. How do you wish you'd put it?

I'll take it nice and slow and make sure I'm comfortable with what I'm trying to do here before I respond.

There's also the unknown quantity of the A - obviously crucial and he's in no doubt about my stance on that as I was rock solid firm on my boundary of no open marriage from the outset. But if he's saying he was stupid, got caught up in something, and lost sight of what was important - my hunch is it may well be over....but who knows with a WAW? He may just be pretty low and telling me what he thinks I want to hear...

Any advice would be welcome!

[susana4]

Hi Toots,
On the house stuff I think you should definitely leave it till you've spoken to the L. On the R thing, I don't think there's anything wrong with restating your position (the way you stated it is very much a declaration of fact, and not pushing him or asking for anything), but maybe a vet will have a different view. Hopefully one will come along and help you draft a reply.

[edz]

Morning Toots

Yes I can see what you're saying, I like what you wrote but may be worth a vet taking a look as well esp someone who know more than I do about WAS and OP involvement.

It sounds to me like you not only made your boundry strong and clear regarding no open marriage but also that you've stayed consistent in that message so I wouldnt doubt H knows it. May be worth seeing why he thinks things are over if indeed he does.

[gan]

Toots, I think the wording is ok but I'm just really not sure on what the strategy should be. Hope a vet comes along sometime soon.

"I deserve to be with someone who is 100% committed to me, truthful and faithful."
-> potentially guilt-inducing?

[jim0987]

*He was made redundant yesterday
*He'd known it might happen (industry downturn)
*He's started looking, but may be out of work for a while
*He thinks we should start selling the family home
*He can't maintain house and flat in longer term
*We should figure out what to do & do it together

*Last year he did something very stupid
*He's still very sorry that he hurt me
*He forgot what was important in life and got all caught up in something
*I'm a special person and he's never been as happy again as he was with me
*But, he doesn't think we can ever go back now
*Hard as it is to say, he needs to tell me he'll continue into a new stage in his life now
*But he doesn't know what it holds for him

*He hopes I won't take his email as presumptuous
*As though he might decide what's best for us
*He didn't intend it that way
*He knows I have my own life now
*He hopes it is happy and only wishes the best for me
*The more he things about it, he wishes he'd put things differently
*He hopes I understand it isn't always easy to write things

reposting these bits because its ultimately what we are talking about here.

Hi Toots, I hope you dont mind but im going to offer my typically ill informed opinion but i hope it helps in some way.

On the house front, i think wait until you've spoken to your solicitor. if he asks say its because you want to understand this from a legal perspective.

so looking at his first email there are a few questions that it raises for me (NOT suggesting you ask these to him)
1) what is happening with the A, the intimation here is that its over but you cant know
2) he forgot what was important - So what does he think is important
3) he doesnt think you could go back - why not? and Toots, would you want to?
4) what does he want from the new stage of his life

The second also raises some questions for me
5) why does he think its presumptious?
6) if he wishes he put it differently, how does he wish he put it? What is he really trying to tell you here?

I clearly cant answer these but i think they are important questions. I dont know if you can tell more from the actual emails and your knowledge of H

I'm not convinced restating your position/boundary is the right way to respond to this. it feels a bit like out of kilter and for once im struggling with an appropriate movie based metaphor to explain. I guess sometimes stating this stuff doesnt always project confidence, just being self assured does.

my feeling is that you want to be warm but self-assured, reassuring but detached. personally i would try to engage with the content of his emails. Something like

'H

Don't worry it wasnt presumptious. I understand that things are uncertain for you at the moment and that you are just trying to figure out whats next for you. And if you feel that you wanted to say something differently then please do, I know how hard I find it sometimes to express exactly how i feel.

I think you're right and that together we should figure out the best plan for both of us with regard to the family home. we can try and find some time to talk about it sometime after the middle next week if that suits, i'm afraid i'm stacked up until then.

Thank you for your kind words, I too was happy while we were together. If there is anything this last year has taught me it is how to appreciate the value and happiness in my life.

Toots'

I might be way off, but i though its better to consider different options.

my memory is failing me and i dont have vanilla's notes. Can you remind me what his complaints were about the marriage (the ones you can believe)