newcomer now receives mail in Hell

[Jack_Three_Beans]

I'll respond tomorrow. I DB 8-4pm Alaska Time.

Till then keep up the good work.

And friendzoned? Its a fictitious place passive aggressive guys make up because they aren't honest enough with a woman about what they want in a relationship...so it should be pretty easy to avoid; right?

[labug]

Don't most R start with being friendly?

[Jack_Three_Beans]

Bravo,

A couple of things.

1) If you're looking for a definitive secret process...there isn't one. This is all trial and error, with the hope that the errors aren't serious enough to doom the process.

So the adage: Keep doing what works, is fundamental.

2) MY strength is with MLC, and I don't think your wife is in one. So my tactics are founded in a LONG game, nothing quick...and I don't recommend it if you don't have to...in fact I'm not sure I recommend it if you do have too. : )

For you I hope Starsky; Mr Bond and some others take you under their wing, you have some pretty good positives here that I think can be built on.

3) Please remember this though...everyone is unique here...we ALL have the same problems and we all make the same mistakes...over and over and over again and I can tell you right now we all know how your going to defend yourself when you make mistakes or go off the program. : ) But we are all unique in how we react or interact or have others(Spouse) interact with us. So if advice is not working even from a Vet, don't be afraid to tell them and to change it.

YOU are BOOTS on the ground, we are safe in the bunker drinking coffee giving you orders, you shouldn't wait for us to tell you to duck, right?

oh yeah and then this as a positive:

learned patience;

LOL...no you haven't. Not yet. : )

So advice.

Can you enjoy what you have at the moment? Does something need to change, or can this last awhile longer before you change it up and see it it gets better or worse?

Changing it up will make it better or worse...it might stay the same, but unlikely. So you need to be able to accept the new outcome, a bad one will result in lost effort, she might not be ok with coming over and watching TV with you even if you go back to what you were doing before the change.

So I'll ask does it need to change right now?

about your negatives:

oh yeah, AND WE'RE DIVORCED!

Yeah...so whats the worst that can happen? Will she divorce you again?

Sometimes you can only go up, and that's not bad actually.

[bravo61]

i appreciate your insight Jack.

just got back from a pretty much two day trip to Seattle with the kids. they had never ridden on a real train before so they loved that. we did a lot of stuff in just a little time. let's see, we went to the space needle, seattle children's museum, rode the monorail, seattle aquarium, the great wheel (big ole ferris wheel), and visited the world famous pike place market. not to bad for a single dad that had never been there before. it was a challenge doing it all (well almost all) on foot with D4 and S8 and traversing the various transportations. never really felt comfortable or wanted to do anything like this in my past life. we had a GREAT time. at times i did miss having a partner (her specifically).

during the trip, the XW called and talked to the kids and then wanted to talk to me. she said she was so proud of me and that the kids sounded so happy.

she watched the show without me. i was hoping she would wait for me but oh well. her schedule (work) has been and will be packed the past few and next several days. don't know when we would've watched but it woulda been nice.

on a side note, kids are already asking when/where our next great adventure will be so i better get to planning. also, i have been trying to teach the kids about helping others so D gave her boxed up fries to a bum by herself and i was really proud. she walked up and said "are you hungry? you can have my fries". it was very sweet.

so i guess for right now, it is status quo with the XW. i'll still let her drive the train so far as time spent together. any suggestions/ideas are always appreciated.

hope everyone has a good day!

[bravo61]

Been awhile since I posted.
Not much has happened. We haven't watched the show together again yet. We have had a couple of interactions that in the past would have turned into fights and blaming. But with the behavior I've learned and used all these months, that was averted.

She told me that she might pick up a shift that would keep her from coming over to watch the show but that she would let me know. Well she didn't (and no I had no expectations). Instead, I saw that she had gone out drinking with her friends via FB pic post. Instead of calling her on it immediately, I thought about why it bothered me. It bothered me that she didn't let me know as she said she would.

The next dday when she came to pick up D, I very calmly explained to her that I wasn't mad but that I'd like to have a relationship in which there is a level of trust (this has been a huge problem making promises to the kids and I get to deal w/their disappointment) for each other. She knew immediately what I was talking about & to her credit she wasn't as defensive as she has been before. I told her it was fine and I'll never bring it up again as I'm done with the scorekeeping. She tried to go into what all she did that night & I gently told her it was none of my business. She apologized and said that she had a rough time working nights & all the shifts. She said that her scheduling and remembering things,even to send off bills, has really suffered. I empathized and let her know that I'm sure she's doing the best she can. When she left she gave me a big hug and even smiled & waved from the car.

Later on that evening I sent her a text to thank her for listening. She responded that she was sorry again and thanked me for being gracious.

Part two in next post

[bravo61]

My S let me know that she has my FB page blocked from her feed. He asked her if she ever sees the pics of our adventures and she said no they don't come up on her phone. Guess the things she is missing out on would be painful.

Second almost confrontation occurred when she wanted the kids on a Tuesday. The agreement gives me a minimum of two consecutive days but the yearly overnight totals are higher to factor in change in shift, sick days, just extra now and then but don't specify. For around the past month 1/2 I've had them from Sun-wed am. She's worked a lot (& gone out) so she decided that since she was working Wed-Fri, she wanted to see them more than just at bedtime. She told me on Fri that she wanted them. I kept my cool & stated that wasn't my preference(but knew I couldn't do anything bout it). I picked them up on Sun and she could tell I was still bothered. I don't said I'm gonna miss them on Tuesday. She looked me dead in the eye and said "I've missed them. I get a turn". I almost flipped my shi!t!!!!! Instead I gave no hug turned and walked away.

Randomly, the next day, she sent a text saying that she had gotten a massage that was covered by a gift cards that my D gave her for Christmas a d thanked me. I didn't respond.

So on Tuesday, she picked up D. She said I seemed mad. Told her I wasn't but that the I get a turn comment didn't sit right with me. She said that she "feels as if I'm mad". I calmly ask her if I've raised my voice or said any unkind thing to her to which she could only respond no (I said all with a wry smile and a quiet voice). I explained that I was sorry that she missed the kids & I understand I miss them too. But this is the choice that she made that we ALL have to live with. I asked her if she could put herself in my shoes how she would feel (she turned her head away at this point and cast her eyes down). She said that she's given me extra days, I told her I appreciate that & they also happened to coincide w/benefiting her(ie going out, working xtra shifts). I explained that even if I got them 3 days a week, she gets them four. What happens on my days I'm responsible for & vice versa.

Walked them out to the car and put D in. Asked her if they were gonna be around on Vday (had stuff for the kids). She said they will but she's going out to a tasting w/a female friend for a few hours so they'll have a sitter.

READ THAT LAST LINE AGAIN. I didn't say anything and I didn't lose my shi!t. I pick them up on Sun so she's giving up half of her only day off w/the kids to do that. After taking one of my usual days.
The kids notice stuff like that

She gave me a hug and thanked me for being gracious. Once again gave a smile & wave when she left.

Both of these occurrences were HUGE progress for me and total 180s from whom I used to be. I'm giving her an example to pattern herself after and if she chooses not to that fine, I'll still be a person I'm proud to be.

[Jack_Three_Beans]

Bravo,

I don't have much to add except good job. You're getting upset appropriately and maintaining your calm otherwise.

Damn good job.

[bravo61]

On the GAL front my kids an I have:
Gone to a rollerderby match
Been exploring restaurants downtown
Been to a NBA game
I gave a profession of faith in church that turned into a small testimony-even apologized to my S for not being the example I should've been & told him how proud of him & how much I love him
Randomly drove to next state for candy for the kids
We are going to be "greeters" at church this Sun
D and I took candy (westerners no less) & flowers to a local retirement home
D and I passed out "candy for smiles" downtown

We've done so much fun stuff that I've had to assure a friend that yes, I do homework with the kids, they have chores, we read the bible and pray together, and still cuddle on the couch at night. All the mundane less glamorous everyday stuff.

And speaking of no scorecards, after the "I get a turn exchange" I took the kids to the mall for them to pick her out b day gifts.

I got her a card and I'm sending flowers (daisys). Her Grandmother used to send her b'day flowers (as if they came from her Grandfather) but since she died, XW figured it out & has missed them. It's cool cause I have no expectations for her even to acknowledge them. I'm doing it for me, because I want to, because it's the right thing.

[bravo61]

Thanks for your kind words Jack. It is gratifying to own the responses to my anger now instead of being owned. I don't really have to think about it really.

[bravo61]

Candy referred above: Werthers. Dang spell check!