I've been reading the boards for a little while now and thought it was time to start posting. This is probably going to be fairly long, so thanks for taking the time to read. Here is the background.
My H and I have been together for 4 years and married for just over 2 years. We met at a Christmas party in 2010. About a month after we met, he took a job in another state. At first we decided not to do long distance, but continued talking and eventually started visiting each other. Once a month turned into twice, then turned into three times and eventually he decided to move back to FL. We were long distance for 8 months. During that time we got to know each other very well as we really could only talk to each other. We spent hours on the phone every night, we did the a daily devotional, went thorugh the book of questions, really got to know each others values, goals, fears. We also talked about marriage and having kids. I had been married before and was not in a rush to do it again unless it was with the right person. He knew that my previous H had a long term PA and was an alcoholic (who eventually drank himself to death). I was also older than he was and made it clear that I wanted a family and didn't want to wait too long. I knew he was young and may not be ready for that, but he assured me that he wanted a family too and was ready. We seemed to be on the same page.
About a month before he moved back, we got engaged. We were engaged a little over a year before we were married. Soon after we married, we started trying to get pregnant. Every month when it didn't happen we were both frustrated.
About 6 months into the marriage, things started to change. I just felt like he stopped making me a priority. He and I are total opposite personalities. I am an introvert and he is an extrovert to the extreme. I like to go out and do things, but I also value my alone time, while he can’t sit at home for an hour before he wants to go out and do something. When I didn’t feel like going out, I always encouraged him to go anyway, hang out with his friends. Most of the time he chose not to because he didn’t want to go by himself, but I feel he started resenting me for that. I remember the first big fight we had. We were going to the beach with our bible study group after church and that morning while on a run, I had hurt my leg. I could barely walk. I made it through church and to the beach. I was in pain. It started raining so everyone decided to go bowling instead. At that point, all I wanted to do was go home and lay down, but I told him to go have fun. H took me home, said he would be home in a few hours and would bring home dinner. After a few hours I texted him to see when he was coming home and he said he was leaving. Another hour passed and he still wasn’t home. I texted again and he had not left and was now playing darts. When he got home, I lost it. These types of things had been going on for a little while and I just had enough. We got in a huge fight and I said I wasn’t sure if we had made the right decision getting married.
Things didn’t change. We talked about seeing a counselor, but neither of us did anything about it. A few weeks after our 1st anniversary, we were at a friend’s wedding where H was a groomsman. He had been acting distant and the day of the wedding was very rude to me when he was done with his groomsman duties. Wasn’t hanging out with me, was avoiding me and taking shots with his buddies. Before dinner was served, I was feeling emotional so I left and went to another room. He followed me and we got into an argument. No yelling, but I was crying and really felt hopeless at that point. I didn’t want to ruin our friend’s wedding, so I told him I couldn’t keep doing this and was going to leave. I told him to stay and have fun. The next morning when I talked to him something was off. We started talking about the night before and he admitted that he was very emotional after I left and drank too much and kissed another girl. He said that he realized immediately what he had done and stopped it and that was as far as it went. At that moment something in me changed. He knew about my past and had promised that he would never do anything like that to me. I was hurt and more so, angry.
We immediately went to see the pastor who married us and started seeing MC. Things were bad for a few months, we argued all the time, I screamed and yelled and mentioned the D word often. I felt like I turned into a different person. We considered getting a divorce, but ultimately decided to work on our marriage. We didn’t do it right though. We were good for about 6 months, but never really fixed our issues, just put a band-aid on them. As time went on, he began to get distant again. We would try to talk about it in counseling, but for the most part he would just sit there. I felt he got more and more selfish and I became further down on the priority list. I would hold my hurt feelings in for as long as I could and then he would do something selfish and I would explode.
Everything came to a head on 10/4/14. He had been out of town all week for work and we were having people over for a football game on Saturday. He got home that morning and we had a disagreement over money. We had people over and then after they left were just sitting on the couch watching football together. Some friends invited us over to their house, but I was tired and just wanted to spend some time with him. He said he was going anyway. I felt like I couldn’t take it anymore. I blew up, I screamed and yelled, I said I hated him, I said I couldn’t be married to him anymore….and a host of other things I’m sure. I reacted with emotion, and a lot of it. He left and went to the friend’s house anyway. In that moment, I was done. We barely spoke much after that. He told me that he wouldn’t stop me from getting a divorce if that was what I wanted and we made a counseling appt. for the next week. During counseling, we both said we were unsure that we wanted to work on things. A week or so later, I woke up and thought what am I doing? I made a commitment to him for better or for worse…and I wanted to save our marriage. He however, did not.
More later.
Me:36 H: 29 T: 4 years M: 2 years No kids In-house sep 10/4/14 H moved out 1/2/15 Talk of D 4/9/15
"She's standing on a line between giving up and seeing how much more she can take" John Mayer
I immediately started doing all of the things that are totally opposite to DB. I started by writing a letter to him about wanting to save our marriage. I started doing the love dare (those of you who have done it know there are presents, saying I love you, pursuing). I begged, pleaded, cried, you know the drill. He eventually moved into the guest room. I felt like I was living in bizzaro world. We would talk, but not about anything important. We would eat dinner together or watch tv without saying anything. We were cautiously polite, but both avoiding each other when all possible. Sometimes he gave mixed signals, like trying to flirt with me. But then he would go back to being cold. Even before I got DR, I started GALing, just so I could get out of the house. He stopped going to our MC together (although we both went separately). Multiple times he told me he was 100% sure he wanted a divorce. Other times he said he didn’t know what he wanted. I tried my hardest to be nice, even though his attitude toward me was cold and hard. It was like a switch flipped in him. Although he had been selfish and not made me a priority for a while, he was never mean or cold. That was new.
We both are both Christians and during this time, he started getting righteous. Saying we were not spiritually matched, that our relationship had no spiritual foundation and it had been based on sex (which is pretty hard considering we were long distance for the first 8 months). Every so often I would try to talk about the R and of course it got us nowhere. If we were talking and he wanted to stop, I followed him and kept pushing. I sent him passages from the bible regarding marriage and parts of books I was reading. It was textbook. I eventually found these boards and started reading DR. I started trying to change my behavior. I went out more with friends, tried to stay away from R talk, not contact him first, stay friendly at home, make sure to thank him for things he did around the house. Everything I did was met with him saying that he thought it was all fake.
Months passed, we spent Thanksgiving apart. About a week before Christmas, he told me that he was thinking about moving out. I told him that I didn’t think it was a good idea, but that he should talk to MC about it. MC said she didn’t think it was a good idea either. We discussed it and agreed to give it some thought and discuss it again. That Sunday on the way home from Church, he told me that he was signing a lease that day. Talk about blindsided. He actually drove past the new apartment on our way home and the landlord just “happened” to be standing outside waiting for him to sign. So, he did it with me in the car…. We discussed the parameters of the move. He said it did not mean he wanted a divorce, that he only viewed it as temporary so he could have space to think and figure out what he wanted. He said he wanted to start going back to the MC together and have Sunday dinners. We agreed to split our finances while separated.
Me:36 H: 29 T: 4 years M: 2 years No kids In-house sep 10/4/14 H moved out 1/2/15 Talk of D 4/9/15
"She's standing on a line between giving up and seeing how much more she can take" John Mayer
1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!
2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!
4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.
6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.
8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.
10. Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
11. Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)
12. Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude. 13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.
15. When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while) so this takes patient on your behalf.
21. Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.
22. Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.
23. Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!
24. Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell).
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.
29. Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.
35. Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.
37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes
Thanks Cadet for the reply. I have read DR (and am in the process of re-reading it) and have read the 37 rules multiple times.
So, to bring it up to today, he has been out for a month and nothing has changed. He has texted me every day since the move (I never initiate any conversation) but that is about it. He is always very curious as to what my plans are, what I’m doing for the weekend, etc. I felt like I was doing well with DBing while he was still in the house, but since he moved out anyway, maybe I wasn’t. Since he’s been out of the house, I feel like I have been doing horrible. Not begging and pleading, but just being really angry and not being someone that only a fool would leave. I have not been very good at detaching. I unfollowed him on FB, but friends will mention something he posted or that he has been out partying all over FB and I am right back worrying and being mad.
We have been to the MC together once and it was not productive at all. He continued to blame everything on me and was not willing to take any of the responsibility. Our MC told us that it was not productive and unless we both were willing to work on the marriage she didn’t think we should come together anymore.
It seems to me (and MC) that he was not ready to get married and take on the responsibility of that and now just wants to be single and partying all the time. Which is what he has been doing since he moved out.
Me:36 H: 29 T: 4 years M: 2 years No kids In-house sep 10/4/14 H moved out 1/2/15 Talk of D 4/9/15
"She's standing on a line between giving up and seeing how much more she can take" John Mayer
The last time we went to the MC together, she gave us an exercise to do where we both thought about what it would look like from our own perspective as to what we would do to work on the marriage. Then we were supposed to meet and talk face to face about it. I sat down and really put some thought into what things he said bothered him and made a fairly detailed list of what I would do. He opened with how everything is basically my fault. How he feels our marriage is unhealthy, I am controlling, too angry. I told him that that was not part of the exercise. He said he just needed to get it off his chest (which is what he did at the MC and has done constantly over the past 4 months). Then he said that he thought I would need him to put me more of a priority and spend more quality time with me. While those are things that are issues for me, that's all he came up with. Then he said that he thought about it and he was not ready to have kids, and it could be 4 years before he was ready. Sometimes I wonder who this person is and where is my real husband.
Me:36 H: 29 T: 4 years M: 2 years No kids In-house sep 10/4/14 H moved out 1/2/15 Talk of D 4/9/15
"She's standing on a line between giving up and seeing how much more she can take" John Mayer
Well, I sorta dropped off the face of the earth here for a while. Work has been very hectic and have not had much time to read or post. Things have slowed down at work and are coming to a head in my M so I need to post and hopefully have someone talk me down form the ledge.
To catch up over the last few months, up until a few weeks ago, things have been pretty much the same. H being cold and distant and blaming me for everything. He said he forgave me but needed to see a postive change. But, I felt like nothing I did was ever right, even if I felt it was a positive (180, etc.) he would spin it into a negative.
Part of our "separation plan" was that we would meet for dinner once a week. But he started cancelling and not rescheduling. Weeks would go by before we would do dinner. He also took me off his family's weekly prayer list, commented on future events without me (plans for trips, wedding in April). I felt like we were in a downward sprial. He would say he wasn't happy being in limbo but was not making a decision either way.
He was also plastering all over socal media drinking and going out pretty much every night. He was becoming friends with various single girls and liking all their pictures. I have suspected there is something going on with a single girl in our circle of friends, but kept my mouth shut about it.
I continued to see our counselor and I told her that honestly I didn't want to see him or talk to him. She said that if any part of me wanted to save this marriage, we needed to have some contact. So, I continued to respond to his texts (he was still texting every day) but not initiating and once a week would ask if we were going to do our weekly dinner.
H was still giving mixed signals. One day he came by the house while I was at work to get some stuff and when I came home he had cleaned my kitchen...so strange. But would then be mean again. At the end of February we both were doing a race (H was doing a half marathon and I was doing a 8k). His race was first and I got there a little early and cheered for him at the finish line. We talked a little and I said congratulations and went to get ready for my race. I was very surprised to see him at my finish line over 2 hours later. All very confusing.
Me:36 H: 29 T: 4 years M: 2 years No kids In-house sep 10/4/14 H moved out 1/2/15 Talk of D 4/9/15
"She's standing on a line between giving up and seeing how much more she can take" John Mayer
At one of my counseling sessions in February, the C asked if H could come to the next session and I said sure. So at the end of the month, we went back together for the first time in a month. His demeanor was different this time. Not as cold as he had been. Still blaming me but not as forceful. Still said he didn't know what he wanted,sometimes he missed me and wanted to come home, sometimes he didn't. Said he felt like I was using our vows to trap him into staying married. Asked what if he chooses to work on it and we just go back to the same old relationship. After he left, the C said she worried that if we did decide to work on it, he would hold everything over my head forever.
During this time we were dealing with an insurance issue and we talked on the phone numerous times for the first time since October. All excuses for him to text, call, etc. But still only dealing with business matters, no real conversation. Although I still very much wanted to save my marriage, I think I started to feel differently. Questioning how long I was willing to wait for him to decide, feeling better and not so sad/angry all the time.
We finally made some plans to do dinner around 3/16. Since I felt better, I was able to act nicer, act "as if", not bring up the R. Since then we have had dinner/lunch every week. H has not cancelled and has even been the one to bring it up a couple times.
I went to the C a few weeks ago and I told her I thought I was getting to the end. It's just hard to understand how someone can't know whether or not they want to be married to you after 6 months. I know that many others on this board have been waiting for their spouses for a lot longer, but it just seems unfathomable to me. I want to move on with my life. While I would like to do it with him, why am I putting so much effort into saving a marriage that he doesn't want? Why do I want to be with someone so bad that doesn't want to be with me?
3 weeks ago, he started being very chatty over text. Asking what I was doing for the weekend, wondering who I was going out with, checking in to see how I was doing. Saying thank you for doing the taxes, taking care of paperwork, etc. I generally answer (not right away) and keep it vague. Then almost nothing for a few days. Then back again asking how my day was, wondering my plans. My birthday was the Sunday before last. I had plans with some girlfriends to go out to dinner and then out. He was very curious to where we were going, who I was with, etc. We went out and had a great time, stayed out until 2. On Sunday morning, I got a happy birthday text. We chatted a little over text, he was very curious about my night, and that was it. And at that point, I felt done.
Me:36 H: 29 T: 4 years M: 2 years No kids In-house sep 10/4/14 H moved out 1/2/15 Talk of D 4/9/15
"She's standing on a line between giving up and seeing how much more she can take" John Mayer
I've been thinking for a while that I want to move on with my life and if he still doesn't know what he wants, then we need to just move forward with the divorce. While it's not what I want I'm just not sure I can continue to wait for him while he is out doing who knows what with who knows who, knowing I am here waiting for him when he is done being single guy. I couldn't believe that he couldn't even pick up the phone on my birthday and all I got was a text. I'm sure that is more than some LBS' get but it just hit home for me. What am I trying to save?
The Monday after my birthday we met for lunch. Before we left I told him that I couldn't do this anymore and I needed to move forward with my life. He seemed surprised but said he still didn't know what he wanted. I said we should probably meet to discuss finances. He gave me a really long hug (the first in months) Of course a part of me wanted him to say that's not what he wanted, but I didn't do it as a tactic. While it's not what I want, I really feel like I need to move on. I don't want to waste anymore of my life on someone who doesn't think I am important.
He was still very chatty throughout the week. I was having second thoughts and thought maybe I'd just not bring it up again and see what happened. I took all of our pictures down in the house on Friday. I went out of town for the weekend to visit family for Easter. He came by on saturday to mow the yard and texted me and said "Thanks for taking all the pictures down. Really?" It really made me so mad. We have been "separated" for 6 months, he hasn't been wearing his wedding ring and he has been out of the house for 3 months. Why does he care about the pictures? Then he texted me that he found a shirt in the backyard. I asked what kind and he said a man's plaid long sleeve. I said I had no idea whose it was and he questioned me two more times about it. Where is this coming from all of a sudden?
Me:36 H: 29 T: 4 years M: 2 years No kids In-house sep 10/4/14 H moved out 1/2/15 Talk of D 4/9/15
"She's standing on a line between giving up and seeing how much more she can take" John Mayer
So now I feel like I have messed up big time. Total backslide and not sure what to do. Hit me with 2x4's please.
He was still very chatty over the weekend, on Sunday wished me a happy easter and said he hoped I was having a great time with my family. Yesterday he texted me and asked if I wanted to meet him for lunch. I met him and it was good. More natural than it has been in a while. When I got up to leave, he stood and gave me a hug.
When I got back to work I was scrolling through FB and was looking at the list of people you may know. I clicked on this one person I didn't recognize and noticed we had my H in common. She had recently posted a pic, and my H and the girl I had suspected him of being involved with was in it (were also a few other people). They were all sitting around drinking wine in the courtyard of his apartment. I was so upset. I couldn't keep it in, so I immediately called him and asked him to be honest with me and tell me whether or not anything was going on between them. Of course he said no, they were just friends, but I do not believe this at all. She doesn't live in his apartment complex and was not friends with any of the other people in the picture (I believe they all also live at his complex). so the only way she was there was if he invited her to come hang out there. This is someone who he just met 2 months ago. I immediately regretted calling. I don't want him to think I care or that I was looking at him on fb. I felt like I was punched in the stomach and got the wind knocked out of me. I said sorry, forget I even said anything and got off the phone. He immediately texted me and said is there anything else I can answer for you. I said nope that's about it. I again said forget about it, he said why are you acting like this. He then said he would come by this week to talk about the financials. So I guess this is it.
Me:36 H: 29 T: 4 years M: 2 years No kids In-house sep 10/4/14 H moved out 1/2/15 Talk of D 4/9/15
"She's standing on a line between giving up and seeing how much more she can take" John Mayer
