I am quite tough on sorting out fins. It is part of being assured and I think important. H is comfortably living in your old joint home. Especially if there is a mortgage and you are paying that. The only good news might be equity growth.
My H is living in the house I owned before I met him, as am I. After speaking to L I have been told that as I have assets and a business H has a good claim even though we have only been M for one year plus. So I agreed a fixed settlement figure with him, to be paid when the house is sold. It suits me to move and to agree the sum. it is generous. H was horrid to start with but it settled down. Now that I have an agreement I know that I can let H S or D taking the attitude H if you want to then ok but I will not help you on this path.
It has actually eased the emotional stress for me. H does not pay his share of the bills which is unfair and causing me to have to work very long hours. My fins are very stressed until I can sell the house. But at least I know the bottom line.
If you are holding on to your H ( or trying to) by dismissing your rights to an early fins settlement, then you are doing yourself a disfavour. Making H face the full consequences of his actions may not happen if he is comfortable financially.
Take extra L advice dear brave Toots so you know what your position is. Chose a specialist, have your docs organised and some basic asset and income schedules. You can do this sensible step.
We are here to talk you through it.
V
Last edited by Vanilla; 01/29/1510:32 PM.
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
In my cirumstance there were only two things that i decided to be firm on and stand my ground 1) that i would have equal custody of the kids 2) the financials would be sorted and it would be a clean break
I tackled this out fairly early and but getting a final agreement was pushed all the way until a week before my W moved. And its fair to say that she is really angry about it and feels i have stolen her money. Theres a lot more too it than that but doesnt matter here.
anyway we quickly came to an agreement that I would buy her equity in the house off of her (for a figure which was both the maximum i could raise and roughly 50% of the equity) and that everything else would be a clean break with debts laying where they lay. Now in truth this is a lot worse for me than it really should have been given she is leaving me and committing adultery but in the scheme of things pretty reasonable.
Now you might not want to go down that but I think its worth your time to work through what all the assets/liabilities that are between you and see what outcomes you think works best (lump sum vs spousal maintenance etc.)
as a starting point and sorry if you know this but you need to consider (vanilla can add)
Properties Investments and annuities Cars Pensions Income Credit Cards and other debts
Roughly speaking add all this up and divide by two and thats what you should end up with in lump sum terms. Even if you do nothing with the information is useful for your own information and to an extent peace of mind if things do start getting difficult.
Both mid 30s, 2 young kids BD 7sep14 XW moved on long ago, now living with OM1 D paperwork in progress
An M of 5 years would be considered 'short' in the UK. This would mean that you would identify the assets you both took in to the M (poss beginning of R) and the assets acquired in the period. As there are no children between you as I understand it then the courts will look to 'clean' break with a single settlement.
In essence a mathematical style calc, most accountants can do it. I got 5 valuations on the houses, ignored highest and lowest and averaged the remaining three. Then pensions growth for me and H. Calc was difficult because H had gambled his assets so had to put a value on that as if he had kept them. Then I worked a value and added 25% to make it acceptable. H spewed but agreed as he knew it was generous. L said generous. Drafted it up we signed and that was it. House is on the market and I will chase as soon as January is done.
That is how I do this when preparing divorce schedules for clients. Valuing business is the hard part and in long marriages making discounted cash flow calcs for lost earnings for the stay at home spouse. In addition looking at the tax effects of pensions and asset sharing. Moving assets between H and W are capital gains tax free in the UK but that is not necessarily the case when spouses separate under such circumstances as are likely to become permanent.
So for wealthy clients it makes sense to do the S fins and S at the start of a tax year. V will organise her S on the 6 April giving her a whole year to separate fins and assets. 6 April being start of tax year in UK. (Joking of course!). House is always CGT free if it is main res of either spouse, normally for 3 years after WAS leaves.
Hope that helps Toots. A good L can help.
V
Last edited by Vanilla; 01/30/1502:16 AM.
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Thanks very much for your replies. I'm going to ring the L today and make an appointment. I've decided on three principles:
I don't want to file for D I want to stabilise my finances for a good while (next few years) I don't want to prejudice a future full financial settlement
I came into our R with substantial equity from the sale of my previous home. This was used as a 50% down payment for our main home, which we jointly own outright - no mortgage. My L has advised that this sum of money should be confirmed as a non-marital asset, as it was built purely out of my efforts prior to our R.
Ideally, I would like this to be acknowledged and that sum released for my use, without prejudicing any future settlement of our marital assets. It would enable me to buy a flat here, and not have to rent in the longer term.
This is what I would like to talk to the L about before I approach H. She may advise me to fully settle all £ matters now.....but we'll see what she says. And I want to understand the risks of not doing that. I'll keep you posted &Thanks again. T xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
I was the other side of this equation in having to release the equity. I wanted and my solicitor was very clear in her advice that I shouldnt make any substantial payment unless it was part of a complete settlement. I wanted this as I can only afford the loan in the knowledge that no further financial claims will be made.
your H's position might be different so he may be amenable to an agreement that releases some of your final settlement now but unless this is only a small part of the likely overall settlement there is a good chance his lawyer will recommend it is either some kind of trade off or that all the finances are agreed.
My wife despised me doing this as she wanted it solely about the house and she got pretty irrational about some of it as she felt vulnerable. I'm saying this as finances seem to be something that can provoke quite a lot (dont not protect yourself though)
the other thing to keep in mind is that under UK law the agreements are good for showing intent but they can be overridden by court order as part of the decree absolute.
Speaking to your lawyer is a really good idea because then you'll know where you stand and they know what you want to acheive. And by the way i would tell your lawyer your three principles.
hope it goes well
Both mid 30s, 2 young kids BD 7sep14 XW moved on long ago, now living with OM1 D paperwork in progress
Thanks Jim. I have rung the solicitor and I'm waiting for a call back. I'll try and get an appt next week. I feel happy within myself about not filing for D and taking steps to restore financial stability. But I worry that - when we bring H into the mix - these two principles won't be compatible.
Ideally I would like confirmation that the £175k I bought into the R is a non-marital asset and for that to be released to me for my use ahead of any future settlement. I would also like some kind of limit to be imposed on his moving funds around on the basis that I may have an interest in these. These aims might be wildly optimistic - IDK.
I can't see any benefits to him of resolving our finances right now, or releasing some funds to me in a partial settlement. I would be better off and he worse off than now. Why would he do this without the lever of D? Unless he wants to be helpful - which is pretty unlikely, if we think about the mindset of WAS's in general - although my H is generally a decent person.
I know that he believes half the marital home will be the sum of my settlement, so he'll get a shock if I seek that as a starting point. I know he's also worried about job security and the downturn in his industry. So, he's probably pretty sensitive about money. I know he also thinks I should just go out, get a 'proper' job and support myself independently of him now - so I doubt he's going to be amenable, and I could just end up investing in legal fees without any success.
But, I think for me the financial side is now quite pressing. When I was up at the house last week, there were a couple of bits of post lying around to do with the dissolution of a couple of his companies. So, I'm conscious that he is probably doing things with funds that I have no idea about - and that these funds could be classed as marital assets - IDK.
Still, not much I can do for now ahead of hearing from the L. At least I now have my principles as a starting point and we'll take it from there...
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
So, the L just called me back & asked me to set out what I hope to do in an email. Here is what I have sent.
Thanks for the recent meeting. I have had a think about what I would like to do, and there are some principles I want to work with:
1. I don't want to file for divorce at this point 2. I do need to resolve my financial instability 3. I want to do this in a minimal, simple, constructive way if possible 4. I don't want to jeopardise a full financial settlement in the event we divorce 5. I want to protect my interest in 'marital assets' going forwards
What I have in mind for now is the release of a 'pot' of money that I brought into the relationship (equity from the sale of my previous home.) Ideally, I would like this sum confirmed as a non-marital asset and released to me now for my use. It was used as a down payment for our marital home.
I would also like for restrictions to be agreed on the movement/disposal of funds that may be marital assets, and in which I may have an interest.
If we could meet to discuss the viability of this (or a similar) plan, I would be grateful. I haven't discussed this with my husband yet, and have no idea how amenable he may be. Before I raise it with him, I want to be sure that it is a reasonable way for me to proceed.
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Hi SRD. I moved to that area to join H. At BD, I went to stay with my parents for a bit - feeling devastated/traumatised etc. As things played out, I realised I couldn't bear to return to that area or our marital home.
So, I stayed with my parents for a few months and then decided to rent a flat here - 2 hours away. It may not have been the best decision financially....but I made it in crisis mode, and now I have to work with it. A good thing about the decision is that SS has been able to remain in our marital home.
My sitch is different to many/most as H and I have no choldren together.
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Even though our house is jointly owned it doesnt feel like mine anymore. And certainly not the bedroom as im on the couch. I know what you mean about not bearing to be there. hopefully ill be gone soon. It will be hard on our daughter but i have to remember this is not what i chose. This is my wifes decision. My decision to move is so to cause as least upset as possible to our daughter. I recently restored a relationship with my dad 30 years after he and my mum divorced very badly. I didnt see him for a very long time. I now feel closer to him than my mum. The truth has a funny way of coming out eventually and what i was told for many years by my mum and her family is only one side. Growing up i never realised this.
Me:40 W:35 D:8 T:13 M:10 WAW: 7/14 PA Discovered: 1/15 at least 6 months Moved out and moved on
