Introduction - least creative title

[MrBond]

"I have been thinking about if I really want this marriage to work. Right now it's a hard question for me to answer. I dread the thought of not seeing my kids every single day of my life. I can't imagine living without my family. However, we really do not have much in common. "

BS, your M failed because you failed to sustain it. You were together for 14 years. People don't "grow" apart. When the two of you first dated, regardless of how little you had in common, you always found a way to include her in your life. Over time you just got lazy and stopped doing that.

Saying that you don't have that much "in common" is a cop out. It's what all WAS's tell themselves.

[Closer2]

Mr. Bond, you're right. I got lazy. I didn't focus on the marriage enough. I stopped dating her after we got married. I made that mistake years ago and did nothing. I am responsible for letting this marriage die and I feel like hell.

Reading DB and DR was very eye opening regarding the effort that needs to be put into sustaining a marriage.

[Closer2]

I wish I could edit this thread title.

I had a telephone coaching session with Chuck on V-Day. He gave me some great guidance on the 180 and GAL.

Due to my past detachment from the M, I am working on becoming the person she knew when first started dating (this is a 180). Communication has been a problem in the past, for both of us. I was a terrible listener, always trying to resolve her problems and being the typical "fixer". I have become a great listener in the past few weeks. I now listen and validate when appropriate.

She has been testing me lately. For example, I listened to her detail the falling out her mother had with her new husband. I did not attempt to give advice or any recommendations for her to relay to her mother. I only validated the concerns my W had for her mother. Telling her it must be difficult for her to see her mother hurting during this difficult time.

Her immediate comment was "I can tell you have changed and I'm happy for you. These changes are going to help you in your next relationship and after the our divorce".

Instead of responding to her how she expects the "old me" to respond (pleading, chasing, etc). I followed Chuck's advice and told her I appreciated her noticing.

I have also been showing more remorse and taking responsibility for causing our marriage to fail. I am careful to only do this if she is testing me and I do not spend anymore time on it than a simple "you know, I really blew this, I'm sorry".

Speaking with Chuck before any V-Day activities was perfect. She wanted to hangout at the house and for us to watch a movie together since we did not have the kids. It was great opportunity for me to practice what I have learned here, from Chuck and from DR and DB. We ended up having the best V-Day we have ever had (she made that comment and I agreed).

Last night was a bit of a backslide. She asked me how long it would be until my lawyer reviewed the Divorce Decree and if I knew when I would sign it. She also said that she is worried I will have a harder time dealing with her moving out next month since we have become closer over the last weeks. I did my best to validate her concerns and to not react like the old me. When she asked me how I would react if she goes visits the OM that she is still in an EA with, I backslid.

I tried my best to validate her wanting to see him due to my past detachment and lack of focus on our M. I tried to set boundaries, well really just one boundary... that I do not want her to see him while we are in the same house. That upset her. She felt that since we are going to be divorced soon and she does not love like a wife should and has never really loved me like a wife should, I can not stop her from seeing him.

My response was horrible, I tried to stop myself. I felt like I could see the words leaving my mouth, but I couldn't stop them. I told her it sucked to hear say that. That I still loved her and was in love with her and that didn't want to close any doors. She assured me that she is okay with closing doors and that her feelings towards me will never change.

I told her I was sorry to hear her say her that and that my love and feelings for her will never change either.

I woke up this morning refocused. I did not bring up the discussion from last night. After a meeting at our son's school. I took her back to our house and told her to have a great day. Then headed to the office. She call me and asked me to come home early since my parents are watching kids for a few hours after school. I told her since I was going in late, I would probably need to work a little later.

I am committed to DB. I know I made monumental mistakes throughout this M. My focus now is to repair as much of the damage as possible. I love her. I want to save our marriage.

[Mozza]

You did very well for a while there. I agree that last night wasn't so good. Some things you already know:

- Believe none of what they say. She's never loved you? Yeah, yeah...
- Make her doubt. Don't ever assure her of your undying love! It's the safety net for the A.
- Your message is that you know you'll be happy and are ready to move on.

Find Startsky309 around, he has great replies for establishing boundaries. He's big on respect, for instance. Also, have a look at the thread on boundaries.

It's quite amazing how much your WAW follows the script, after reading around these boards for months.

This will likely take a long time. Your behavior fits perfectly in her mental image that you're manipulating her for your own good. Honestly, she's not far from the truth this early in your sitch because, and that's just my opinion, but I doubt the changes would be permanent after such a short period. You tell her your changes are for you, but one day you'll have to believe it and not even think of her when you think of who you've become. Save yourself and you just might save your M.

[sandi2]

Are you and W still having sex?

[Closer2]

We did until about a week ago. She came down with a bad sinus infection and that derailed any physical activity. She also told me last night that she does not want to have sex anymore. She said she enjoys it, but the sex is confusing her. She also said she is worried it is confusing me. I think she is 100% correct. It is confusing the hell out of me.

Sandi2, I spent a lot of time this weekend reading these boards. Specifically focusing on some of your posts regarding sex and sleeping in the same bed as the ex. Those posts made me realize that it is doing nothing to help our R. She doesn't have any respect for me and being physical with her will not build any respect. She is in an EA/PA with another person, she has checked out of this M.

My focus now is to be the best father I can be to my children, to work on what I have learned from DB and DR (and DB forums), and listen and practice the advice from my DB coaching. GAL has finally sunk into my thick head.

[Closer2]

We had a pretty good night last night. We discussed getting the house ready to sell. She told me she wants to spend the weekends with her mom so I can spend more time with the kids. I told her that I could see that me spending more time with the kids was important to her. The old me would have said I spend a lot of time with the kids now. She just wants to go to her mom's house so she can call and IM the OM. I would have also argued that going to her mom's house every weekend is not going to help me get this house ready to sell. Guess I'll be getting help from the kiddos on that project.

She told me wants to stay in the house during the week only because she wants to be with the kids. I tried to use that as an opportunity to set some boundaries. I said she could stay if she could agree to not text, IM, or call OM while I was in the house (set that one a while ago and she has been good about it). I also asked her to avoid arguing or discussing our divorce around the kids until we are ready to put the house on the market and ease up on spending money like one of the real housewives.

If she doesn't respect the boundaries I will ask her to leave the house and will cut her off financially.

She did apologized for telling me this entire situation was my fault and I drove her to have an affair. That she felt horrible for starting this EA (not horrible enough to stop it) and for not talking to me instead of OM. She started to cry a bit and I felt that she was being honest with me. I tried to validate and said I could see how stressful this was for her and that I appreciated her telling me that. I hate seeing her so upset and crying.

After a bit more conversation, she wanted to watch the Bachelor (yay, more crazy ideas about fantasy love)and I went to my office to do some work. 15 minutes later she asked me to come and rub her back. The next thing I know, I was in the bed rubbing her back. I think I teleported back in there. DOH!

No sex though. I'm not going to lie and say I didn't try. She shot me down rather nicely. I know shouldn't have even been in there rubbing her back. I should have told her I need to get some work done. Cripes that is major weakness she knows how to exploit. I'm working on it.

[TenBook]

Closer2, pick up the book , 5 languages of love. It's really easy to read.

Before you call your W out on the boundaries, discuss that with your coach, he may have some advice.

[Sherman333]

Mozza,

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate your response.

I have no doubt I need to find an IC. I don't feel that self esteem is a big issue for me. However, you make a good point. This situation has hurt my self esteem. Possibly more that I realized.

I think that my biggest mistake in this marriage was not communicating. I did not talk to her about anything other than basic chit chat. I don't think we ever talked about our plans for the future. We never discussed family trips, what will the kids be when they grow up, or what our future may hold. I've been trying to pin point when that break down occurred and I think it was just before our first child was born. I remember feeling that any conversation would lead to an argument. So I kept all conversations to a minimum. Since that seemed to be a good way to avoid arguments, I held steady until I got the divorce papers 8 years later.

By not communicating with her, removing myself from the marriage, I never had a true understanding of what she needed and wanted in a marriage so she could be happy. Over the past month we have been talking more than we had the past few years. I can't begin to tell you how awful I feel for my past actions. The pain I feel for not making her feel like a wife should feel, for not making her feel loved, wanted and happy hurts me greatly.

I have been working hard this past month to be more open with her and we have talked several times about issues that have brought her to this point.

She has noticed the changes I have made. I have been spending more time with the kids, focusing on projects around the house, and talking to her. She worries that they're only short term changes, which I completely understand. To me, I am really enjoying being a better father and husband.

I have been thinking about if I really want this marriage to work. Right now it's a hard question for me to answer. I dread the thought of not seeing my kids every single day of my life. I can't imagine living without my family. However, we really do not have much in common. She feels we made a mistake getting married and I am starting to think she may be correct.

I finally made it to one of the few book stores left in the world and picked up DB and DR. Reading them now.

Wow... reading this really resonated with me. I think our situations are very similar. My wife in the last several years was always arguing with me about something. So I withdrew and did a lot of my own things. She wasn't interested in participating in anything with me either. Very insightful.

[Closer2]

Thanks for support Sherman. I appreciate it. I'm happy that I have broken that unhealthy pattern of pushing my feelings down and withdrawing. It [censored] that it took an atom bomb of an EA/PA and divorce to turn me around.

It's been a difficult few days and rereading my post has just reminded me of how long and difficult this process is going to be.

Our lawyers have finished the finial decree, so the divorce should be final soon. My wife has started to stay at her mother's every other weekend with the kids. She wants to start the visitation schedule we agreed on. Coming home to an empty house after a long day at work is terrible. I miss walking through to door and hearing the kid's screaming "daddy", mauling me, and making me put hand higher and higher so they can high five me.

My wife has been great. She brings up the changes she sees in me fairly often. Usually, it's little test like, "I love these changes in you, they're going to help you after we are living apart" etc. etc. I thank her for noticing and agree with her, then move to something else.

The downside to not pushing all my emotions down and keeping everything bottled up is that my wife wants me to talk to her about how I'm feeling. She even said "I find you much more attractive now that I can see you have emotions and feelings". She very good at getting me to trust her. Since it's a 180 from the old me to talk about emotions and feelings, I do. I do not talk about R or the D.

She's good at getting me to trust her. I think that can be somewhat dangerous right now. She can give me a false sense of hope.

She's still chatting with the OM. She has been respectful of my boundaries and does not talk, text, chat, facebook, etc. with him while I'm at home. I don't snoop, so I don't know what is going on with her and him. That's hard for me to deal with.

I'm doing my best to stay focused on being an awesome dad, improving myself, and letting her go. Why is letting her go so freaking hard? 3 months ago I was almost out the door.