I'm just utterly gutted right now :(

[Frank75]

Frank- You need to talk to your own lawyer.

Start making calls now, don't wait. Don't rely on what your wife's attorney has supposedly said.

I thought about it but in the grand scheme of things it won't matter. Like i said i'd never take the house her mom gave her or force it to be split up. She offered to give me half of what we put into it since moving, i think that's fair. The last thing i want right now is for anything to turn ugly. I'd be moving out regardless anyway, i couldn't stay here and be treated like an invisible man just to prove a point.

And i forgot to mention that last night she was originally very cold to me. But she said she had to do that because nothing else ever worked. After i vented and cried a lot she seemed to open up and feel genuinely bad and even hugged me and offered to make me dinner. I realize it means nothing but to me it was something i needed....just seeing that she still had a heart.

[susana4]

Frank- You need to talk to your own lawyer.

Start making calls now, don't wait. Don't rely on what your wife's attorney has supposedly said.

I thought about it but in the grand scheme of things it won't matter. Like i said i'd never take the house her mom gave her or force it to be split up. She offered to give me half of what we put into it since moving, i think that's fair. The last thing i want right now is for anything to turn ugly. I'd be moving out regardless anyway, i couldn't stay here and be treated like an invisible man just to prove a point.

And i forgot to mention that last night she was originally very cold to me. But she said she had to do that because nothing else ever worked. After i vented and cried a lot she seemed to open up and feel genuinely bad and even hugged me and offered to make me dinner. I realize it means nothing but to me it was something i needed....just seeing that she still had a heart.

Frank, I think the point is still a good one, if she's spoken to a lawyer then it's probably time for you to speak to one as well, just so you know where you stand.

It sounds like a hard situation with the house, you don't know that you'd be treated like an invisible man though, everyone's situation is different. Ultimately you need to decide what's best for you, but maybe you should take some more time to think about it - it sounds like you agreed straightaway to move out, but sleep on it a few days.

I'll just echo what everyone else said that happiness is not over, and it's not the end. Do read the book when you get it, hope it gives you some more hope about your happiness and future.

[susana4]

The reason for the coldness, is two-fold, IMHO. First, the WAS has had it with the M. They are completely done! They are no longer interested is having you for their love interest, and they (WAS) have had an inner transformation. That is why I often tell the LBS that this is not the person you married! Second, the WAS wants the LBS to get the message quickly. They do not want to give any impression there is any hope left, or that they will change their mind, or that anything the LBS tries will work. They act cold b/c they feel cold towards the LBS. Some are worse than others.

In many cases, if the WAS believes the LBS is going to cooperate with whatever the WAS may want at the time (S, D, have an A, etc.) then they may suddenly change to being friendlier. This causes great confusion in the LBS. However, it does not mean the WAS has had a change of heart. They just want you to give them whatever they want and not give them a hard time about it. If the two of you can part and keep it friendly, they think it's great.

sandi, thanks so much for sharing your perspective as a WAS. The WAS is not who we married -- wow, that is so true! I don't want to hijack this thread but was wondering what you make of a WAS who's warm/friendly all along? H has been very nice to me throughout the whole time since the BD (and yes it is very confusing as the LBS!), even when I was being very pushy and begging him not to leave and definitely not going to go along with it. Is it just his way of trying to get me to cooperate?

[sandi2]

And i forgot to mention that last night she was originally very cold to me. But she said she had to do that because nothing else ever worked. After i vented and cried a lot she seemed to open up and feel genuinely bad and even hugged me and offered to make me dinner. I realize it means nothing but to me it was something i needed....just seeing that she still had a heart.

Frank, you may think she is not typical, but her behavior is so common in WAW who drops the bomb and the H is having a meltdown. "Everything will be fine, you'll see. (give a hug or kiss, like she is mothering him) Look, we are still going to be the best of friends, ok? Come on, I'll fix you something to eat, and you'll start feeling better."

sandi, thanks so much for sharing your perspective as a WAS. The WAS is not who we married -- wow, that is so true! I don't want to hijack this thread but was wondering what you make of a WAS who's warm/friendly all along? H has been very nice to me throughout the whole time since the BD (and yes it is very confusing as the LBS!), even when I was being very pushy and begging him not to leave and definitely not going to go along with it. Is it just his way of trying to get me to cooperate?

I believe it is. Plus, the WAH wants to keep things running smoothly without heavy scenes from his W. I think both the WAW & WAH want as little resistance from the LBS as possible. The WAS is ready to move on, while the LBS is still reeling with the hit of the BD. Not all WAS's are nice/friendly. Usually if they do not get what they want (especially women), they lose their niceness. I think men tend to work at keeping the LBW calm as he possibly can, which means being warm/friendly/nice. IMO, the WAW turns into a real b'tch and the H can see a greater degree of change in her than maybe the WAH shows his W. That is mostly based on what I have observed over many years of reading threads. I'm sure it can go either way, depending on the person.

[susana4]

I believe it is. Plus, the WAH wants to keep things running smoothly without heavy scenes from his W. I think both the WAW & WAH want as little resistance from the LBS as possible. The WAS is ready to move on, while the LBS is still reeling with the hit of the BD. Not all WAS's are nice/friendly. Usually if they do not get what they want (especially women), they lose their niceness. I think men tend to work at keeping the LBW calm as he possibly can, which means being warm/friendly/nice. IMO, the WAW turns into a real b'tch and the H can see a greater degree of change in her than maybe the WAH shows his W. That is mostly based on what I have observed over many years of reading threads. I'm sure it can go either way, depending on the person.

Interesting on the differences in general between WAW & WAH. I don't feel I've seen much of a change in H, in many ways he acts like everything is the same except we don't sleep in the same bed or ML anymore. Maybe that is typical WAH behaviour then. He definitely did a bit of 'mothering' behaviour like Frank's WAW (maybe this is also typical WAS behaviour?). I also did a lot of crying and talking when he first dropped the bomb, and spent many days erupting in tears constantly (prior to finding DR) and he spent the whole time 'mothering' me and making me meals and stuff. Do you think guilt plays into it too as well as wanting cooperation?

[sandi2]

I can't speak as much for the WAH, of course, but I would say it probably depends on that individual person. I know I have read a lot of posts from H's who wonders if his WAW does things out of guilt, but from my own VP, I can see in his thread that he is just hoping she feels guilty. In reality, she usually doesn't, b/c she has gone through a transformation. I believe for the most part, the WAS's feelings of guilt do not come till much later. That doesn't mean the WAS wants to see their S suffer, it just means they don't feel guilty about their own decisions.

Let me add this, also. Whenever there is a hidden, open EA/PA involved, I believe it causes the WAS to be much worse in ways one without an A would be. They have a different agenda, are deceitful, illogical, untrustworthy in every thing, the epitome of selfishness, callous........on & on. I'm not saying some of this never shows up in a WAS not in an A, but there is waywardness in the S who is either in an A or wants to prowl and party. They are worse than teenagers in rebellion. It is that waywardness that takes over their life and nobody (LBS, family, former friends, etc.) can seem to influence them as long as they are in their wayward state.

The wayward spouse has changed so drastically that the LBS thinks they must surely be having a MLC. Sometimes that is correct, but many times it is not. However, it is a crises for them.....and the S that loves them.

[Frank75]

Frank, you may think she is not typical, but her behavior is so common in WAW who drops the bomb and the H is having a meltdown. "Everything will be fine, you'll see. (give a hug or kiss, like she is mothering him) Look, we are still going to be the best of friends, ok? Come on, I'll fix you something to eat, and you'll start feeling better."

I'm still waiting for my books. I'm just in a very negative space right now. I realize she's trying to smooth my transition over into being single, that's what makes it even harder. She walled off her heart and I totally forgot this person existed. It hurts so bad seeing it again.

But on the other hand she sees me in total despair and she asks me if i want to go looking at apartments tomorrow. This plan has been a long time coming and it took her tremendous amounts of energy to finally do it, so now it's a big sigh of relief to her that this is out there and she just doesn't want to deal with it (or me) anymore. It's such a horrible feeling.

I read an article the other day, I forget where, that said something like "men don't really hear talking, action is their language and that's why when the unhappy wife finally comes out and wants a divorce, men finally realize the scope of the issues". That's me in a nutshell

[sandi2]

read an article the other day, I forget where, that said something like "men don't really hear talking, action is their language and that's why when the unhappy wife finally comes out and wants a divorce, men finally realize the scope of the issues".

So true! And now you have to apply that to her. She will not hear talking, only action.

[Frank75]

read an article the other day, I forget where, that said something like "men don't really hear talking, action is their language and that's why when the unhappy wife finally comes out and wants a divorce, men finally realize the scope of the issues".

So true! And now you have to apply that to her. She will not hear talking, only action.

I really want to, really want the chance to prove to her. My only problem is the time that's gone by, i don't believe in anything like "it's never too late" but she does. I'm hoping there's a sliver of a chance for her to actually see that action and not just close me off completely.

[Frank75]

I really think i need to go to the doctor. As adverse as I am to pharmaceuticals, i'm on day 7 of just being completely panic-stricken/anxiety-ridden. I've never taken any depression or anxiety pills and i hate the thought of not being able to do this on my own, but i don't know how much more i can take. I can't get my brain to turn off, it's just a constant stream of panic-inducing thoughts and it's horrible.

edit: it's been exactly a week since my "dear frank" email, down to the minute.