Surving the rollercoster

[Mom22]

Its sad the children always suffer when a parent thinks only of their needs. Again im proud of you, withoutyou she d be alone. As he is mentally unavailable too, i mean who leaves a 13yo at home at night for a date???

[Karma12]

Thanks Mom22 for your encouraging words.

He is actually a very intelligent man. Unfortunately he's not using his head. I think he intended to come home and probably fell asleep. He then thought he'd be able to sneak back in without SD realizing he'd been out all night. Her room is over the garage so when he opened the garage door she heard it. Still he shouldn't be going out late on school nights period. Now that her Grandma and I are aware we will be keeping closer tabs on what's going on.

I know he does love her and sadly I think it is going to take something happening to wake him up. She's 13 and in high school. This is the age she needs to be supervised the most.

He obviously knew he did wrong and was feeling guilty. He normally would not have agreed to her coming to me like she did the other night.

This MLC thing creates a monster. It's like all people have their good side and bad side but are usually able to balance between the two. With MLC the good disappears and they are their worst selves all the time.

[Mom22]

Im sorry you got your hopes up. It s hard!
I ve got some idea what its like. :-) @ss brought AP2 in to our hpuse when we were gone to give him 'some rest' and she stole one of my rings. But 'no she would never do that'...... He's just not 'in there' anymore. Its just the MLC.

Should you maybe consider moving on for real? It doesnt mean he can never come back but it would mean a beginning for you. Not just living your life waiting for him. Its been really long now and you deserve peace & some fun.
I hope I'll be able to move on/close the door on my H this year. If he then wants me back (which i doubt) he will have some serious work in proving that. As I do not want to be sn example that teaches my daughters its ok to be frequently cheated on.

[Karma12]

Hi Mom22

I haven't been waiting all this time. I've been keeping busy doing things I like to do. I've been on a couple dates but haven't met anyone special yet. I did get hopeful when I saw glimmers of my old H. There is still live there. I do know I have to just keep moving forward in my own life.

I don't get how the a$$ thinks bringing his AP into your home is ok. You would think it would create too much guilt but it doesn't! So disgusting. The fact that he defended her taking something of yours is disgusting too.

I found out about my H having his AP from Eastern Europe move into our house from my SD. My SD came home from a vacation in Mexico to find her DAds new "friend" living in the house. He thought she bought the friend story and he had even set up the spare room for his "friend". SD was 11 and not so easily fooled. She realized her Dad must have cheated on me. ( what an awful discovery) she didn't want to tell me so she showed me.

SD was coming to my place for dinner. Her Dad dropped her off but didn't come up. This was odd as he usually did. SD was acting kinda different so I asked her if she was ok. She said is it ok if we go back to my house before we go out for dinner and pick up my asthma med. I forgot it. I said oh ok. We drove back to the house. When we got there she said can you come in with me? I thought this too was odd as she normally would just run in and back out. She opened the door and we stepped in. I felt like something was really off. I noticed a frame on the wall that had had our pics in it now had pics of a strange woman. I heard someone shuffling. The woman was trying to hide in the butlers pantry off the kitchen not realizing it was glass and I could see her! I was in total shock. I grabbed SD and we got back in the car. My son ( thankfully was with us driving) I was bawling my eyes out. SD had thrown her Dad under the bus. She was angry and knew I should know. She didn't realize how hurt I would be. I had no idea what I was walking into. Her Grandma told me later they had talked about how to tell me.

H. Called my phone constantly after I left until I picked up. I went into the bathroom at a restaurant and blasted him. I don't anger easily but I sure did then. He had the oddasity to tell me he didn't want me making SD feel guilty and I was upsetting SD. I told him you friggin fool your own D just threw you under the bus. Do you think she's stupid? One day Mark my words when she's a teen she's going to throw all this back in your face. That night was worst than BD.

Now he says it was a huge mistake moving AP in. Now he understands why I was so upset. Because ya know he does have feelings for me and thinks I'm great. He just wants to see what's out there and date others with no expectations. Ugh! The craziness of the MLC.

I really am in a much better place now. I am pretty happy most days. My home is my solace. I find peace there. One day when the time is right the right one will step into my life.

Time does heal all wounds. One day you too will meet someone that treats you the way you deserve to be treated. We are role models for our daughters. We are teaching them what is acceptable and what is not. Big hugs to you.

[25yearsmlc]

Oh dang it, Karma...

((( ouch! )))

Hi Mom22

I haven't been waiting all this time. I've been keeping busy doing things I like to do. I've been on a couple dates but haven't met anyone special yet.


Date some more, and this time do it with the concept of your X h,

being your EX, as in Former h.

Please do something for me, okay? I just want you to imagine this for 5 MINUTES
ok?

SO, imagine that your x h passed away a few years ago, and your grief has mostly passed.


Imagine that the grief really has been processed...he's gone and you have accepted it...

and imagine now, that even though he's gone, you are happy--


What does that picture look like? Flesh it out in a lot of detail.

What are you doing? Where do you live?

Taking a class? Learning a new language? Still working at the same hospital? Different floor or ward? Dating anyone new? What about someone from work?

Imagine that You are now ready to date "for real", with an open mind and heart, and a great sense of humor.

Where have you travelled lately? Did you take your SD or your other kids?
Imagine a fulfilling life,

without him.. and with you happy...

and now, what of those ^^ things can you do...this month?

I did get hopeful when I saw glimmers of my old H. There is still live there. I do know I have to just keep moving forward in my own life.

I don't get how the a$$ thinks bringing his AP into your home is ok. You would think it would create too much guilt but it doesn't! So disgusting. The fact that he defended her taking something of yours is disgusting too.

What I'm reading here ^^ is that of the many mistakes he's made, only a few have registered in these 3+ years.

You said He's intelligent, and I believe you. So his resistance and whatever conflicts with whats right, is deep & has been winning the internal war.

Not a good sign at all....sorry


I found out about my H having his AP from Eastern Europe move into our house from my SD. My SD came home from a vacation in Mexico to find her DAds new "friend" living in the house.

This is his PAST (reprehensible) behavior, from which he's learned very little. I guess my question is, what's your question? I'm not being snarky.

Earlier, I asked you if you could handle this "Friends with benefits" relationship -

AND Or the "Loving Aunt to a needy/wonderful Stepdaughter" role.

From what I see, those ^^ are still your only options.

He thought she bought the friend story and he had even set up the spare room for his "friend". SD was 11 and not so easily fooled. She realized her Dad must have cheated on me. ( what an awful discovery) she didn't want to tell me so she showed me.

SD was coming to my place for dinner. Her Dad dropped her off but didn't come up. This was odd as he usually did. SD was acting kinda different so I asked her if she was ok. She said is it ok if we go back to my house before we go out for dinner and pick up my asthma med. I forgot it. I said oh ok. We drove back to the house. When we got there she said can you come in with me? I thought this too was odd as she normally would just run in and back out. She opened the door and we stepped in. I felt like something was really off. I noticed a frame on the wall that had had our pics in it now had pics of a strange woman. I heard someone shuffling. The woman was trying to hide in the butlers pantry off the kitchen not realizing it was glass and I could see her! I was in total shock. I grabbed SD and we got back in the car. My son ( thankfully was with us driving) I was bawling my eyes out. SD had thrown her Dad under the bus. She was angry and knew I should know. She didn't realize how hurt I would be. I had no idea what I was walking into. Her Grandma told me later they had talked about how to tell me.


OMG She's so brave and loving!! And how disappointing for her. Karma, she's already endured too much for such a youngster.

You are her ONLY Model for what is acceptable from a man (oh, and her biological mother, whom he never married...)

Are you certain this $#&@ is what you want to teach her is, in effect, acceptable? B/C your openness and not moving on (for real I mean) is

in effect, an acceptance, is it not? Am I missing something?



H. Called my phone constantly after I left until I picked up. I went into the bathroom at a restaurant and blasted him. I don't anger easily but I sure did then. He had the oddasity to tell me he didn't want me making SD feel guilty and I was upsetting SD. I told him you friggin fool your own D just threw you under the bus. Do you think she's stupid? One day Mark my words when she's a teen she's going to throw all this back in your face. That night was worst than BD.

Now he says it was a huge mistake moving AP in. Now he understands why I was so upset. Because ya know he does have feelings for me and thinks I'm great. He just wants to see what's out there and date others with no expectations. Ugh! The craziness of the MLC.

Hey let me make one point here^^ about this "MLC" stuff. There are vigorous debates about it, using it as an excuse or b/c an LBSer wants to hang on to crumbs, etc.

I tend to dismiss some of the labels b/c SOME LBSers hang onto the MLC term thinking that it somehow makes the WAS more likely to return.

I'm not sure 1) there is ANY data supporting that^^ hope/belief; and

2) just b/c someone regrets a mistake 7 or 12 years later, does it mean they were in a MLC? And so what if it does?

What if they were just jerks and took a really really long time to figure it out?

And

3) Nothing says that the MLCer who does "wake up", means he/she learned the lessons they need to learn;

AND OR

4) theres on proof that they improve as partners later on...(none that I know of.)

So My question would be, how do you know it's some type of MLC versus,

the culmination of a long pattern for him?

WHAT IF??

What if Once the utility of your presence (i.e. getting custody of his d) was achieved, you became far less appealing and interesting to him.

As in, "Mission accomplished, what's next?" That's almost like an ADD kid/man who wants the new shiny thing every few years.

Never commits unless he has to (like he would need to, in order to get custody)

I don't mean to suggest he consciously used you for custody, and then dropped you for OW. But at some level it sure looks that way.

You happen to be a great catch, but he's not.

And he never has been...I mean, you guys were in "happy family land" for what, a year? 2years? Out of a decade+...

I am concerned you're holding onto something that isn't what you thought it was b/c you were in love and happy.

Whatever it was, b/c of SD perhaps, you sure have been around a long time. To your ex, you probably appear to be a woman...who remains available to him.

You know, you can still be a great stepmom, forever. That does NOT have to change. And When she's 14, her rights will increase too (are you in the US?) She can ask for more visitations and so can you.

Even if you are biologically unrelated, I have seen step parents granted mandatory visitation.

Maybe that can be worked on without any other expectations on your end and you can be around him as if YOU ONLY WANT his "co-parenting r" with you.

Like you are "Fond" of him b/c hey, he's a good FORMER bf,

and an old buddy you sort of feel sorry for

b/c you know what a great catch YOU are/deserve,

which HE has NOT been for quite some time, and is not now.


I really am in a much better place now. I am pretty happy most days. My home is my solace. I find peace there. One day when the time is right the right one will step into my life.


Well, you probably need to be on the dance floor to meet the dance partner, don't you think? ((Not that you are one of them, but I never understand women who believe they'll "meet someone" but literally don't go where the opposite sex is....just a pet peeve)). I think they don't believe effort is needed, but it is. I don't know how often love "Falls" in someone's lap.

Time does heal all wounds. One day you too will meet someone that treats you the way you deserve to be treated. We are role models for our daughters. We are teaching them what is acceptable and what is not. Big hugs to you.

Karma, you wrote this last^^ paragraph to Mom22...and I could have written it just that way,

to YOU. Your SD is watching you and praying that you'll show HER how to deal with such a setback and betrayal.

You have to model for her that your pain is deep, yes, but it's NOT FATAL

(for you will heal and you heal yourself, it's not "out there"in the universe, it's within you to heal yourself)

AND it's NOT ETERNAL b/c it does end. You will be happy again, laugh again, explore and venture and date AND LOVE AGAIN...

you'll choose wisely & extra carefully (b/c SHE is watching you)

and If & when you meet the deserving male, then you shall give yourself fully, but always in a manner that allows you safety.

The safety of knowing that no matter what someone does around us or to us,

we are not defined by it. We shall heal ourselves and move forward, starting now.

You sound like someone who doesn't mind being alone, but you are also someone still carrying a torch for a man who treated you quite shabbily, for quite some time. And he's not exactly winning prizes for winning you over sweeping you off your feet with proclamations of all that he's learned and realized and is NOW ready to commit and do right!!! Nope, not so much...

I'm not someone who minds being alone, though it's easier for me to say b/c I'd be near my family or close friends.
The one thing I'm sure is worse than being alone,
is wishing you were...

Question: What would you tell your SD if she dated a man like your ex?

Would you want her to marry him and have kids with him?

Would you want her to give up the chance to meet someone else way better suited and a ton more ready for commitment than her "bf" might never be?

B/C to me, you've spent the last several years in a relationship that is not acceptable, and you are here wondering how to get to a place where it is acceptable.

I'm sorry to say ^^^that. God, I really am.
-
The only thing you don't seem to have tried is being truly unavailable b/c you moved on.

Maybe it won't work. Maybe he's not up to it, and never will be for any real time.

But what you have been doing is not getting you the results you need/want. And there is damage being done to the SD -

and your "opportunity costs" (chance of meeting a better partner)

go up every year.

How long are you going to keep paying those costs?

[25yearsmlc]

PS

I hope you'll really do that 5-10 minute exercise and drop the rope for real.

Move on. Go forward. Act as if reality has sunk in, which is that he's NOT husband material. Be brave.

Be a GREAT LOVING step mother, and expect No lasting improvement from your ex h.

If he makes an adult choice about you, you'll know it. He knows what to do; he's 44 y/o! There won't be mystery or foggy stuff; it'll be clear & overt.

(If not, it's simply not worth turning around for.)

You've gained a wonderful SD for whom you are grateful. She's always going to be in your life.

Stay the course. I truly believe if there is a chance of him growing up for you, it'll be b/c he honestly think he's lost you.

And if he never wakes up or never does the work needed to win you back,

then Imagine her seeing you alone, but happy.

AND OR -- imagine her seeing you in a healthy loving M w/OM. Now that's a life lesson!


My .02

[Mom22]

I think thats a very good perspective: YOU ARE THE ONLY ROLEMODEL for your SD. Show her what you'd want HER to do if she was treated this way. This is why I am leaving. My daughter will NOT learn that this is acceptable behaviour.

25mlc has some good points. Go out! LOOK for a guy. I seriously have no idea where I d meet any men. But maybe some of your friends do?

There is no chance for reconcilliation right now. Maybe there will Mevrr be, but the only thing you can still control now is him losing you. Become happy with a man that deserved you. You might not even want him back then. :-)

[Karma12]

Hi 25yrs thanks for checking in and for all of your wise words.

I actually think that H. has ADD. I was the longest relationship H. Had and his only marriage. He didn't marry the bio Mom because she was addicted to coccaine. She was a legal secretary and he didn't know about the addiction when they met. They broke up and she went to rehab. While in rehad she contacted him and said she wanted to see him and share her experinces. He took her out on a day pass and she got pregnant with SD. She did use a few times while pregnant. They tried getting together again but it didn't work. Bio Mom did stop using and SD became her life. Bio Mom fought H tooth and nail over access. She was also DX as a Borderline Personality disorder. If you know anything about them you can imagine the conflict.

H. was good for all of our dating years. He was loving and engaged with me and SD. We were together for three years before getting engaged. We married six months later and the first two married years were good. ( other than the stress of the trial ) It was the last two that things went downhill. Especially the last year.

I agree that when the fight for SD ended and she was living with us full time H. was looking for as you said a new shinny something to focus on. Looking back part of it was all about winning. He was doing things with SD because he wanted her to want to live with us. Once she was he wasn't being the parent I thought he should be and he had been so I was thinking "what the heck?! " . I was becoming the primary parent.

I have four adult kids. 32-25. My daughter is 25. It was after I tried in the last year to get H. to re engage and after I tried to get him to seek IC or MC and after he had been not treating me the way I deserved for at least a year that I threw in the towel. I chose to leave. The final straw was he told me he was miserable in our relationship but refused to do anything about it. I told him you are miserable period and blaming me. I told him you are not treating me or our relationship with any respect. After all the support I gave you to gain custody of SD you owed it to both of us to at least try. I said to him that I am a role model to both of our daughters and I don't want them to think that the way you have been treating me is acceptable.

H. told SD that I was moving out ( without me present ) because I wanted to move closer to my cousin. I was met when I came home by a tearful SD asking if this was true. I told SD that no that want true. I told her that unfortunately her Dad did not love me in the way someone is supposed to when they are married. I told her that i had to leave in order for me to be happy. I promised I would not abandon her and would always be there for her. I involved her in my condo shopping and decorating. She slept with me every night until I left.

I am very close to my kids and see them often. My daughter lived with me for the first six months before moving in with her BF. I found it a big adjustment suddenly being an empty nester. I was going through most of my grieving in the first six months. I was most hurt by the betrayl. It's funny you mention thinking of H. As having passed away because I have used that analogy in my own mind.

I never stayed home and boo hooed. I have been through a lot in my life and do have pretty good coping skills. I went to Vegas, Mexico and the Carribean the first year. Last year I went on a Mediterranean cruise for 2 weeks. I go out with friends or and family. My kids and I are very close and love getting together. I workout many times per week. This year I'm hoping to take SD and my daughter to Mexico in July. Then go myself to Scotland in Sept. I was born there and my second eldest is living over there with his girlfriend.

After the H. And his AP broke up and he was more engaging with me it did trigger those old feelings and I did think maybe he had woken up. Now after our talk and after seeing the way he's been putting SD on the back burner to go date. It has made it much easier for me to detach. His behaviour especially towards his D. Disgusts me. He won't change now unless he goes for therapy. I haven't texted him or contacted him at all since Jan 1. I went through SD to arrange her coming over or she called me. I did see him when he picked her up. I was friendly but not any friendlier than I would be to an neighbor.

I did talk to SD. When she was here the other night. Thats the night she told me her Dad had come home at 630 in the am and tried to lie about it. I told her his behavior is not normal and is wrong. . I said it has nothing to do with you, it has nothing to do with me. There is something not right with him. I said you can't fix him and neither can I. I tried. He needs help that is beyond us. I said I know he loves you as much as he is able to love someone. I don't want you thinking you need to wait for love. You are love able and deserve more. I told her I love her and she has my whole family's love too. I said I will never regret meeting your Dad because he brought me to you. I told her I was sorry as I knew she had been hopeful seeing her Dad moving closer to me before his latest fling. I said I deserve to be happy too so I have to move on from your Dad now.

Im actually a people person. I don't like to be alone for too long. As long as I'm busy and have stuff to do im actually pretty happy. I Have always taken care of myself. I'm in pretty good shape and have never had a problem attracting men. Sometimes I think I'd like to date and sometimes I'm not so sure. I was married for 11 yrs the first time and spent almost 10 yrs with my second H. I like living on my own now. My place is great. I am out a lot so there will be opportunity in the future.

H. Still needs to pay me out some $$ by July once he does I will file for divorce. SD. does know she will have more say in the next year. She knows she can come to me or her Grandparents if she needs to. She's coming to my place for my sons bday dinner on Sunday.

Thanks again 25 yrs. your input is greatly appreciated. Yours too Mom22. I'm sure you can apply some of 25s advice to your sitch too.

[Karma12]

Oh and my thoughts on MLC? I was interested in what Wonka had to say about his experinces. I do believe some people go through a " life crisis" I don't believe that gives them a get out of jail free card. I think we all have to be held accountable for our behaviour. I can empathize with someone in crisis. I would not be waiting for 7 yrs. If my H had come around I still would not have jumped right back in. I would have had boundaries. He would have to have gone for IC. Otherwise what is to stop the pattern from repeating itself. If getting stressed and depressed equals blaming my spouse and stepping outside of the marriage then what happens the next time life throws you a curve ball and you are stressed or depressed?

My H. Is not sorry or trying to change. He is acting like an irresponsible adolescent. I don't want that in my life.

[Mom22]

You sound pretty together, thats good. You re very active and doing great stuff. Maybe the only thing left for now is to move on for real in yoir head and heart too. Like 25ymlc said maybe the only thing that works if you pretend he is dead. The man you married IS dead in many ways...
My situation does seem similar as i suspect my husband has add/adhd too.
I am convinced that ifyour H and mine too (after 2 affairs and a whole lot of cr@p) do not make a life change and or get professional help, they will never change for long. So yes im glad you re moving on! It may be the only thing that opens their eyes and if not, the only way you (and me) will move on.

Ps. My sisters live in Scotland. Small world.