OK, let me journal before I fall asleep. I will tackle the tough thinking q's tomorrow. I had a wonderful day with d18 (visiting for the week) and d17. S13 is spending the weekend with W (she begged me to come pick him up, I refused. I have such little time my daughters, I didn't want anything to take away from them).
So we visited together at my parents for a nice, peaceful visit. When my kids got hungry I took them out to a wing joint. We talked about politics, religions, gay rights (2 of her roommates caused the issue to be brought up), etc. and I wasn't preachy or obnoxious as I have been in the past. I let d18 share her new burgeoning liberal viewpoint without judgment. Amazingly, there were no tense moments. It was more fun discussion similar to last Monday's dinner.
D18 and d17 had some interesting thoughts about W, where I just listened. Some of it was icky, but I just kept quiet. D18 commented how good I was looking (lost weight), and I shared with them both some of the work I was doing on myself. D18 (a future psychologist) was impressed.
I also did share my thoughts with them that I was "committed" to honoring my marriage vows, even though W is not. And that I was working on myself so that I was healthier for my next relationship. D18 was really encouraging, while d17 was quiet.
Finally, I suggested d18 stay an extra week so she could attend her grandmother's funeral which is next Saturday. I called the airlines, and figured out how much extra it would cost. Then I sat down and talked with her about it. D18 was uneasy, and wouldn't tell me why she didn't want to stay. And in great lawyer-like fashion, I made her explain by going thru each issue, one-by-one and peeled away her reasons. The extra cost? I'll cover it. No clothes, d17 told her just wash the clothes she has here. Missing her friends - they will still be there in a week.
So d18 left it with me that she had to speak with W first. I didn't get it. But this had to be done face-to-face, instead of by phone. So I gave the daughters hugs, and told them to let me know what the decision was. I'm betting she goes back to Boston on tomorrow's flight.
AJ you asked "How does all that blend together in your visualization of the future?" I get it, when you've been separated as long as I have, the reality that she is not coming back should be faced.
My vision of the future is limited, and it always has been. But right now, after yesterday's meal with my daughters, it reinforced my understanding that my W cannot handle s13 who lives with her during the week. So I am planning on having s13 stay with me for the summer. W will not fight me on this, but she'll lose some of her child support, but so be it.
I know you were trying to help me focus on what my future looks like without my W. My delusion is fading. My W is not pining for the great man she lost, or filled with regrets from her choices. She is still very much self-focused, she is NOT being a good mother right now, and I will not be with this woman. Andin any event she will not be back.
So how do I want my new life to look like? I don't have any vision for myself but instead my focus is on my children. D20 and s13 need a calm, safe place to live, and this is my first priority. D18 and in the fall d17 will be away to school.
Perhaps a new job, and finding a place to serve (at church) or volunteer are also things that are important to me. It is also important to continue to make my relationships a priority with my family, friends, and groups I am involved in.
But dang, I really miss the companionship and love of a woman in my life. I don't know what to do about this, but today I can be patient. Let's see about tomorrow though...
T^2, I still don't know what to do about the obligation thing you and AJ were trying to help me see. I am so grateful to have both of you guys trying to help me. Thank you.
Wet, I'd say it's early days for the visualization. The fact that you can visualize it at all is a great sign. In your response, you highlighted what's important to you and what you'll do about it. You also gave a tip of the hat to the part you don't know about - misty part of that future. That's a great start.
Don't stop thinking about it as you nail the other items. I do strongly recommend finding a place to serve now. There's really no reason to wait for that. You'll be taking care of your daughters and your son but there's always room for serving others and being grateful for the chance and the ability. You may not have that forever
Missing the companionship? I get that. I really do.
Keep at it, Wet. I would say this as a last thought,
Quote:
My vision of the future is limited, and it always has been
and I might word it like this, "My vision of the future is limited, and it always WAS" I was like that too to some degree. Feels like autopilot looking back, but the reality was I was focused on what was important to me. I still am, but I'm refocusing what is important. All the time. Because I'm human and need to adjust me.
Keep at it.
Peace, AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Fwiw, I think you need to have a vision for yourself, your kids are watching you and learning how to deal with adversity... Mine did, and they are at similar ages. They are looking to you to show them how to navigate life's rough spots.
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
Thank you AJ. I think you kinda get me right now. I will try and use your line in the future - "My vision of the future is limited, and it always WAS". It does sound like a more ACTIVE statement than my more passive statement that my vision of the future is limited. Yes, it does feel like the autopilot is on sometimes.
Thank you T^2, I appreciate your trying to help me have a vision of the future, especially as my kids are watching. I get it, but ya'know, sometimes its difficult to figure out what the new me is going to look like.
OK, a quick journal. I just had a convo with my best friend who I've known for most of my life. He is having a tough time, his s17 was having a difficult with depression and they just moved him into a facility (out of the home, out of the state) where best friend and his W will have no contact with their son for several months.
I knew this would be hard on him, and so I called him over the weekend to see if he needed someone to talk to, to just listen. We had a nice convo.
But then he told me he had spoken to my W "more than once" telling her to make a decision on our marriage. To work on it, or to end it and move on. Now he is a "take charge" kinda guy. And he loves me and wants the best for me, and so I know he doesn't like having me hurt while my W is out playing the field. But I've told him many times I was not ready to move on, so I'm disappointed that he wasn't listening to me. Isn't it interesting how the different actors in our lives make free choices that may have an impact on things like our marriages?
But dang it. There's that flash of hope again for my marriage. Here someone is essentially telling my W to divorce me, and she continues to refuse. No mind-reading on her motivations for not signing the divorce papers, but as long as we continue to be married there is just a faint glimmer of hope.
So.. she's not divorcing you but she's playing the field?? Not sure I quite get that, but it's your life to live, right? And I get what he's saying - he's an outsider.
Quote:
I get it, but ya'know, sometimes its difficult to figure out what the new me is going to look like.
Here's an exercise that may help. If your son were going through this (God forbid) and you were to give him advice about his situation and his life, what would you want for him? Think carefully because you won't want him to miss some of the things in life that happen and help us grow, even if you don't like seeing the pain. Do the same if you were asked to give advice to a close friend in your situation. What would you tell them? How about a less close friend?
Any similarities in the advice?
I've known some people that have stayed faithful to their ex for 20 years or more. One guy I knew did it because he's Catholic and believed they were still married. She didn't. I dated his daughter and had a few conversations with him about it. I met his ex too. They could be in the same room together, but she is bat-s**t crazy I can tell you. Or is he? It tears him up and he has no religious basis for his actions. I suspect something else, but what do I know?
Another? A pastor friend of mine recently had to move because his wife ended their 20+ year marriage. Nobody's immune and although he's handling it, he's very hurt by it. Wasn't his choice, wasn't anything he did or didn't do. One minute things were fine and the next she was leaving. I know her. She's bat-sh*t crazy and I knew that the moment I met her years ago.
Mine? I helped her move out twice, but it wasn't what I wanted at the time. Looking back, I stood as long as I could. But let's face it, there was a point at which it was killing me for no real reason. It was keeping me from being me. What was I afraid of? Why was I holding back? What was I conveying to my kids by sticking around keeping the lights on? And believe me, she knew. She knew it was nothing to do with me. She may have accused me of all kinds of things, but there were times she'd tell me. It wasn't me. And her actions proved that out.
Know what? I started to visualize my life in the future. I started to re-examine everything about me. I went looking for why I was doing what I was doing. I found help here. And finally, somebody posted to me in anger and it helped me figure out the last brick in the wall. What was holding me back.
For me, I met my ex not long after my mom died. We were high-school sweethearts that married and moved away. We were close. Very. Even my daughter couldn't figure out why we were divorcing. But it occurred to me that I was looking to her to fulfill what I lost when my mom died. A strong woman in my family. A woman of high moral standards and ethics. She let me know (in words and actions) she wasn't able to be that person any longer and I didn't want to hear it. Once it clicked though...
I wouldn't go back if you paid me. Not that I'm at risk for that, but as I told my IC years ago (she knew us both, clinically) I had to be the one to leave my W, even though she moved out and "left" me and the kids. In many ways, my ex took (is taking?) years to get over the divorce. I've been done. My IC knew that would be the case too. It was evil the way she put it "you'll be done long before she is." That was heart wrenching to hear at the time. But she was right.
You have to decide for you, Wet. There's no right or wrong answer, but there are guidelines. Don't confuse the values of the world with your values. And don't assume you have all the time in the world to eventually make a decision. You are being watched and you won't live forever. But whatever you decide has to fit your values, ethics, beliefs, and life.
Keep at it, and things will become clearer. You are in a situation much like T2's was. You may want to re-read some of his older posts to see how he handled it. But try the exercises above first.
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Bravo for your friend! Why because he is saying what you need to say. She doesn't do anything? Then it is yours.
I was in pain waiting for him to decide. I was a crying mess that gave her power away. Now I hate having anyone try to control me. Ii don't want to be in pain, I change the situation until I can work it out.
You gave your power to her letting her decide both, actually your families future. When do you decide that your decisions are yours, independent of her and her playing the field?
kat
Me-53(and learning!) S24, S21, D18, D17 Just keep swimming, Just keep swimming. Dory
Thanks AJ and Kat. AJ, your suggestion that I think about the advice I would give to my s13, or a friend if they were going thru the problem of a walk-away spouse who is dating other men is interesting, and a helpful exercise.
But right now it's only me who is facing this. And my W is in a mid-life crisis. She's confused. And I know it takes a long time, if and when she MIGHT come to her senses. And even if she does regain her senses, there is no guarantee that she will want to be back with me. I get this.
Which is why the DB board, the DR book, and everyone's advice to me is so important. I can only control myself, and I am working on me right now, and doing my best for our kids.
But today I am being patient in dealing with my MLC W. Kat, I don't think I've given my W control of our sitch. I will know when it's time to give up and force the divorce. But it's not today.
But right now it's only me who is facing this. And my W is in a mid-life crisis. She's confused. And I know it takes a long time, if and when she MIGHT come to her senses. And even if she does regain her senses, there is no guarantee that she will want to be back with me. I get this.
I would ask then....
IF...SHE is the one in crisis...
Why do you allow her to dictate to you, what your future is ??
You seem paralyzed by fear, of whether this will "work" out or not.
And is totally affecting your answer about how you see your life, and future...
What is it, exactly...that YOU are facing ???
What senses , exactly, are YOU hoping the SHE comes to ???
You still sound quite a bit superior, and judgmental towards her and her choices.
Would YOU wanna come back to that ??
And I agree with Kat, you have given almost every bit of power, to your spouse. She holds the key on how high you jump, how you respond, how you interact, how you parent your children, etc...
