Forging Through the Unknown

[daring]

It's hard finding the balance between being kind and supportive (gently helping him out of the tunnel???), being sure to keep a healthy dynamic (not falling back into old habits which didn't work), boundary setting, and keeping my own emotions in check while dealing with the past, the present, and trying to find my way into the future.

^^^^^^ it's like you are in my brain and succinctly put together all I'm thinking!
My STBXH wants to be friends " remain close" as he says. I just don't think I can do that right now. Like you the rejection, the idea that the one person that took vows to stand by me has walked away, is just devastating.
But on the other hand I love him and you love your XH and we want to help them out of this MLC tunnel and hopefully see them grow.

Something that I've noticed in my sitch and I think applies to yours right now:
My H has started to realize partly what he's done and his contribution to the mess. But he hasn't started to do the work. It's like they start to see the damage, feel the pain and guilt, and then run back into the tunnel. That's when the blaming starts again. I see your H being overwhelmed with his mess and he just can't deal.

Don't know that I have any great words of wisdom- just that hopefully time will help us heal and them grow.
Keeping you in my prayers!!

[job]

Mighty and daring,
You can be there to listen and if asked, give your thoughts, advise, etc., but they've got to figure things out on their own. I know you love your h's very much, but they need to feel the pain, go thru the pain, realize what they've done and yes, clean up their messes and if they truly want to return to you, the relationship and family, then they have to be the ones to do the necessary work to prove to you that they are ready to take on the challenge of earning your trust once again.

Step back, allow them to figure things out and be there as the lighthouse in their storm of emotional coasters. This is the only way that you can help them. If you try to help them too much, they will either not learn the lessons that they need to learn in order to grow and mature into healthy human beings or they'll run right back up into the tunnel for a bit longer.

Nothing says you have to be "friends" right now, but you can be civil, courteous and compassionate. Try to keep your focus on you, your children and your lives for now.

This is a difficult journey for all, but more so when they start to show signs of wanting to be w/family. Don't rush the process, allow them to figure things out, i.e., in other words don't rescue them any more than you have to, unless you find yourself in a financial situation.

Both of you are doing very well in spite of what has been thrown at you. And, yes, you will be the ones to make the decision as to whether you want to reconcile w/them if they do the work necessary and earn your trust once again...but that's down the road a bit.

[AJM]

I'm staying busy, but honestly, it's not enough. I just can't seem to find what it is that I want to do with myself.

So, um, what are you going to do while you wait? Lots of frenetic energy and introspection? Painting? Basketball? Skydiving? Meditation? Travel the world?
What's the recharging mechanism for Mighty?

AJ- It's interesting that you see the ball in my court. I feel that halfway. I think I want to feel that he wants this and would really put effort into this- then I would make a decision. I feel like I want to be the one to decide. I think I fear another rejection. When I really think about it, I guess that if weren't to work out, I would want it to be my call. Isn't that terrible? It's not that I think I don't want it to work out.... but I just don't know what I want- but I do know I don't want to be rejected like that again.

We all want a happy ending, don't we? Even Jack can admit he's sometimes a Polyanna. And that's saying something! But it seems ex is behind you in his growth. He'll need to make a large effort to catch up to say the least. And it may be too late for him to catch up. You have dealt with so many very painful things that he has yet to address in addition to whatever the original problem was. He's moving, but he's not done and is just not in the same place. Yet and may not ever be at the same time you are. Because you may not want to be there. You are very much in control and even if felt to be unfair (it's not), have that power.

Let's face it, you're not done dealing with the fallout of everything that happened. And you're once again figuring out what the future relationship will look like with ex. Good friends? Lovers? Partners? Bitter enemies or even frienemies?

Honestly, I don't even want to finish the conversation anymore (just disappointed about how it went down). I am just tired of it. Xh probably feels the same way.

Stop doing this to yourself. You do NOT know why. Don't guess. You'll get it wrong more often than not.

That could be why he is not only avoiding it, but avoiding me now. And that's OK (not the avoiding conversation- something that needs to stop), but for him to take care of stuff. He has so many conversations to have, that he is probably sick of it, too.

See above comment. But stop this kind of thinking, ok?

The other day, xh and I were talking, and I mentioned that it never would go back to the way it was. He seemed taken aback by this and asked why. I said bc he is not the same, I am not the same, the kids aren't the same, and things have changed. He seemed really down and disappointed to hear this. It's kind of sad. I have seen him try to make everything around here like it was before he left (remember- even paint color!), and talks about how good it was before he left (but he didn't realize it until after he left), and how we had such a good life, a happy life, and we didn't have any real problems in our family (That's an understatement compared to now!). But I don't think it ever crossed his mind that it won't be the same.

These are the two things that tell me he isn't finished baking yet He hasn't hit full realization yet and doesn't see the upside of the events yet. Think about it. You've changed and he's changed. But you've done a LOT of work, while for him, time stood still outside his head and inside...well, that's not really the kind of stuff that helps him keep up, now is it?

You are right, AJ, I can now look back with a different perspective. Some things may and could be the same. Other things can't. And some... need to change.

It's hard finding the balance between being kind and supportive (gently helping him out of the tunnel???), being sure to keep a healthy dynamic (not falling back into old habits which didn't work), boundary setting, and keeping my own emotions in check while dealing with the past, the present, and trying to find my way into the future.

Kind of like driving right? When you first start it's all about "check the mirrors, hands at 10 and 2, no no, that's not right anymore, make that....and don't forget to check the mirrors when you ease into traffic, use your turn signal! Stop. Go. Speed up, keep up, slow down...." Whew. Seems overwhelming when you first start and put so much conscious energy into it worrying about getting it "right" doesn't it?

One thing that may help is re-framing the question. The original question of "how can I love somebody who did this unfair thing(s) to me and my kids??" could be reframed to "Even though he did these things, is it ok to love him anyway??"

It may also help to know that you survi...no, thrived even though the unthinkable (at that time) happened. You can and would do it again if needed. Not pleasant, but not the end of the world either.

You are different. And amazing, but weighed down with a bit of stuff you didn't expect to have to deal with. The good news is, you are one of those that the experience will make better and not bitter. Just try to do it without making excuses for his behavior. That's a form of trying to reconcile it in your head, but comes out as rose-colored glasses. That won't help long-term.

AJ

[LoisB]

We all want a happy ending, don't we? Even Jack can admit he's sometimes a Polyanna. And that's saying something! wink But it seems ex is behind you in his growth. He'll need to make a large effort to catch up to say the least. And it may be too late for him to catch up. You have dealt with so many very painful things that he has yet to address in addition to whatever the original problem was. He's moving, but he's not done and is just not in the same place. Yet and may not ever be at the same time you are. Because you may not want to be there. You are very much in control and even if felt to be unfair (it's not), have that power.

Let's face it, you're not done dealing with the fallout of everything that happened. And you're once again figuring out what the future relationship will look like with ex. Good friends? Lovers? Partners? Bitter enemies or even frenemies?

A.J.,

I think I get it. I may only have it for 15 seconds or so, but I get it.

I've had a hard time wrapping my head around this idea that the LBS is still in control of the relationship. I've really struggled with this one. I've felt so outta control. Smokey seems to impact every area of my life with his actions and crazy.

Mighty,

In the days of yore...for a good 3 decades of my life, I had Smokey wrapped, somewhat, around my little finger. He loved me and he would do whatever was necessary to keep me around. At least, that's how it felt. He would buy tampons if I asked, he would stop doing drugs, temporarily, to keep me in his life.

I was watching a comedy the other night and I watched this played out on my TV scene. This guy was in love and willing to do silly things because he loved this woman and wanted to make her happy. I felt sad because I remember that experience and longed for it. The victim inside me started thinking, "What happened to that guy? How could HE leave ME?"

Now, in my current life, at this stage of the MLC roller coaster, Smokey seems to have rejected me, at least for the moment, completely. I'm persona non grata. I think THIS is what you are afraid of going back to. The complete rejection by someone we love.

Your guy has given you a morsel of his loving you again and you are feeling caught in a barbed wire fence, in my opinion. Part of you is drawn to that comfortable feeling of his loving you again. Part of you hates him for what he has done.

But, here's the thing...even I, in my current state of utter rejection, still have control.

I can give up control completely by acting the victim with Smokey. Or, I have the choice of being the girl/woman he fell in love with...someone who is kind, generous, funny, smart, goofy and endearing, beautiful, amazing...AND, NOW, thanks to his insanity... incredibly strong and resilient.

When I go into victim mode, I'm giving up all control. I'm allowing him to drive the bus.

When I embrace that I have choices...and, even acknowledge, that if I really wanted to...I probably have the power to get that same wacked out guy to buy more tampons for me. I could. I still know him better than anyone on this planet. If I threw myself into getting him back into my life, chances are I could slowly make progress. If I choose to go that route. I might have to give up a lot, though...my self-respect, my integrity...IDK.

But, the question is...do I want to work that hard? Am I willing to give that much up? Do I want to lose myself again in that trap of making someone else the nerve center of my life.

It all comes back to me.

Ultimately, the marriages that seem to work out, on these boards at least, are the ones where the LBS stops working so hard on the spouse, focuses on themselves, and regains the control of their life which they lost and put all of of their energy into making themselves great. The spouse has the choice to do the work or not.

What a slippery, tricky slope. Let go to regain control. Give unconditional love without expectations. Allow someone to make their own mistakes and own them. Take charge of your own life and make the conscious decision to love with detachment.

I will never stop loving Smokey, but I can fall out of love with the unrealistic fantasy I had of him. I can look at him honestly as an imperfect human being who is a bit limited in his current state. And, in turn, I'm giving him a much greater gift...which he is totally oblivious to see, where I'm loving him enough to back the he!! off.

When you sleep next to someone for decades, you develop a bond...a biochemical bond which is really hard to sever. I think that chemistry makes it hard for us to face some hard truths when dealing with someone with so many problems. We want what feels good. We don't want the pain.

I'm afraid, however, the pain will be there regardless of which direction you choose.

And, I wonder, in my case at least, did I make the decision a while ago to let Smokey go? I mean, I'm sure there was a point where I could have accommodated him to keep the marriage going. At some point, did I become stronger and realize I wanted more? I stopped being OK with him as he was? Did I leave the marriage first?

I think what I did was make it clear I wanted more and he could either step up or leave. I allowed the fractures to grow larger. I didn't even know I was making this statement.

Sorry for the hijack. This just touched a nerve today.

[uRworthy]

First of all, I want in on that weekend...just sayin.

Mighty, would you want to have any kind of conversation if you were him? Not saying that's right. Just saying that after what he's done and all...I'm thinking that he would just like you to forget it and pretend it all didnt happen as it did.

The thing about you having power and control, at least in my eyes is this. You get to decide how you act. You get to decide what you say. You get to determine how you feel about him and about yourself. You get to decide if you are willing to try with him or not.

You do have power in all this. A great deal of it. I think that you have these ideas in your head of how he should act if he really wants back in. But they may not be the same ideas he has. I would imagine he is thinking he will just slip back into his old life with a little variation regarding his responsibility to the baby and you will be ok with that.

The power is again yours in that you get to decide if you are on board.

What I honestly think is that you need to come to terms with all the has happened in a short amount of time, M, before you can really figure out what you want.

This is huge stuff that transpired. Huge. And you have been on autopilot for awhile. Putting out fires with your son, getting divorced, your mom being sick, your xh having an affair and a baby, etc.

I think you should put off even trying to decide what you want for right now and just work on coming to terms with all that's happened.

Find your footing, M. Regroup some.

And really accept that your xh has to figure his stuff out. He cant do that while looking over his shoulder at you. He just cant.

Then take the time to really look at what you want and what that looks like.

As long as you are so focused on him and where his is and if he calls, you cant figure out Mighty.

[kml]

I thought I posted about this before, but - what was his answer when you asked him about the paternity test?

[Mighty]

Hey guys. Deep breath. Not good right now, but I am sure I will bounce back soon.

I did go today with the kids and xh to the movies and out to eat. It was fine. When we got home, the kids were getting ready to go to my moms to finish helping her out. I mentioned to xh that it would be a good time to finish our convo (we discussed this before leaving to movies). He said he was taking the movie back (he and s17 rented last night) and he'd be back in a minute. Then he texted me that he was going, "you know where."

I was devastated. Blown off again... so he could go there. I called him (something I stopped doing over a year ago)to tell him that it was disrespectful to tell me he'd be right back, then call her and make plans. Ugh. Kick in the gut.

So he said we could talk over the phone as he drove there. He refused to do it to my face and he just doesn't get it. He said he needs space, and I told him that's what the convo was about and that we needed to set up arrangements for the kids and everything. He was like, oh so you don't want me coming over anymore? I said that I didn't like how he took the part of the conversation that was had as having space, meaning he just doesn't tell me what he is doing and still coming and going here. That I am uncomfortable with him being totally comfortable sitting in my house, then leaving and being totally comfortable sitting with her at her house.

He says that it is just about the kids now and he does not want to focus on a r with me or her. OK, so now.... I wonder if he is considering going back to her. OMG. I really wonder. I asked him straight out if he has considered it and he just said that he isn't thinking about that with anyone right now. Before he would tell me that there is no way he would ever go back there. Now, with the baby here, EVERYTHING has changed with him. Everything he said he was going to do and say is different. He didn't anticipate how he would really feel about the baby, and I wonder if that changes how he feels about hww.

OK, so I will just focus on the fact that he wants to focus on the kids. I will respect that... even thought that's exactly what I was trying to establish a week ago.

But, yes, the rejection. I feel it's stinging, slicing pain. He regrets all he told me after he left hww.

I feel disrespected that he would run there before she had the baby for "closure" for "plans" about what to do with baby, stuff, etc. Yet, he does not give me the same courtesy. He still has stuff there, and he moved out 2 months ago. His mailing address is still there, too.

I think he is regressing. I wonder if now how much. I wonder if he will go back because of the baby to try to get it right this time or something.

I have got to get this out of my head. But now, here I am.... kids are gone with my car again and I'm here alone. I would have gone with them if I'd known he was going to blow me off. Instead, he is there with his other family.

I know I'm not totally back at square one. I've been through this before, kind of. But I just can't seem to break the cycle. I can't totally get out of this. I just don't know how to find happiness anymore. First, bomb, then nuke. What's this? Operation Baby Drop?

What point will this end? I am so tired of the hurt. I don't get a baby out of this. He thinks it's difficult, but he gets another child to love and to love him.

I keep asking WHY? I hate complaining. I don't want to feel sorry for myself. I just don't get why. Like why did I have to beg for a reversal? He would cancel the appointments and I would reschedule them.

I feel sad that he can't be a friend for me. That he can't give me support that I need. The person who was supposed to be there for me the most. He has to go to his baby as I sob. And I understand he has to be there for his baby. I just feel like the bottom barrel. Empty. Like I've got no one. I'm tired of being alone. I'm tired of being pushed aside. I'm tired of not being a priority in anyone's life.

AAAHHHHH! I am so grossed out by how pathetic I sound. I just wish that sometimes he could just be here for me. Not even have to say a word, but know that he would set something aside for once... anything, just to be there for me. But he's not. And he won't. And he doesn't want to be. So why would I want someone who can't and doesn't want to be there for me?

These are the thoughts I have to keep in mind. And maybe someone would be someday. But I can't rely on that. Especially rely on the idea of some non-existent person being there for me. I don't even want to have to rely on the idea of someone being there. I've done OK without anyone for the last year. I mean, I guess OK. I've pulled myself out of some down days. But I guess I am just wishing I didn't have to continue to do that.

OK, this is only a moment. That does make me feel better to think that. But, I have to remind myself that a lot. When will these moments STOP?

I'm so sorry. This is so lame. Pity part is coming to an end. I feel a little better. Crap! I can't wait for the day where I have nothing but positivity and good news! Geesh!

I have got to get out of my own head. I don't know what steps to take anymore, though. I don't know where to go, what to do, how to get there. What happened to me? I was doing better. I feel like I am at a stand-still, just spinning around in circles.

One thing that bothers me is xh will ask me or text me, Are you OK? I hate that. I always say I'm fine. Even when I'm not. BC, what the heck is he going to do? Nothing. Why does he ask? Does it make him feel better?

Well... that's that. This close proximity is too much. I asked him if he was going to get an apartment (he had indicated before, a few times, that he'd be back here after leaving bil- yet I always suggested he get his own place for awhile). He said he would be getting an apartment but staying with bil for awhile to save money. Man, he sure has blown a lot of money the past year.

I doubt he will take the baby to bil, so I guess visits will always be at hww for quite some time.

Not my problem. I've got my own stuff to figure out. Like which direction to step. But I am really scared to step. That realization makes me cry. When did I become such a wimp?! Dang it. I am so frustrated right now.

OK, I've got to stop this rant now. Thank God this is anonymous.

[Mighty]

Let the 2x4's swing away!

[Mighty]

Oh, Ellie... results tomorrow. But he's like 100% sure it's his.

[Ss06]

I'm sorry, Mighty.

I'm so, so sorry.

This is the best place to spew and get it all out. Seriously. There are so many things wrong with what is going down in your life that who could possibly blame you for feeling down and abandoned and left behind yet AGAIN?!

My situation is completely different but I have found that close proximity is SUPER hard and just way too much to handle. His come and go as he pleases attitude is asking too much.

Your support of him being there for the baby is admirable and a level of adult-hood I'm not sure I'll ever reach but that does not mean you have to lay down and accept his cavalier treatment of you. You matter. Remind yourself of that.

The reality is, you can't rely on him to be there for you... at least not yet. He's just not there yet. YOU need to be there for you. YOU do. And you have the power and the will to do it. You're entitled to wail for a bit, absolutely, but in the end, YOU'RE there for YOU.

Can you call a friend to pick you up and go get some coffee? 1 hour. Nothing serious. I find that after something like this, if I'm alone I will think only about it and not move on for DAYS!