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Vanilla #2530701 01/25/15 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted By: Vanilla
Rzr

Can say very little to help, as I have no experience of piecing.

But the one thing I can go back to, like an old refrain is STFU about OM.

Vanilla



And you're absolutely right. I have been VERY bad about that. I'm not violent or hateful by nature, but I've never experienced the depths of hatred I have for OM...and their A was tame in the grand scheme of things. Just taking it a day at a time right now. Today I haven't mentioned OM at all. One day down.

Last edited by Rzrback; 01/25/15 12:44 AM.

Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

Mozza #2530702 01/25/15 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted By: Mozza
Originally Posted By: Rzrback
This may be a better question for the men. Is it common to feel like you have no libido when you're going through a sitch like this. I think Amy Adams could come sit on my lap right now and it wouldn't do anything for me.
I don't think Betty White would be safe on my lap right now. My sitch is different though. Seems like a good topic for a man cave.


Betty White! Love it.

Truth be told, even my W could bring me alive right now. I just have times where it's hard to imagine.

Last edited by Rzrback; 01/25/15 12:42 AM.

Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

sandi2 #2530707 01/25/15 01:23 AM
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Originally Posted By: sandi2
Quote:
It's almost like it never crossed her mind that I could be the one to decide our marriage wasn't working instead of her. She point blank told me that she was frightened by that prospect. Whether she's actually afraid of losing me


Have you listened to anything Starsky or I have said? JK, we just happen to bring that point up quite often to newcomers.

Quote:
Geez. Got dragged into another R talk. She's overwhelmed with our problems, she's panicky, etc.

She reiterated yet again how she doesn't trust me, isn't in love with me, and can't get it back. I asked her if that was how she truly felt, the why was she sticking around? She basically told me it was because she couldn't take care of herself and didn't have any better prospects
.

I don't know what to tell you that hasn't already been said. STFU with the R talks! What does it take to get that through you skull? And stop blaming her for "dragging" you into it. She didn't force you to say anything.

Look, she is probably feeling a bit panicky and doubting that she made the right decision about OM (if she did indeed make it). She is trying to verbally hash it out by bringing up the same old stuff. I told you she would be depressed. SHE'S DEPRESSED! What the heck did you expect, a party? She wants to know she's made the right choice. So act like the right choice!

I know exactly how she feels. I felt the same way about my H and had plenty of doubts, too. I had no positive or good feelings toward him. I had no hope in the MR getting better, but I could not make it on my own financially. I felt trapped and couldn't breathe. Baically felt my life was over. In other words, I was not a happy camper! However, I was here. Your W is still there. .


OK, I needed that 2x4 now, Sandi.

I know all this. I was venting more than anything. It's just frustrating.

I don't really know where we are at this point. To a certain extent, we seem to be moving past the A. I know he's in her head too much, but they're not communicating. There was very little conversation when he was in town this week, and none after hours. Neither one of them made any effort to connect while he was here. She swears that he's in the "friend zone". Whatever. But it's not like I can disprove that in any way.

So, we're kind of in limbo. It doesn't necessarily feel like we're in piecing (I guess it depends on the day). The therapist advised us to stop getting into R talks, but that fell flat with her. She's afraid that if we stop talking about our issues then we (meaning me) will fall back into old habit patterns and go back to our bad old life. As if I'm that weak. To her, R talks make her feel closer to me...I don't know how that can be; we usually end up angry at each other. I usually come out of those feeling less optimistic.

I expected her to be depressed; Your last paragraph, Sandi, captures her rhetoric perfectly. She doesn't see anything good about staying with me, but she doesn't see anything good being on her own, either. She actually thinks that she's too old (at 43!) to attract a man and find that connection she says is dead with me.

So, what I'm doing...

I want my life back. I've stopped spending every evening locked in our room with her, talking in circles. If she wants to lay in there and play on Facebook constantly, that's her decision. But I want to stay busy and keep living. Specifically:

Concentrating on fitness...physical, mental and spiritual.
Working on getting a better job.
Doing better at my current job.
Continuing to build my flight instructing business.
Being with my kids.
Talking to friends.

If she wants to come and spend time with me, she's welcome. But I'm not going to spend every waking moment hanging around her.

I'm trying STFU about OM, which has been a huge challenge for me. My hatred for him is starting to burn me up, and it puts walls between me and W. I know that for our relationship to survive I'll need to put the A behind me sooner or later.


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

NH115 #2530808 01/25/15 04:37 PM
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Quote:
To her, R talks make her feel closer to me...I don't know how that can be; we usually end up angry at each other. I usually come out of those feeling less optimistic.


Before my A, I would do the same thing. I was disparate to feel a connection with my H. We were not meeting each other's emotional needs. The only way I knew to do to fix things was to talk about it. He would clam up and not say a word or look at me, so I would get even more upset b/c I felt he was not cooperating. It certainly was not the response I wanted from him.

I doubt your angry reaction is what your W is seeking. She feels lost and confused. She can't see hope. Remember, she is not the one here on the board, so she doesn't have the toolbox. In a way, with her still going to you to talk, she seems to still be trying to discuss it and find a solution through the discussion, but IDK. If she wasn't talking about it, I think there would be more to worry about at this particular time.

I think you need to find a better way to respond that won't sound as if you don't care, and won't make you sound angry & cold.

Quote:
I don't really know where we are at this point. To a certain extent, we seem to be moving past the A. I know he's in her head too much, but they're not communicating.


My OM was in my head for quite some time. She can't just erase him at will. It is part of the grieving and getting over it. Maybe you shouldn't try to gage where you are by your measuring instrument. Like I said, she's still there. Whether you believe she should be doing more or acting better, that is your VP. She is doing the best she can at the moment. Trust me, just staying within the same four walls can be an accomplishment for some WAW'S who have been in an EA.

Quote:
So, we're kind of in limbo. It doesn't necessarily feel like we're in piecing (I guess it depends on the day).


What does piecing feel like?

Quote:
The therapist advised us to stop getting into R talks, but that fell flat with her. She's afraid that if we stop talking about our issues then we (meaning me) will fall back into old habit patterns and go back to our bad old life. As if I'm that weak.


Ha! You need to look back at the old threads and see how many men returned to the board saying they fell into old habits after things got better again. It took another bomb for them to get off their lazy a$$es again. So, your W is concerned, and perhaps she has a right to be. After all, just how long have you been this new person? One thing she is not seeing new in you, is how you react to her R talks.

Quote:
To her, R talks make her feel closer to me...I don't know how that can be; we usually end up angry at each other. I usually come out of those feeling less optimistic.


mad Seriously? She just told you what it takes for her to feel closer to you.......and what do you do? You discard it b/c it doesn't make sense to you.

I think the woman is craving emotional intimacy and her way of connecting is by talking about the relationship between you. In other words, she wants to hear you talk about her in a positive, loving, and flattering way that will make her feel good, much like you may have done when the R was young. For an example, telling her something about what you thought the first time you saw her. How you felt the first time you started to kiss her. Some of us women like to hear that stuff.

No, she doesn't have good feelings right now, but she is still turning to you, it seems. What if she looked at you pleadingly and said, "Help me. I don't have the strength you do. I am empty and scared. Please be strong enough for both us, until I can get through this stinking withdrawal and depression". I think that's what she is really trying to say, but she isn't using the correct words.

Right now, both of you have raw emotions and it may hard for you to know how to swing the conversation around to where it would sound more loving. How can you build her up without telling her what YOU think SHE should DO? That is not building her up, that is trying to fix her the way you see it.

I suggest the next time you feel her dragging you into a R talk, you just concentrate on not replying with a tart answer or getting angry. Just listen. Let her express her concerns. As 25 yrs says, listen like a lover would. Do you have any idea what that would be like?

Quote:
I want my life back. I've stopped spending every evening locked in our room with her, talking in circles. If she wants to lay in there and play on Facebook constantly, that's her decision. But I want to stay busy and keep living.


Fine, then don't spend every evening locked in your room with her. It doesn't sound like it was very pleasant talking in circles (which sounds to me that you were do way too much arguing with her and trying to get her to see things your way). But when you are around her, be charming, fun, interesting, happy, etc. Those are qualities that are contagious and lift people's spirit.

I am sure some of us could help guide you in some of those tougher conversations. With some WAW's, I could see cutting her off and walking out of the room and announcing you are not doing it again (R talk). HP's WAW is a good example. But I don't see your W being like his. You can correct me if I am wrong.

Quote:
If she wants to come and spend time with me, she's welcome. But I'm not going to spend every waking moment hanging around her.


Well thank goodness for that! Why would you believe you should have spent every waking moment hanging around her? Ever heard of giving space to breathe?


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
sandi2 #2530833 01/25/15 06:37 PM
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Rzr,

Sandis advice is better than i'm going to give so please concentrate on that.

If you can find some time to watch a couple of you tube videos on non-violent communication. Its basically about trying to listen past the judgement and blame and all the other stuff to hear the feelings.

and remember there fundamentally nearly everything is driven by one of two emotions - love or fear. right now your wife is afraid, really afraid. what would you do for your daughters if they were afraid?


Both mid 30s, 2 young kids
BD 7sep14
XW moved on long ago, now living with OM1
D paperwork in progress
sandi2 #2531068 01/26/15 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted By: sandi2
Quote:
To her, R talks make her feel closer to me...I don't know how that can be; we usually end up angry at each other. I usually come out of those feeling less optimistic.


Before my A, I would do the same thing. I was disparate to feel a connection with my H. We were not meeting each other's emotional needs. The only way I knew to do to fix things was to talk about it. He would clam up and not say a word or look at me, so I would get even more upset b/c I felt he was not cooperating. It certainly was not the response I wanted from him.

I doubt your angry reaction is what your W is seeking. She feels lost and confused. She can't see hope. Remember, she is not the one here on the board, so she doesn't have the toolbox. In a way, with her still going to you to talk, she seems to still be trying to discuss it and find a solution through the discussion, but IDK. If she wasn't talking about it, I think there would be more to worry about at this particular time.

I think you need to find a better way to respond that won't sound as if you don't care, and won't make you sound angry & cold.


This is true. I'm trying so hard to not sound needy that I end up coming off as cold, which is certainly NOT my intent. A lot of her rhetoric right now consists of blaming me for the state of our marriage, and even the A to a certain extent. My knee-jerk reaction is to defend myself, which makes me sound, well, needy. And angry.

Quote:


My OM was in my head for quite some time. She can't just erase him at will. It is part of the grieving and getting over it. Maybe you shouldn't try to gage where you are by your measuring instrument. Like I said, she's still there. Whether you believe she should be doing more or acting better, that is your VP. She is doing the best she can at the moment. Trust me, just staying within the same four walls can be an accomplishment for some WAW'S who have been in an EA.



Quote:
The therapist advised us to stop getting into R talks, but that fell flat with her. She's afraid that if we stop talking about our issues then we (meaning me) will fall back into old habit patterns and go back to our bad old life. As if I'm that weak.

Ha! You need to look back at the old threads and see how many men returned to the board saying they fell into old habits after things got better again. It took another bomb for them to get off their lazy a$$es again. So, your W is concerned, and perhaps she has a right to be. After all, just how long have you been this new person? One thing she is not seeing new in you, is how you react to her R talks.


I completely (when not in the heat of battle) see where she's coming from. I know, and have never denied, that I helped get our marriage to this vulnerable state. I just draw the line at taking responsibility for the A itself. She doesn't have a good enough track record with me to see that we won't slide back to the bad old days. I think she's conveniently forgetting a lot of our good times too, but pointing those things out doesn't do a lot of good.

Quote:
To her, R talks make her feel closer to me...I don't know how that can be; we usually end up angry at each other. I usually come out of those feeling less optimistic.


mad Seriously? She just told you what it takes for her to feel closer to you.......and what do you do? You discard it b/c it doesn't make sense to you.

I think the woman is craving emotional intimacy and her way of connecting is by talking about the relationship between you. In other words, she wants to hear you talk about her in a positive, loving, and flattering way that will make her feel good, much like you may have done when the R was young. For an example, telling her something about what you thought the first time you saw her. How you felt the first time you started to kiss her. Some of us women like to hear that stuff.

No, she doesn't have good feelings right now, but she is still turning to you, it seems. What if she looked at you pleadingly and said, "Help me. I don't have the strength you do. I am empty and scared. Please be strong enough for both us, until I can get through this stinking withdrawal and depression". I think that's what she is really trying to say, but she isn't using the correct words.

Right now, both of you have raw emotions and it may hard for you to know how to swing the conversation around to where it would sound more loving. How can you build her up without telling her what YOU think SHE should DO? That is not building her up, that is trying to fix her the way you see it.


I suggest the next time you feel her dragging you into a R talk, you just concentrate on not replying with a tart answer or getting angry. Just listen. Let her express her concerns. As 25 yrs says, listen like a lover would. Do you have any idea what that would be like?


I wish I knew what that would be like. I think you've hit on a core point. I don't know how to make the conversation more loving, and I do get bogged down in defending myself, even though one of the first things I learned from DB was that this doesn't work. This is where I get frustrated. I know that DB involves NOT getting into unproductive R talks. I don't want to ignore her; I want to engage with her, but without getting angry or defensive. That was one of the reasons I had to commit to letting my hatred of OM go. My hatred of OM and resentment of W have been getting in the way of me engaging with her productively. How do I talk with her in a way that builds her up when all I hear from her is "this is your fault"? Her rhetoric this week has been mostly angry.

Quote:
I want my life back. I've stopped spending every evening locked in our room with her, talking in circles. If she wants to lay in there and play on Facebook constantly, that's her decision. But I want to stay busy and keep living.


Quote:

Fine, then don't spend every evening locked in your room with her. It doesn't sound like it was very pleasant talking in circles (which sounds to me that you were do way too much arguing with her and trying to get her to see things your way). But when you are around her, be charming, fun, interesting, happy, etc. Those are qualities that are contagious and lift people's spirit.

I am sure some of us could help guide you in some of those tougher conversations. With some WAW's, I could see cutting her off and walking out of the room and announcing you are not doing it again (R talk). HP's WAW is a good example. But I don't see your W being like his. You can correct me if I am wrong.



No, cutting her off and walking away would not be the way to go. That would just make her feel more alone.

Quote:
If she wants to come and spend time with me, she's welcome. But I'm not going to spend every waking moment hanging around her.

Well thank goodness for that! Why would you believe you should have spent every waking moment hanging around her? Ever heard of giving space to breathe?


No, we both needed space to breathe! I want to give her space, but then if I leave her alone too much then I'm ignoring her, she feels disconnected from me, etc. All the usual things. I honestly can't figure out what it is she wants, and it can change several times in a day.

We didn't really have much in the way of R talks this weekend. It was really busy, and she was sick through a lot of it. She was receptive to affection from me...She did want me to curl up with her when we went to sleep last night, so I took that as a good sign.

My relationship goals for the week

1. Not initiate R talks, but engage with her positively when they happen. In other words, try and get my damn ego out of it.

2. Not mention OM unless absolutely necessary. If I do, keep it short and not go off on what a cockroach he is.


Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

NH115 #2531116 01/26/15 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted By: Rzrback
Originally Posted By: Vanilla
Rzr

Can say very little to help, as I have no experience of piecing.

But the one thing I can go back to, like an old refrain is STFU about OM.

Vanilla



And you're absolutely right. I have been VERY bad about that. I'm not violent or hateful by nature, but I've never experienced the depths of hatred I have for OM...and their A was tame in the grand scheme of things. Just taking it a day at a time right now. Today I haven't mentioned OM at all. One day down.


This kind of hate and anger seems to emanate from fear. If you address the fears about OM and reframe it then the hate will dissipate. Either that or as a tactic making OM insignificant to you. OM is insignificant and irrelevant, they are a symptom not a cause.

Rzr you are addressing the cause of the issue, your R with W. In the long run the symptom will dissipate. Like a boil being lanced, and the puss drained away. See alternate image.

Your hate is yours to deal with as is the resentment. Handle this Rzr, you are more than capable as you have shown. Let it go and this will release you in your life and M.

I was asked about my anger by Jim and actually I do not feel that any more. There was a time when I was an angry spitball called screaming banshee, an unpleasant behaviour which did so much damage to me. It had to be released, it had to go, the sense of being right rather than happy had to go. So indeed I let it out of my life, am I irritated and upset sometimes? Oh yes Rzr absolutely but I replaced my anger with my higher power and connection with spirit and love. Now I try to project that as much as I can, still cant do the look of love or listen like a lover, not their yet but I do what I can.

Please try to replace the hate of OM with love for W Rzr, as I know you feel it. And the body can not hold two emotions at once hate will be replaced by the love you feel for W. Tap into the stores of love within you at those moments that hate intrudes and love will win.

Vanilla

Last edited by Vanilla; 01/26/15 05:08 PM.

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose.
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NH115 #2531195 01/26/15 08:19 PM
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Do you mean to tell me this is the first day (so far) that you have not brought up OM to your W? What is wrong with you? Do you want her to move forward, or not? The more you talk about OM, the worse you are making it for both you and W.

Yes, your ego is the problem here. You want to attack someone, and being a man, you want to strike out at the guy who tried to get your woman. Well, OM is gone and apparently had no interest in starting things back up with your W. So, let it go before you have nobody but yourself to blame when she decides she's had enough. Seriously, I cannot stress enough how much damage you are doing by referring to this guy everyday. Just as you are sick & tired of her blaming you for the A, she's just as fed up with your attack mode of OM. It is a merry-go-round defense that nobody wins.

Just maybe, if you would STFU about OM, she would ease off blaming you for some things. It puts both of you on the defense when this stuff happens. You can see it doesn't work, so you need to stop.

Quote:
A lot of her rhetoric right now consists of blaming me for the state of our marriage, and even the A to a certain extent. My knee-jerk reaction is to defend myself, which makes me sound, well, needy. And angry.


It should not be a knee-jerk reaction after all this time of having the same R talks. You should know what she's going to do, and you need to respond differently.

Quote:
I completely (when not in the heat of battle) see where she's coming from. I know, and have never denied, that I helped get our marriage to this vulnerable state. I just draw the line at taking responsibility for the A itself.


Okay then, when she throws blame at your feet, instead of getting angry and blowing up.....tell her it really makes you upset that she feels that way. Tell her that neither of you can go back and undo the things either of you did to get this point. You are sorry for everything you did that made her feel she had to turn to someone other than you. Then ask her what you can do to help both of you heal and get on with making your new MR better.

Whether you want to admit it or not, she turned to OM b/c she wasn't getting what she needed in her MR with you. Did you force her to meet with him and let things go as far as they did? Not at all. But she feels you are to blame for the conditions that made her vulnerable to having an A. What you don't seem to get (with your anger directed toward OM) is that she was vulnerable to any man who said or did just the right thing to fill her EN. B/c her H wasn't doing it. Now that is what you need to face and to admit.

What about men who have sex outside the M b/c their W cut them off and they weren't getting it at home. Their needs were not met and it left them in a vulnerable condition. Is that an excuse for him to go scr@w around outside of the M? I suppose that could be a topic of debate. Does the W need to take part of the responsibility? Well, she probably wouldn't think so. But the question is if she isn't doing her part to fulfill his physical/emotional needs in their R.....then is she responsible for him having sex outside the M? She didn't put a gun to his head and tell him to get another woman. It's still wrong for him to have sex with OW. See what I mean?

Now this may not have been the best comparison to use (probably not) but I'm trying to hurry and it just quickly come to mind. We each are responsible for our actions, but we do affect one another. Nobody affects us like our S does. I am just saying that you can't be Mr. Self-righteous and say you didn't play a part, b/c she's saying you did affect her to the degree of turning to OM. Right or wrong, those are her feelings. You are trying to argue with her feelings.

I don't blame you for not being her scapegoat. She has to own what she did wrong. I am not saying you should relieve her of any responsibility.

Quote:
This is where I get frustrated. I know that DB involves NOT getting into unproductive R talks. I don't want to ignore her; I want to engage with her, but without getting angry or defensive.


Start out by simply not defending yourself and see what happens when you just listen.

Quote:
No, we both needed space to breathe! I want to give her space, but then if I leave her alone too much then I'm ignoring her, she feels disconnected from me, etc. All the usual things. I honestly can't figure out what it is she wants, and it can change several times in a day.


You need to find balance with the space giving. It sounds as if you go to extreme one way or the other. Do you know her love language? You really need to know it b/c that is how you will help her feel connected to you.....and she really wants to feel that now. Whether she has said it in words or not, that's what she means when she expresses her concerns about not having feelings. She wants to feel connected to you, and she's trying to tell you but she doesn't know how. Apparently, you don't how either. You can learn.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
sandi2 #2531280 01/26/15 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted By: sandi2
Do you mean to tell me this is the first day (so far) that you have not brought up OM to your W? What is wrong with you? Do you want her to move forward, or not? The more you talk about OM, the worse you are making it for both you and W.

Yes, your ego is the problem here. You want to attack someone, and being a man, you want to strike out at the guy who tried to get your woman. Well, OM is gone and apparently had no interest in starting things back up with your W. So, let it go before you have nobody but yourself to blame when she decides she's had enough. Seriously, I cannot stress enough how much damage you are doing by referring to this guy everyday. Just as you are sick & tired of her blaming you for the A, she's just as fed up with your attack mode of OM. It is a merry-go-round defense that nobody wins.



Sorry, I wasn't very clear. I go without mentioning OM a lot. It's just that when we do get into discussions, it turns to OM, and I get defensive and hostile towards him. I know I need to stop that. I have had a heck of a time holding my tongue. I know there's a lot of ego involved; I can feel it. I feel the need to put him down because I'm incredulous that my W would see him in a more positive light than she sees me. I know I'll never win any husband awards, but was I really that big of an a-hole?

Quote:

Just maybe, if you would STFU about OM, she would ease off blaming you for some things. It puts both of you on the defense when this stuff happens. You can see it doesn't work, so you need to stop.


Point taken. She's told me this in so many words before. I'm having a heck of a time keeping my anger in check. I was surprised at the amount of anger I had towards her in MC today. Our arguing got so heated that our C had to call a time out.

Quote:

Okay then, when she throws blame at your feet, instead of getting angry and blowing up.....tell her it really makes you upset that she feels that way. Tell her that neither of you can go back and undo the things either of you did to get this point. You are sorry for everything you did that made her feel she had to turn to someone other than you. Then ask her what you can do to help both of you heal and get on with making your new MR better.

Whether you want to admit it or not, she turned to OM b/c she wasn't getting what she needed in her MR with you. Did you force her to meet with him and let things go as far as they did? Not at all. But she feels you are to blame for the conditions that made her vulnerable to having an A. What you don't seem to get (with your anger directed toward OM) is that she was vulnerable to any man who said or did just the right thing to fill her EN. B/c her H wasn't doing it. Now that is what you need to face and to admit.

We each are responsible for our actions, but we do affect one another. Nobody affects us like our S does. I am just saying that you can't be Mr. Self-righteous and say you didn't play a part, b/c she's saying you did affect her to the degree of turning to OM. Right or wrong, those are her feelings. You are trying to argue with her feelings.



I know that I helped set the stage for this. I've never claimed otherwise. I do take responsibility for not meeting her EN. I was distant from her a lot; there were other incidents that caused her to lose trust in me, for good reason. I've fully owned that.

She wasn't meeting mine either. I make no bones about the fact that had the circumstances been different, I would have been explaining my A to her. In the grand scheme of things, their A didn't go nearly as far as it could have, and I give her a lot of credit for stopping it before it did. I think (and this is where ego comes in) that my hatred for OM is because he represents my failure as a husband. That makes me angrier than anything that she actually did.

One thing I have learned out of all this is how much of a control freak I am. Even as I try to let go of any specific outcome, I'm still trying to shove it in the direction I want it to go.

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Start out by simply not defending yourself and see what happens when you just listen.


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You need to find balance with the space giving. It sounds as if you go to extreme one way or the other. Do you know her love language? You really need to know it b/c that is how you will help her feel connected to you.....and she really wants to feel that now. Whether she has said it in words or not, that's what she means when she expresses her concerns about not having feelings. She wants to feel connected to you, and she's trying to tell you but she doesn't know how. Apparently, you don't how either. You can learn.


I've lived with this woman for two decades, and I still don't feel like I know her well enough. Maybe I've been winging it too long, and I need to be more systematic in setting goals.

I need to operate on the assumption that the A is over. I know she still carries too much affection for him, but their contact is minimal. Since he doesn't live here and there's no danger of her sneaking off with him on a whim, that gives me space to try and piece with her.

My goals:

1. Continue GAL. Physical/emotional/mental fitness, work on my career, work on my side business, participate in hobbies, socialize with friends. All those things will help me be happier and more interesting to her.

2. Focus on her love languages. I've never been able to pin down just one, but I would say they're most likely:

Quality time: she likes it when we spend time together

Acts of service: When I'm proactive and take responsibility for things around the house, parenting, etc. she feels more secure. My passivity in this area has been a legitimate criticism IMHO.

3. Listen and keep my ego in check. Listen to her instead of trying to defend myself. When I asks her what I can do to rebuild things between us, all she says is "I don't know", but I'll assume that's her depression talking and continue to ask.

4. Let go of my hatred for OM. I know I need to stop attacking him, but it starts and I spiral. In church yesterday I did pray that OM and his W can heal their marriage. I guess that's a start. Nothing excuses what he did, but I have been told that his W isn't exactly affectionate towards him (I'm going to assume that's the truth). I'm trying to view him as a lost and lonely person too, instead of simply a predator.

Last edited by Rzrback; 01/26/15 11:33 PM.

Ex Rzrback
Me 43 Her 44
D11, D15
T21, M19
BD 9/9/2014
Piecing

Sometimes if you want to see a change for the better, you have to take things into your own hands - Clint Eastwood

NH115 #2531296 01/27/15 12:43 AM
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I am disappointed you did not make a goal to do something about your anger problem. I mean after all, you talk about it so much and whenever backed into a corner, that is your answer.........you just get so angry, the arguments get so heated, you have so much hatred for OM. etc.

It is good you prayed for OM, if it was for his happiness. Sure it wasn't with the thought your own M would be secure if his M would heal? Anyway..........maybe pray for yourself, that God would take the anger out of your heart.

I don't want you to think I am picking this to death, but as much as it has come up......I think it is a bigger issue than you may realize, or admit to yourself. If you don't get control, you are going to lose your W, and you won't have an A or OM to blame it on. You are doing it all by yourself!

Stop using anger for your excuse to act badly. Do something about now.


It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
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