There was a wise poster here named Jayne who said it better than I'd ever seen it said, and so I saved it in my personal archives (change "him" to "her" as needed for one's sitch):
Jayne, on “boundaries”:
Think about boundaries like this:
Boundaries are not about controlling the other person, because boundaries are about drawing "circles" around *you* and determining what you will and won't allow inside that circle.
Your WxH can do whatever he wants OUTSIDE that circle. You are not telling him what to do.
But you will only let into that circle people who treat you with respect.
He's free to go on treating you with disrespect, but you won't know about it because he'll be outside your circle. He's free to go on and draw his own boundaries of no expectations and no responsibilities, outside your circle.
He can do WHATEVER he wants. He's a free person, free to make WHATEVER choices he wants.
BUT SO ARE YOU, and you are free to choose who to allow within your circle.
That's all. Not about trying to control him at all. Tell him he's totally free. He has the WHOLE WORLD, outside your circle, to go and do whatever he wants.
If he's saying you have to let him into your circle no matter what, then THAT is about HIM controlling YOU.
She came back yesterday night and said sorry over and over again. I see the guilt in her eyes. But I feel like she won't stop the contact to OM. I wonder if it will change tho.
She assures me that all this is between me and her..but we all know better.
I'm close to a breakdown this morning and I don't know how to get the energy to continue with my life and show the strength I need to if I want to continue to DB. I guess time will heal and get things a little clearer to me.
I still don't know how to set my own boundaries. I don't know yet what I can accept and what I can not. And I don't want to tell her and it sounding like an ultimatum.
She also basically told me if I tell her family or if I talk to the OM she will divorce me asap. I wonder about that. It is so immature what she's doing and obviously she's afraid to admit what she's done to her family. She will be judged. But at some point I feel like someone else like me needs to tell her that she messed it up and did it the wrong way.
Something I learned is how ever I act, she is mirroring me. If I'm mad, she's mad back, if I'm understandig she is more open. But I also feel like that if I act stable and understanding it's just comforting her to make her feel better about EA and D. But I guess that's a very important part about DBing.
Me 32 (German) Wife 28 T 3yrs M 2yrs Moved to US for W No kids BD 6/2014 In house separation Confirmed EA 1/2015 (ongoing since BD) OM not ready Real D talk started 1/27/15
Just to summarize the situation to make it clear and also state why my hopes are so slim:
- Wife completely convinced we shouldn't have gotten married. We had a purely romantic love, no foundation and lacking connection. - OM at work (successful doctor) - they see each other every week. - She told me she loves him - he is clearly playing along and they even claimed to have an 'unfulfilled complicated relationship' (saw texts) - W knows OM for 6 years, they have been friends and she always had feelings for him (except of the time when I came into her life, for 1-2 years) - W does not want to work on M at all, it's over for her (she was at a point 5 months ago where she tried, but by herself, no outside help, no team work - while I was just very challenged and not clear minded - then she let herself go with the emotions to OM)
Me 32 (German) Wife 28 T 3yrs M 2yrs Moved to US for W No kids BD 6/2014 In house separation Confirmed EA 1/2015 (ongoing since BD) OM not ready Real D talk started 1/27/15
Complex, after you read DB or DR, pick up the book "Boundaries," by Townsend & Townsend. It's widely considered THE definitive book on the subject, and I think it will help you.
btw, what your wife is telling you about talking to family or OM is purely SCRIPT -- they ALL say that. While exposure is against DB teaching, I certainly wouldn't LIE to anyone about what she's doing, and I would also tell her "I have decided that I will no longer lie to cover up your affair," even if you don't end up telling a soul.
Any time she threatens divorce, calmly tell her "Yes, I've heard you, multiple times. Do what you feel you need to do, but please stop talking about it as it's immature and disrespectful and I don't want to hear it."
Just to summarize the situation to make it clear and also state why my hopes are so slim:
- Wife completely convinced we shouldn't have gotten married. We had a purely romantic love, no foundation and lacking connection. - OM at work (successful doctor) - they see each other every week. - She told me she loves him - he is clearly playing along and they even claimed to have an 'unfulfilled complicated relationship' (saw texts) - W knows OM for 6 years, they have been friends and she always had feelings for him (except of the time when I came into her life, for 1-2 years) - W does not want to work on M at all, it's over for her (she was at a point 5 months ago where she tried, but by herself, no outside help, no team work - while I was just very challenged and not clear minded - then she let herself go with the emotions to OM)
Complex, FEELINGS take months to return, up to as much as two or three years to FULLY return. But the DECISION to work on the marriage, unencumbered by any third party (her OM) -- is just that: a DECISION. Your position should be "Look, I understand that our marriage took a long time to get to where it is, but I'm not willing to work at it or even TALK about it as long as you unilaterally decided to bring a third person into it by having an affair. End your contact with this man, and come back and work on our marriage with me and I think you'll find that I am more than willing to work on any and all issues, including my own."
The longer you remain in the current state -- LIMBO -- the more you're condoning her affair, morally and even legally.
Just to summarize the situation to make it clear and also state why my hopes are so slim:
I know the urge to calculate the odds. I do it too. But what you've listed there is not very definitive, nor even impressive by DB standards. What do you think that people who reconciled have gone through? They've been told and have seen much worse than what you describe. Think restraining orders, custody fights, divorce papers signed, living with OM, etc.
You have to keep your cool now, at least on the surface. Of course, you will struggle and we're all encouraging you to process these emotions. But also keep a little perspective. Know also that the human brain is wired to look for the problems, the negative (survival instinct), so what your brain tells you is "realistic" is in fat "pessimistic". Some people are wired more to be pessimistic, it appears, so try keeping it in check if you can.
This is your personal crisis, so it appears huge to you, and rightly so. But I hope that you'll find strength on these boards by seeing that many people have gone through what you're living. Yes, it gets better, but it will likely get worse before. Prepare yourself and believe in tomorrow.
M39 D6 D3 (at S) S 2014-09 D 2016-09
"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
Wise, wise words from Mozza. Do yourself a favor and look up "The Stockdale Paradox." It's a phenomenal life attitude that helps bridge the gap between optimism and yet the brutal reality of your current situation.
Thank you Starsky and Mozza. Best two replies I ever got here. I'm very thankful for your help.
Starsky: I like the first part what you suggested to say. But about saying "leave OM come back to me and work on our marriage" the timing right now would be completely off. She would think I'm nuts. We agreed on separation and I told her I'm not going to be in her way. After all the mistakes I've done she just plainly thinks all I want is her back and I'd do everything to do so. I don't know how to get that out of her head. It'll take time and I guess actions should speak louder than words. I do agree on setting the boundary of no D or whatsoever talking as long as OM is in the picture. It's betwen her and me. Right now she is just completely over it, burying herself in sense of guilt and that all is her mistake.
Another concern of mine that I can't wrap my mind around is that we are only married 2 years, no kids. So opting out seems easier than for some other ppl married 10+ years and children..or am I wrong?
Me 32 (German) Wife 28 T 3yrs M 2yrs Moved to US for W No kids BD 6/2014 In house separation Confirmed EA 1/2015 (ongoing since BD) OM not ready Real D talk started 1/27/15
Another concern of mine that I can't wrap my mind around is that we are only married 2 years, no kids. So opting out seems easier than for some other ppl married 10+ years and children..or am I wrong?
OH, I think it's infinitely easier (or at least simpler?); most of us, if we hadn't had kids, would have probably done things anywhere from a little bit differently to WAY differently. I know I would have.
If I were in your shoes, I'd simply move on, learn to improve my own life, and hope to reconnect with my wife someday IF she "did the work" (went thru the necessary introspection to figure out why she would respond to marital challenges with the destructive and selfish decision to have an affair, and then lie about it). But that's just me.
Thank you Starsky and Mozza. Best two replies I ever got here. I'm very thankful for your help.
Starsky: I like the first part what you suggested to say. But about saying "leave OM come back to me and work on our marriage" the timing right now would be completely off. She would think I'm nuts. We agreed on separation and I told her I'm not going to be in her way.
I know, and there's a reason why I said it should be your "position" and I wasn't suggesting that part of my post as a suggested SCRIPT to you to use right now.
