The awakening of ME Part 2

[AJM]

He knows that you are expecting him to do this or that, react this way or that way. So, yes, when you've gone on w/your life, the pressure was relieved and he wanted to be there and do things w/you. Once he senses you are trying to get closer, yes, he pulls away. It's the distance/pursuer game.

I read that and I'm reminded of conversations with my ex. She felt a huge pressure to apologize and say things to me. She felt the pressure of me wanting her to come back. And the confusion, anger, etc.

It's enough to know that they feel it and live with it constantly in their head. It's not worth it to push that or reinforce it because it will push them further or worse, cause them to come back too early and feel like they "had" to. You'd be living a lie and the crash after that is harder. Much harder.

That said, there's no rules when it comes to MLC. Once you are detached from the outcome and see the bigger picture, it's easier to see that you can't change or "fix" them. To see that it's not about you.

assumes its me and nothing she needs to address

That's fairly accurate

It's like watching a kid learn to ride a bike. You know how to do it. You know what to do. They don't. They need to learn it themselves. In their own time. Even if you can see the end result, you can't hurry that up. Skinned knees and all

AJ

[Matt165]

Hi mleigh,
I just want to say that most of us here want our M's to work. More than anything we've ever wanted in our lives. For so long I believed that my M could be saved if I did enough, changed things, changed myself enough. What I have learned is unless and until our S's want the M to work it is impossible to do alone. My W has actually said she didn't want our M to work. How crazy is that? How far gone does someone have to be to say that, even if all the problems were solved, she still doesn't want our 21 year M to work? This is how crazy these MLCers are. They don't have the ability, when it comes to their R with us at least, to think rationally. They still ask us for things that they have no right to ask for and expect us to care about them but don't give a rat's butt about all the pain and destruction they are causing not only us but so many others including their own kids. To them, they are the center of the universe.

You and I know that D isn't the answer, it hardly ever is. Yet for our MLC S's they have gotten it into their heads that running away is the ONLY answer. They are drowning and just like drowning people do, in their panic they are pulling the person who is trying to save them under with them. There comes a point where you have to let go before they take you down with them. That's not giving up, that's self preservation.

You need to stop thinking about when you were a WAS. That was the past and you can't change that. What matters now is that you are willing to try and your H for whatever reason isn't willing or able. You aren't giving up on your M, you are doing that which is the best and only way for your H to come out of his fog. By getting out of his way you are allowing him to finish his journey (or not) but unless you do get out of his way he will for sure stay stuck. It's not fair to the LBS. It is painful and extremely unfair but it is what it is. You need to think about you and getting your life in order...with or without your H. I know it's hard. It "feels" wrong to just let him go but it's the only way. He needs to find out on his own what life is really like on his own. That it isn't going to change anything he is feeling about himself or his life. There is nothing you can say or do to make this happen any faster or without the work HE must do for himself. Don't let him pull you under with him!

[mleigh4]

Caliguy - thanks for the input. I never thought of it like that, to look at how hard it is for us to do our part, to help understand how hard it must be for them.

AJM - I get it about the pressure. I hate to be pressured and actually have accused my H of doing that so many times with other situations in our life. It has always made me want to do the exact opposite! lol. I will try to keep that in mind.

Matt - It's hard to stop thinking about when I was a WAS. I worry it was a big part of all of this. I guess this could very well have happened anyway, but...... One way it has helped to look back at that time is that it helps me to understand what he may be feeling. The need to withdraw and the need for space. It helps with my patience and compassion.

Thank you all for your support and reminders of what is really going on in the MLC world.

I'm not sure what I was thinking to give H that book to read the chapter about the results of divorce. I certainly do not want to guilt or scare my H into staying married.....That would be pretty pathetic. I guess I wasn't thinking.

Like I said, the last couple of months where the pressure was off, H and I were becoming really good friends again. I felt a genuine love and friendship for him I haven't felt in years. When he was looking for a place in November, and found one, I was totally ok and ready for it. He continued to ask me how I felt about it and I was honest in telling him, I am fine, you do what you think best. And he decided not to go. I was in such a good place... but I think I got too comfortable. I looked at that and our growing relationship as a sign that things were getting better, that we had a chance and things were changing. I wonder if he sensed that....

Then right after Christmas, I got the sense he fudged the truth and was right, we had the phone incident and he got physically aggressive with me for the first time ever, and we started spinning again. The "moving out" comes back up, D comes back up and off we go again.

I am left wondering..... how did we get here?.... things were going so well.... inside of me the scared abandoned girl is saying "please read this chapter on divorce and don't leave me! I yell, I push and threaten, but I don't mean it!" These are my issues that I am working on....

I don't know if the moving out thing is to make me back off or for real. We will see. For whatever reason, I don't feel as "ok" with it right now. I don't know if it's the after effect of things going well or my hormones! But I am not reacting on it. When H brings up that he found a place to look at, I just go with it. I will not bring it up or talk about it unless he comes to me again.

One thing I know for sure is that I want to get back in that zone I was in a couple of months ago. I now know what I need to do to get there and am already on my way.... I walk at lunch.... do my yoga... take my Vitamin B on a daily basis....read a good mushy romance novel... watch funny moves and plan fun stuff with my son.

I know I can do this. Just the difference between where I was at a year ago from now, it just amazes me. Even during the tough times, I can now still function. I can eat, sleep and focus. A huge difference for me. I am getting stronger and stronger and I really have gotten to a place where my sitch doesn't consume me, it doesn't control my day or my attitude. It doesn't define my happiness. I still stumble and even sometimes I fall, but I get right back up again. I learn from mistakes and I think all of that is key. I think I still tend to "understand" too much of this, but we are human, right!?

[CaliGuy]

mleigh .. yeah its amazing when one looks back and realizes how far we have to come ... but yet how far there still is for us to go, and going into a place that is so strange from what we knew or would imagine has some fear associated with it .. atleast for me.
I can relate to that spot where you felt things get better, only for a blow up ... I had the same thing happen just prior to Christmas ... like you .. its propelled me to detach harder and let the MLC'r go ... they need to work the stuff out ... as do we ... seems from what I am realizing in myself I have to figure out how to blend the new me with the old, just as my MLCr will some day have to do the same.
I've read recently on the MLC crisis that they are not even close to be doing the work until 2 years after BD, that hit home for me ... not that I want a time line but I was not aware how very long this thing can go .... I assume in my case it started about 2 years prior to BD, but I also realize things I have done have not helped her come out of the tunnels ... so I may have been prolonging her progress ... we all may be guilty of this, in our defense .. if we didn't make mistakes it would prove we do not love them as we claim I think.
You are doing so well, I can see you getting stronger and more sure of the system and allowing him to go about his journey.

[mleigh4]

At the end of my post - I meant to say I try too hard to "understand" all of this! I am nowhere near understanding anything!! lol

Caliguy - thank you so much for your input. Talking with others who get it and see it help so much to put things in to a different perspective. I am not very good at thinking outside of the box so it helps so much! I don't think my husband is anywhere near looking at himself and we are at 1 1/2 years since BD. I hope the 2 year theory is right! And I too think I have gotten in the way many times, but I am learning

[job]

mleigh,
You might want to go back and re-read the thread on distance/pursuit. Now that you understand a bit more about pressure and the distance/pursuit game, you may pick up some tidbits that you glanced over the first time when you read it.

It truly takes a while to figure out how not to play the distance/pursuit game w/them.

[mleigh4]

I read the distance/pursuit thread last night and yes, it explains our R pretty darn close. Not all things, but enough to see it fits us well. I will continue to look up more information on that.

Getting back into the high PMA mode I so crave! Went for a nice walk yesterday on my lunchbreak. Gotta love California.... 73 in January Then stopped by home to cuddle my creatures (dog and kitty) They always make me feel better. When I got home from work, listened to Let it Go from Frozen real quick (yes, I am a dork, love Disney and for some reason that song inspires me!) Read a little, made dinner for us all, piddled around the house and kept to myself and S.

At dinnertime, ever since we had S I made it a point to all eat together at the dinner table, not in front of the tv. When I moved out and then moved back, we started eating in front of the tv because of the initial awkwardness, and it has continued until now. Last week, I started serving dinner back at the dinner table again. I'm not going to let H's issues create bad habits for us. He can join us or not, and so far he has and seems to enjoy it. In fact, S seems to also.

I don't know if I have mentioned this, but I see H making an effort to connect better with S. It's been happening the last few months and I already am seeing a better R between them. Usually H will sit on the couch to do his work orders for the day, but last night he sat at the table next to S to do them. That was a first.

My PMA is high again and I feel much better focused. Yes, my M is crappy right now... but my M and H do not define me, my life or my happiness. It's a part of it, but does not and will not control it. I have so much to be happy about, so much love in my life, and I am feeling it well.

[mleigh4]

Ok Help! I have been reading up on the distancer/pursuer thing and I really see our R living this dynamic for a long time so I am extra aware now.

H just approached me, said he looked at a place for the 2nd time and took some pics of it tonight. Said I can see them if I want, being that S would stay there sometimes and as his mom I probably want to make sure it's ok, but that he isn't asking for my approval or anything (?) He said it's not the perfect place, but that he likes it because it is month to month instead of a lease.

I just kind of shook my head and said that's ok, it will be hard on S no matter what the place looks like ( may not have been nice to say, I know)

So he said, well, ok, you can look if you want, or not, or we can talk about it, but I thought you were all for this.

I just stayed quiet. I know he is going to corner me again!! This [censored] for S, but good for me. What do I say!!??

[Matt165]

Gotta love love how they say "I thought you were all for this?" like you now somehow agree that what they are doing is perfectly right, no matter how it affects everyone, especially the kids. You can talk about all the negatives but say you agree with one small benefit and they will blow that up to you saying the benefits out weigh the negatives. Typical MLC (and teenager) behavior. The wanting you to look at the pictures and then say he isn't seeking your "approval" is also typical. What would he do if you looked at the pic's and said there was no way you would want your child living there? If he isn't seeking your approval, why bother even taking the pictures or showing them to you?

None of it makes sense unless he is doing exactly what he says he isn't...seeking your approval. This is just part of the crazy thinking process they are going through. It's cruel in a way, the way they push it in your face almost defiantly. Just try and let it go. I think you did the right thing just saying you had no interest in seeing the pictures since your opinion doesn't matter to him anyway. What exactly does he want to talk about? I say just don't let him engage you on the subject. He made it known that he isn't interested in your opinion or approval so there isn't anything to "talk" about. Just my opinion.

[job]

mleigh,
He's not only seeking your approval, but he wants to let you know what type of living arrangements he would have if he rented the place. He wants you to see the photos so that you can rest easy because your son would be visiting there.

BTW, I do understand why you wouldn't want to see the photos. Deep down, I think you may want him to stay and try to work on the relationship w/you. Unfortunately, the discussions about him moving out have taken hold in his mind and he's chosen the "easiest" avenue for his life right now. He's looking for a place and he wants your blessing. They've lost their empathy chip and quite frankly don't see how this type of sharing of photos about a proposed rental property hurts to the core because if he does go, he's breaking up a home, relationship w/you and w/your son. They look at this as an adventure and a place to call their own and they can come and go and not be quizzed about things. The idea of moving out is looking more and more pleasant to him, especially after the last discussion you have about the phone.

The comment he made about that he thought you were all for this is actually addressing the conversations that you had in the past about him moving out. In his mind, he heard you say to find a place and move out. I can understand his comment because it's been discussed a bit.

I'm very sorry that he's still talking of moving...but, I wouldn't say another word. I would sit back and just listen. If he finds a place, wish him well. He really does need the space and time to find himself.