Riding the rollercoaster

[PeterV2]

Yeah, Dawgy, it's hard to believe when they say the A is over. Our imaginations are fertile and play tricks on us. Maybe you should work on a Dear John note with her for her to send to the OM.

My advice is to write a final letter in a way that the victimized spouse would agree to send it. It should begin with a statement of how selfish it was to cause those they loved so much pain, and while marital reconciliation cannot completely repay the offense, it's the right thing to do. A statement should be made about how much the unfaithful spouse cares about his spouse and family, and for their protection, has decided to completely end the relationship with the lover. He or she has promised never to see or communicate with the lover again in life, and asks the lover to respect that promise. Nothing should be said about how much the lover will be missed. After the letter is written, the victimized spouse should read and approve it before it is sent.

OM,
I have made a decision. I want to be with my husband. I no longer want to continue our relationship or keep any secrets from Dawgy. Everything is out in the open. I realize now that I used poor judgment in getting involved in this in the first place and am sorry for that. I plan to get help to understand how I could betray my own values as well as my family.
I am recommitting to Dawgy. Do not contact me again for any reason.
I know this is abrupt but that is the only way. We both knew the risks we were taking. Please respect my decision to no longer have any contact. I will no longer respond to any email, text, calls or other attempts to communicate with me.
W

OM;
I want you to know that out of respect and love for my husband, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk with you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that Dawgy did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay Dawgy for the pain I have caused him, I will do my best to become the wife he’s been missing. I care a great deal for Dawgy and I would not want to do anything to risk his happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.

Sincerely,
W

Just a couple of examples to run by her - see if she'd be willing to send them. Feel free, both of you, to edit them as you see fit.

Just a thought. It may help bring you together.

Good luck.

[u-turn]

This is great stuff Peter - I hope Rzrbck sees this.

[dawgy]

Well people W is still under our roof . Shes showing no signs of leaving and hasnt threatened me in a couple months .When I look back at the cruelty she subjected me to I feel sick to my stomach . Forgiveness isnt looking to easy and as far as forgetting the pain caused . That will never happen .
Interestingly enough though I find my self still sexually attracted to her even though I consider her to be tainted now . Hmmmm , a topic of conversation with my therapist i would say .
Anyway here is my dilema as of today . W has been fairly pleasant and has not really shown any signs of the affair still being alive so maybe its the truth .I want back in our bed . The two of us side by side . There doesnt have to be any touching, any sex , we dont have to even share blankets but i want us to start healing and that is a step that I am adamant about .
Im to the point now if she wont do this I want her to leave . The relationship is garbage now if we cant share our marital bed . Im finish with sleeping alone . I want to see some sort of light at the end of the tunnel. Shes been much nicer and interactive in the last few weeks and now that she knows that I dont care if she leaves shes lost her control over me . Any suggestions ????? Dawgy

[Little]

She's still the woman you fell in love with, Dawgy. That's why you're sexually attracted. She's only "tainted" because she made some poor choices and she hurt you. You can be sexually attracted to someone who has broken your trust, believe it or not. They're not mutually exclusive.

[Maybell]

Dawgy, do you hear how AGGRESSIVE you sound? you're all "She needs to do this MY WAY or get the he!! out!!"

You scare me from here. Especially after the parking lot incident.

What kind of relationship do you actually want with your wife? The kind where you get all overbearing and she complies, or the kind where you meet one another lovingly and share your life together?

[25yearsmlc]

Dear Dawgy,

I'm so sorry for your pain.

I read your WHOLE thread (both of them). (*1 small suggestion-- If you'd fill out the signature block lines so we can more easily recall things like your son's ages, yours, etc. it really helps us keep each situation separate).

Okay here are some observations and questions I have for you. It's a lot to take in but I hope you will b/c heck, I'm writing too much too late!

Dawgy, first off, Your anger is not your friend, though you sure do bring it everywhere.

Your anger is an albatross around your neck; it's the enemy of your m. Unfortunately it is such a companion to you these days, you seem fiercely dedicated to keeping Mr Anger with you at all times.

Thing is, the anger consumes YOU...no one else. I learned that the hard way.

I've said (and seen here) the phrase "holding onto anger, to hurt someone else,

is like lighting Yourself on fire.....to get Smoke in Their eyes..."

Give that^^ some reflection.

You are on fire, a lot. The biggest problem is that you resist efforts to process and RELEASE the anger...as in, let it go. As in, do not go pick it back up. You even get upset at those who fear anger like yours.

Second, You have admitted to zero flaws as a h or father. Seriously...

You have listed ZERO flaws or traits in yourself which you wish to change. Not one.

You seem to have no personal self improvement plan (and that's a first here.) and No 180s and the ONLY FOCUS in your posts that I can pick up,

is your w's behavior and your feelings.

Check it out. It's "W did this and that and I feel so angry/hurt/humilated/mad, sick, etc."

The whole time you have been here, the theme is fairly consistent.


Where's the DBing part to this? I see very little. And that makes me sad b/c I know you are suffering.

yet you are also resisting 90% of the advice you are getting here.

(And btw Dawgy, how do you feel you were as a listener, to your wife?

I mean, is it typical of you to just 'not hear" what people are telling you, when you don't like what they are telling you? Do you pretend they didn't say anything or that it doesn't deserve a response? I'm asking hard questions to get you jump started.

3) You continue to ask questions about what you should SAY or DO, about something that may not happen or which you make happen b/c of an incessant need to try to control things... instead of giving her REAL space which includes you NOT obsessing about her...

you seem to want simple easy "lines" to say or "Actions" to take WHILE the only ones that would really improve your situation , are being ignored.


Please listen to me with this.

When I went to MC's with my h, the first 3 (THREE!!) MC's, ALL told him that he was "being selfish", "acting like a single man", "not placing the family as a priority" in his life.

(Think about the odds of that happening but I swear, over an 18 month period that really happened. H said I had "brainwashed" them...you know, I can barely believe H ever went back to any of them.)

I felt temporarily relieved. At the time, I felt vindicated. After all, I pretty much just got declared "Right" and h was "Wrong"....

I spent almost a year asking "WHY??" and "HOW CAN YOU?"....and h just dug in his heels and got madder at me and fled my presence all the more.

Dawgy, I know what it's like to feel you have wasted a year on this but my first year was NOT very effective b/c I resisted the idea of ME being at fault for blatantly selfish acts on my h's part. Still, I knew I wasn't helping things...and all I kept hearing was about how the changes in ME had to start...not in h, b/c they might not ever happen and it was all up to him in that area.

That made me, ultimately feel MUCH WORSE...b/c then I was simply powerless. I mean, if I'm doing all the things right, and he still wants out, then wth do I do with that "he's wrong" information?

You mean, there's NOTHING I CAN DO??

Not once did any of those 3 MCs ask ME to work on ME...

So I got a DB coach who forced me to dig deep in ME.

And to realize a few simple but profound truths.

Since I really am the ONLY PERSON I can control, the more focus I put on my h,
the less effect I'd have in "our" world.

I really had to dig deep within to look AND FIND some things within me, that were NOT very attractive. Here are just a few...

I kept a scorecard in my head/heart about the ways H had "failed" me or let me down.

I often made sarcastic remarks with a passive aggressive stance, as if I had NOT meant the lousy remark, "just joking", and garbage like that.

I withheld the fullest forms of love I had once given, b/c I somehow believed that if i was "more loving" to him when he'd neglected/mistreated me/us, that he'd take me for granted.

Somehow in my head, I convinced myself that because HE had been selfish by, for instance, working late again, that my welcoming him home with open arms would "reward" him for "Bad behavior"...

So I'd stand in the home with my arms crossed, figuratively...

What a proud angry fool I was.


Why didn't I ever once ask myself "is this cold woman approach, HELPING??"

Why didn't I welcome him home to a warm hearth, happy children and a loving HUG??

Why didn't I give him a home to miss??

Mostly b/c I had a lot of self righteous anger (like you) and pride. There's a line between self respect and false pride. You need to find that line asap,

so that your wounded ego is not the part of you that makes decisions.
I had to let go of my anger and boy, that was SO liberating! Best choice I had made in a decade.

So you know, there were times h worked late, for a "selfish reason." I ask that you trust me on that, for a reason. I tell you this to make my point, which is

So what?

So what if H did a selfish thing?

IF I am not divorcing him for that^^ action, then MY choices are how I can behave myself. I can ignore it , inform him of how I feel about it once, making sure he hears and "gets" me and THEN I drop it,

or I can make us both miserable holding onto that righteousness tightly...

So the question is,

= Do You want to be RIGHT, or happy and loving??

As for having "no clue" why your w was unhappy, you simply must dig deeper
and or, be more honest.

It's a very rare woman who makes NONE of her unmet needs, known. It's a rare woman who never ever complains to or about her husband...yet that's what you claim. In >25 years, she never said a single thing that might mean you could improve, however slightly?

Are you saying that IF SHE were here and you were not, She'd say "Dawgy is a Great husband, partner, lover, friend, companion and father -- I just don't want to be married to him. I want to split my family up."

Short of mental illness/severe depression, I have never seen or heard of a married woman with children, wanting to leave a good strong fulfilling marriage.

There are men who might have an A for reasons that are not emotional. But almost every woman who has an A, has a significant Emotional attachment and that means there was an element of that MISSING in the marriage.

This does not mean you are a jerk. But it does mean you DO HAVE SOME CONTROL over how all this goes.

Work on you and only you. Get out of her sandbox and stay in yours.

Well people W is still under our roof . Shes showing no signs of leaving and hasnt threatened me in a couple months .When I look back at the cruelty she subjected me to I feel sick to my stomach . Forgiveness isnt looking to easy and as far as forgetting the pain caused . That will never happen .

Forgiving her will mean letting go of it, not throwing it in her face whenever you get mad or holding it over her head like the Sword of Damacles.

If you can't do that, then file for divorce now. It'd be the best thing for your son and you and your w, really.

I mean this^^ 100%.

If you are not going to forgive her and drop this, then you should end it now.

Yes, of course this presumes she wants to restore the marriage and ends the A, (among other things). But if you already know you want your anger to be your "new wife," then so be it. Cut everyone's losses.

Please don't stay married to stay miserable.

Div Busting is about saving yourself first, and then sometimes, saving your marriage.

you cannot save ANY marriage if you are not healthy yourself and Dawgy,

I think you know you are not well. You are stuck in crisis mode and you resist real efforts at GAL or looking inward or at least NOT staring at her most of your days.

You need to make some changes, and fast.



Interestingly enough though I find my self still sexually attracted to her even though I consider her to be tainted now . Hmmmm , a topic of conversation with my therapist i would say .
Anyway here is my dilema as of today . W has been fairly pleasant and has not really shown any signs of the affair still being alive so maybe its the truth .I want back in our bed . The two of us side by side . There doesnt have to be any touching, any sex , we dont have to even share blankets but i want us to start healing and that is a step that I am adamant about .

Ouch...
Reading your words there, that is such a turn off to me. You sound uber controlling.

"I want us to start healing and that is a step that I am adamant about.."


Hey, no offense, but who cares what you want? Does SHE want to heal? Has she told you so? Has she said she wants to stay married AND work on the marriage to make it better? What indicates to you that she is interested in what YOU want now?

If she has NOT said anything along those lines, then you are in no position to harp about your needs and wants.

But Dawgy that's part of the problem, You do that a lot. A LOT about how you "won't stand for x" and "cannot tolerate Y!", etc.
It's counter productive. Like stomping your feet and screaming that you "won't stand for any more rain"...

Dawgy, you don't control the weather OR YOUR WIFE...yeah, that is really hard to process and digest when you say it out loud, isn't it?

But the faster you let go of what you cannot control, (and the illusion that you ever could)

the sooner you will focus on what you CAN Control and do something about.

Take the focus off your feelings and Get A Life for real. (I'll post more on GAL later but you need to do MUCH MORE than you are. Trust me on that. Listen to what I and many others here are trying to get you to see.

You Cannot Detach, without GAL. I think GAL comes first, and then you can detach and THEN healing is much faster and easier.

NONE of^^ these things requires your w to be out of the house. You CAN do this with her under the same roof, in some ways more easily b/c she can watch son.


Im to the point now if she wont do this I want her to leave . The relationship is garbage now if we cant share our marital bed . Im finish with sleeping alone .


On one hand, I don't think anyone ought to be forced from their bed.

But here^^, You are just oozing a demanding form of neediness. You say you won't demand sex, but heck, why not?

I mean, you are demanding that she lay next to you.
Really, that's not very different, is it? I mean, you are forcing your company on her...why would she assume your "needs" won't continue to be her responsibility and why would she assume they won't increase?

And the other piece of the neediness is how much you really hate being alone, which is telling. Have you finished reading either of the Div Busting books? IF so, what did you think about them, or have trouble with or love about them? You need to discuss that for more effectiveness here.

And How are your sessions with the IC going?

Do you feel the IC is "Solution based" ? That means, to me, that Rather than some traditional therapy which can consist of rehashing all of your childhood history and then thinking about how you FELT during those times and how you feel NOW,

instead,

Solution based therapy begins to identify behaviors you want or need to change.

Because that is where your focus should be now.
You are the only one who can get yourself onto a path of self improvement and growth.



I want to see some sort of light at the end of the tunnel.

Really? Welcome to a large club of people who don't always get to see that.

Yet we have to trust that there is one and it's an internal one. See, no matter what happened to my m, I came to realize that b/c of the changes I made within me, I had become a happier more loving woman. What a bonus!

So no matter what, I'd be more than alright. For me, that^^ was detachment.

As for what your Wife wants to see, I'd bet-

Like any other WAS,

She won't return to the marriage she left, .....

unless...she believes it can be a better/diferent marriage than before.

Your job is showing her that it can/will be different/better.

And that means change, in YOU. Yes, you must take the first step..and the second step...

and the 420674th step, to work on yourself to help your marriage improve.

Why only you and why so many steps?

Because SHE IS NOT HERE trying to save the marriage; you are.

Shes been much nicer and interactive in the last few weeks and now that she knows that I dont care if she leaves shes lost her control over me . Any suggestions ????? Dawgy

Don't mind read (Which is the part I struck through)--it's counter productive negative thinking, and it detracts from the real work you must begin asap.

Dig a lot deeper. Be brave about it. I know it's not easy to think that you may have played a large part in the pain you are now experiencing. I know!

I can almost guarantee that you did, b/c unless your wife was a serial cheater before now, you have work to do that has gone undone this whole past year.

EMBRACE THAT^^ WORK, b/c it means You are NOT powerless.

You can change things inside the marriage, b/c you can change you.

See the inner work you must do to become the Best Dawgy You can ever become,

as an empowering challenge. Because it really is just that.

[u-turn]

Hey Dawgy - that there ^^^^ is pure platinum if I have ever seen it. Read that out loud a couple dozen times.

I just wanted to jump in and say thank you 25 for your generosity here . You clearly care and spend a lot of time helping others. I'm off with a weather day day today and am lurking today - every time I read one of your posts I am inspired by what you share and what advice you give. thanks!

[PeterV2]

Dawgy, copy 25's advice to Word and print it out. Read it over and over again. She's hit the nail on the head. Whenever you start ranting about W, pull out 25's text and read it. You've been given a great gift here. Please pay heed.

[dawgy]

Heres my signature

[Card29]

dawgy, your posts today sound just like your posts 6 months ago. You NEED to be here and to hear what people like 25yearsmlc are telling you. You're here, so that's a win. But you have not listened to dozens and dozens of excellent posts of advice specifically written for you. 25yrs just gave you the most comprehensive, most accurate response yet that I've seen for you. If you don't soak up and embrace that post, I fear you never will actually get what you need to get out of DB (or anything else).