So this is what this feels like... (first post)

[Sotto]

Hi MVG - Of course there are things you can do if she doesn't honour your boundaries. Throwing your hands up and saying there's nothing you can do - that just sounds like you not wanting to do anything. Because clearly you do have choices and you can exercise them here in response to your W's boundary ignoring.

I think you just need to get to a point of clarity on what your response will be if your W continues to ignore boundaries.

And also, your comment about not wanting to be kicked when you are down. Well, if you lie there like a wounded puppy whimpering, you might be.

I know it's tough, but really think about it. This is where all the talk of 'grow some backbone' gets really important. Your W may not want to be with you right now, but you can earn (or lose) her respect by the actions you take.

[mvg]

There is something I can do, absolutely. I can either a) leave the house or b) just put some headphones on and watch a show or listen to some music. That's what I'm planning to do tonight. It's these first tests that are the hardest. My response will no longer be to respond. If she is talking trash to someone on the phone and I either hear it or walk through the room, I'm just going to ignore it and go about my business. Man that's hard.

I thought that by standing firm and telling her to leave the house to talk to OM that I was showing that I deserve respect. It backfired bc in the end, she still talked to him.

Faith, yea, if she brings him here or takes my boys to see him...yea...I'm sure I'm not going to have anything nice to say.

Today I'm going to speak to my laywer about the list of mediators my W sent to me.

Onward.

[CaliGuy]

Cali,

I have owned it and acknowledged it to her and our therapist that if there are any issues with me, to bring them out and let's work through them.

I would approach this ^^ With validation, "I'm sorry you feel that way, I understand you are frustrated ... I feel that we could work out any issue we have" I did not see where you were in MC .... still going? How long? ... honestly ... I made the mistake of blindly going but WAW was in A with OM at the time so she was not putting in any work .. just going to say she "tried"

She won't point to any of these issues in her decision. She is bent on our "incompatibility" and "not being in love with me since our first date"

Wow ... 12 years later huh? sounds familiar... believe nothing of what she says .. 50% of what she does

I really don't see how there can be any consequences. I can state my case 101 different ways, if she's not going to honor my boundary, there is absolutely nothing I can do.

Maybe time to open up your own bank account, start taking charge of your financials .. contact a L ... get a free consultation ... be PRO-active and not RE-active.

I've done nothing but focus on my kids since they were born. There are reasons for that (S4 was born 10 weeks premature and W and I handled it in very different ways) My kids are the center of my world. I never wanted to go out with friends. I never wanted to GAL...her and the boys were (are) my life.I guess that's one of the reasons I'm here.

I was the same .. .all work and all family ... terrified to lost either. But guess what ... I am here, sure I want my M ... but you can not force the WAW into a R with you... its their choice.
Time for you to work on yourself a bit, no one wants to be with a lump who begs for scraps ... get out .. start a hobby, work out .. go out for a walk/start joggin, then run .... this will be your way for a bit ... not just physically but emotionally too. She lost her respect for you, I have a vibe you may have lost a little of yourself and its time to get that mojo back my friend.

I am "letting" her walk. No problem. I just don't want to be kicked while I'm down.

She can not hurt you if you will not allow it .... read enough around here .. for us guys , we have to silence the hurt little boy and put on the Clint Eastwood mask ... fake it till it feels like it fits naturally. Its a long hard process ... but you have to start with the work on yourself first ... as is .. WAW does not want what is behind door #1 ... its time to change that prize while no one is looking.

[mvg]

Cali,

Really appreciate you chatting with me today, I'm sitting here at work putting on a game face and it's so hard...thank you.

We went to MC three or four times a few years ago, didn't really get anything from it. After BD, I asked W to go back to same therapist for a session to discuss our R...not to save it, just to get everything on the table so we could have any sort of R as co-parents. In the most recent session, she told our therapist that years ago when we went, she had already checked out of the M. That's sad bc we conceived S1 about a year after. W said that was her way of "trying" to fix our "horrible M"

I can't believe that she doesn't mean or feel these things. I'm having a very hard time with this re-writing of history (as seen from her FB post)

I have a L, speaking with her on my lunch break today. W has a L as well and is moving full steam ahead with D.

Just like you, I want my M. Not only for my kids but bc I remember the person I fell in love with and I miss her.

I will never beg for scraps. I did that for the first week or so and I still feel gross from doing it. I've been 100% committed to helping her dissolve this M in a "fair" way.

So tonight, mask goes on my face, Homeland goes on my tablet, headphones go on my ears.

You all rock.

[Sotto]

The rewriting of history is really common. So, you never loved me, but you went ahead, married me, bore my kids and we stayed together for 12 years.....really?!

It hurts, but that is just what she is saying 'right now' - and this is why the advice is to believe nothing that you hear...

[labug]

The best thing you can do right now for the both of you is to let go.

And then do as Cali suggested, find you, cause you have definitely lost that somewhere along the way.Then try to figure out how to have a many faceted life. We all want more than just workerbee/parent.

Back when I was a bit younger I heard a woman say that she and her H put their marriage before the children and I was shocked. As I've matured and learned and had life happen, I've come to see how right she was.

When they're tiny and have nothing but needs they do need to be in the #1 position. They can do nothing for themselves but as they grow and change we tend to keep them in #1 position and let the marriage slide.

We all come here claiming that the marriage is so important but we really didn't treat it that way. At least that's true for most of us. We rail away at the WAS for being selfish and not caring when we often did the same, just in different way but now we think we have the moral high ground cause the WA has walked away.

You've already realized that you didn't put your marriage first which is a big step. Now what can you do to change that? What does a man who puts his marriage first look like?

What are your values as a husband and a father? Figuring that out will help you with the next step, working out the business side of the M. Doing that will give you peace of mind.

Good luck.

[Starsky309]

Hi MVG - Of course there are things you can do if she doesn't honour your boundaries. Throwing your hands up and saying there's nothing you can do - that just sounds like you not wanting to do anything. Because clearly you do have choices and you can exercise them here in response to your W's boundary ignoring.

I think you just need to get to a point of clarity on what your response will be if your W continues to ignore boundaries.

And also, your comment about not wanting to be kicked when you are down. Well, if you lie there like a wounded puppy whimpering, you might be.

I know it's tough, but really think about it. This is where all the talk of 'grow some backbone' gets really important. Your W may not want to be with you right now, but you can earn (or lose) her respect by the actions you take.

This. ^^^^. x 2.

[mvg]

Her reply to the 12-yr thing is that she had hoped at each major life moment, (marriage, 2 kids, house, etc) that the "I'm IN love with you" switch would've turned on. According to her, it never did. Now that we have been talking about our 'forever home' to raise S4 & S1, she claims to have had an epiphany and realized she couldn't continue this long lie any further.

My boys are only 4 and 1. Frankly, I think our marriage should've taken a temporary back seat. Not out of the car, just ride in the back for a while. S1 is still nursing for God's sake. Even with that, just two weeks or so before BD I surprised my wife with a night out in the city...got a babysitter, took her to a new restaurant...we had a blast. I wanted her to know how special she is (was) to me, that I still view her as my best friend, not just a mom. That I love her deeply. She was so happy and appreciative, said so many kind things to me. Two weeks later? She's done. I'm so confused.

If I'm being honest with myself, my wife has never been happy with me. Truly happy. There was always something else for me to do, a better job, bigger house, bigger wedding, etc. and honestly, my feelings and needs have never been considered. Yes, I have lost myself along the way. I see that.

However, I failed to meet her expectations. Regardless if I think they were excessive, unrealistic, whatever. I failed to meet them and that is why I am here. I wasn't enough (85% to use the number she gave me)

I know my values as a husband and a father. I've know them in my core and I spend every minute I am with my children instilling them. S4 is respectful, funny, has the biggest heart I've ever seen and most importantly is kind. S1...well, he just eats all day and yells "BOP!"

Just got off the phone with L...next phone call is to the mediator we decided on.

I want what is best for these boys, they deserve it. Regardless of how I feel about their mom, they will be under the impression that to me, she is a queen.

[TSquared2]

Regardless of how I feel about their mom, they will be under the impression that to me, she is a queen.

Why would you do that?

That's dishonest, and they will see through that someday.

She's a human being, not freaking royalty.

Kick out the pedestal you put her on (I had to do the same).

See her as she IS.

Your can always be respectful, never bad-mouthing her, etc., but "a queen"???

I'd re-think that.

That pedestal probably has something to do with why she wasn't happy with you...

[mvg]

When they are young, I want them to think she's the best thing going. It's dishonest, yes. But it would break my heart if they felt poorly about their mom. I can see her as she is, no problem. But our kids are so young, it worries me. I know that her actions will ultimately paint the picture for them, for better or worse. I never ever want my actions or words to paint her in a negative light.

This is why I wanted to expose this whole thing. I know that if I don't, I will continue to carry the weight of her choices. She is NEVER going to tell anyone that she has a OM. She will never admit to anyone that she is the one putting this in motion. She even told our therapist that she "refuses to wear a scarlet letter and that the OM has nothing to do with her decision." Therapist chuckled.

Why do I care about this? Why is important to me that people know the truth. I don't know. I shouldn't care, I get that. Detach, detach, detach.

I don't want our kids thinking that I participated in this decision. I wanted to work stuff out, she didn't. She wants D...I don't.

Time for lunch.