Devastated Husband; Need Advice

[Dawn70]

Tlee,

I have read your posts and you seem to be making strides quickly. I am not a vet by any stretch of the imagination, but I see some who have been here longer than I are giving you great feedback. I struggle with that detachment from my now XH because he texts or e-mails almost daily. He was the WAS in our situation, but right now, I need him to be away from me to have time to process.

Hang in there and keep posting. The vets around here are AMAZING! My best to you.

[TLEE86]

Pink- thank you so much for that post. Your words seem to have a way of carrying warmth and are really truly from the heart. I sincerely appreciate all the kind words you have said to me the past month. I really am thankful for people like you on this forum that can help keep up a positive attitude.

Dawn- thank you for your feedback. To be honest your post came at an awesome time because I was feeling pretty blue at the time so I appreciate you taking the time to read through my thread. I haven't read through your sitch yet, but I promise I will, especially given that we both seem to be having daily interactions with our W/H and are having difficulty dealing with it.

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Well first off, I did crush my 5miler yesterday, set a new PR of 33:10! And I'm back in GA, at least for the week.

Next, as I've mentioned countless times, I've been feeling pretty blue lately, probably because of the Holidays. There are so many times where I just wanted to call it quits and say i cant do it anymore. Especially when things get rough. Today, I was just cleaning up my email inbox (I had maybe 5,000 unread messages) and funny enough, was able to gain some insight on my own sitch.

I came across thousands of emails between W and I during the first few years we were together. I made everything about her, or about me and her. So much love, laughter and selflessness in our relationship. All I wanted to do was be with her. She gave up so much to be with me and put my happiness above everything else. And it worked, because I did the same.

Then as I was coming across the later emails, for the past 1-1.5 years, it became all about me. I didn't convey the love or laughter anymore. Instead, all I saw was SELFISHNESS. "Hey babe send me my certificates/diplomas so I can upload them and get promoted." "Hey babe send me that cross fit video of my workout yesterday." "Hey, can you record my workout for me later?" And this was constant. Everyday pretty much. I don't have access to our texts, but I'm sure it was the same.

There was no more love in my messages to her...did i love her the same? Yea i did. But i didn't show it.

For the first time today, I took the time to figure out mine and her Love Languages. And I remember maybe 8 months ago, W told me while crying, she didn't even know what my LL was. And I dismissed it. I was thinking...WTF IS A LL?

I am Quality Time and Words of Affirmation. Surprising to me. I thought I would be more Physical Touch but it all makes sense now. I need to spend quality time with my W. UNINTERRUPTED, completely dedicated, focused time with W. Which is why I get so upset when she doesn't return my messages/calls in a timely manner. Because she's not showing "dedication/committment." She would never take her phone out when we were first married while at dinner/home. But then slowly we both did it. (Yes I realize every M probably does this). But I didn't treat her like like I was scared to lose her. Words of Affirmation. Interesting also, because going through these old emails, all she would say to me is how much she loved me and why she loved me. Thats what I needed. And I was a happier person because of it, and in turn treated her much more lovingly.

But enough about me.

My W's LL are Words of Affirmation and Physical Touch. I'm glad I know that now. Words of Affirmation, I need to show her and validate her that she is important. That what she says and does actually matters and I don't dismiss it like I started doing. That she is my equal. Again, which is why validating everything she does is so important because it just shows that I am listening to her. First date, she talked for 5 hours in a restaurant, I don't think I got a word in, but i listened to her and never checked my phone. I stopped doing that. Physical touch, besides sex, my W needs to be coddled and held, not just a kiss good morning or goodbye. Obviously cant do that now, but it still explains why when she hugs me, we hug for minutes at a time when we see each other now.

Anyways, I guess bottom line, i cant even blame my W for being unhappy. I became a completely different person this past year. All she wanted was to spend time with me, to talk to me and all she looked forward to was that when I was deployed. But I came home and then I went through my own "fog," because of work. And when I left this past time, she just became even more unhappy and in her desperation, she left. It took me a long time to screw this up, and now that I am out of the fog, my W is in her own. She stuck by me, so I will stick by her.

I want to text/call her and apologize again, I haven't done that since the very beginning of all this. I want to tell her "hey, remember when you were crying because you're therapist asked you what my Love Language was and you said you couldn't even tell because I was just..gone....well its Words of Affirmation and Quality Time."

I don't think Im actually going to do that, but...still, funny how just cleaning up my inbox can make me realize just how selfish i became.

[HPoirot]

Good introspection TLEE86. These revelations will help you going forward. Your thought to not text her is right on. As you already know... let her initiate that conversation. Then you bring up you discovered this about yourself because "You're thinking about things." Don't tell her it's b/c you want to save your M. Good for you. Keep going.

[TLEE86]

Thanks HP- its just weird when/how these "revelations" come up you know? i had no intention of thinking about my M yesterday, but just cleaning up my emails. Somehow that turned into something very productive!

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Quick side note before my actual post... Remember that serious EX-BF that emailed my W out of the blue, and she told me about it, and I got all angry (didn't express this to her, just on here) because she was texting him again? Well, she texted me again today and told me that she was getting...frustrated? at his lack of respect for her. I guess she said she's been texting him a few times, just casual hey how are you stuff, but he has no idea what is going on between me and her, and he's just flirting it up like crazy and its starting to piss her off because he has no idea whats going on, and he's flirting with a M woman still. So...point is, I'm glad i didn't bring this up to her, sounds like he's digging his own grave. I jokingly offered to take care of it (i was half joking, she knows i'd crush his soul), but she said she'd take care of it. I'm glad she told me about it, idk why she did, but at least it just proves that sometimes STFU works and you just gotta let it play out.

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I am wondering if there is more that I should and need to be doing, or doing something different. I'm looking back at my actions the last 3 months, and wonder if now is the time where I just keep doing what I'm doing and continue the grind, or if theres something that needs to be changed. I feel like I'm in a rut.

- W and I's relationship has significantly improved the past 3 months. We haven't had an argument since...week 2?

- Yes, I complain about communication issues with W, but truth be told, I think I'm doing fairly well here. Seems like its just me wanting things to progress faster than they are. We text everyday, and we talk on the phone sometimes daily, sometimes less, depends on her mood. And what we talk about is just friendly stuff, no R/M talks.

- W has shown remorse twice and 2 weeks ago said she doesn't know if she made the right choice and wonders what she left all this behind for.

- My 180s seem to be working, I need to continue to focus on them because I do slip up sometimes, not bad enough to set me back, but thankfully i post it on here and you guys call me out.

- GAL, this is going fine. I work out everyday, doing very well at work, and am taking care of the dogs. I can post about this, but theres not too much to say?

Honestly, right now this seems more about W then it is about me. I have been reading self-help books, IC, DB Coach, reflecting, looking at me, PRAYING (I have never prayed this much before), but I really feel like this is about my W. (OMG side note, my Golden just farted like 6 times in a row as I'm typing this, the smell is unbearable. She surprised herself and was looking at her own a$$. HAHAHA) Anyways...W is determined to "make it on her own" because she never had that experience to make her own money, and she is trying to "find herself" again and doesn't know what she wants with me and her. Seems like the small changes I make, she has noticed, at least just the few times I've seen her and when we hang out, everything is peachy. Almost like old times.

I guess I wonder...am I just missing out on doing something? is there something else i should be doing or do i just keep up the grind until she hopefully changes her mind?

I feel like she is honest with me, for the most part, (OMG my Golden....please make her stop...another 3 times, i need to break out the gas mask- this is really difficult to be serious about when I cant stop laughing and holding my nose). The only thing I wonder about is her and her roommate. I know there is no PA going on, and Idk about an EA...but i never bring it up because at the end of the day, i cant change that, and unless things are progressing on both fronts for her, with me and him, then theres not much i can do. Is there something else i need to be working on???? My posts just seem to be bitching that things are not moving as fast as they should be...idk if there are any "real issues" like kids schedules, solving arguments, etc etc that i can even bring up since none of it applies??

[Calibri]

Ok. I think you're doing great. You aren't getting spew, your W is talking to you, you're in good shape. Hell, your W is talking to you.

Buuuuuut...........

What I'm seeing is control starting to creep in a bit. Not as obvious as your post a few days ago, but it's there under the surface. It's starting out as impatience but has the potential to blow up. I say these because my eyes have been opened about my need to control things, and I'm starting to see small similarities between the two. I think that might be worth looking at.

Also, what are your goals for the new year? It can be stupid or fun. How are you going to work towards them?

Mine: I'm cutting my hair and probably dying it a new color on Friday. New wardrobe coming in, signed up for a crossfit comp in April and starting tomorrow I start training my ass off for it. I need to work on my snatch, as that's where I'm very weak as well as Kipping. I'm a beast at rowing and hang power cleans, jump roping and one arm kettle bell snatches. I need to start running again so I can not die on the 800 meters in class. A bunch of us are talking about going to regionals to watch, so that'll be fun.

Also, things you can post about that's not bitching about progress or whatnot. What are the books you're reading (self help wise) have you made new discoveries?

While I can understand that you think it's more about your W (I think my sitch is more about my H) what can TL(that's your new nickname until I bust it down to T) but who do you want to be as a man, how are you going to prevent it from being the TL show in the future? Why did you become all about you and your job?

Those are the things that you should be working on. Not just sitting back and waiting for your W to change her mind.

PS, saw you're in GA, you're kind of in my neck of the woods right now, so I wave to you from a state or so away.

[TLEE86]

OMG.....I just had the WORST conversation with W in 3 months....

I should have saw it coming. All the things pointed in the WRONG direction...

- Bottom line, her roommates W fb'd me. in JULY. I didn't get this message until now. Why? Because my W had gone on my FB while I was gone and blocked her. I didn't even know who this person was. So I fb'd her back (first mistake). Then, she proceeded to tell me that W and her H were talking for hours on the phone everyday while I was gone and that he supposedly told her that they are "dating." I then call my W (second mistake) and proceed to talk to her about EVERYTHINGGGGG (3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, infinity mistake).

I started calmly, told W that his W fb'd me and told me how much they were talking and that its just strange how, in June before I left, everything was ok. Then, all of a sudden when my W had her breakdown in July, she started talking to him and then when I come home, she leaves me and goes to stay at his place. I know 100% that she didn't leave me for him, but i know that he had a big part in convincing her that if she was alone and unhappy, she needed to leave. She replied, "if I really left you for him, don't you think i would be in a much happier, less stressed place right now?" And touché, she's got a point. She is NOT happy right now. Quite the opposite

Then it went all downhill. I brought up how she is putting me in an impossible situation right now, and how i am trying to support her in everything she's doing, how i feel like I've been a much better person because of all this, and that I'm living in this house that she picked out and its close to everything that she could possibly want and how its just so perfect..and she says i don't want to know those things, and i said well thats because you just don't want to hear what you are missing out...omg...Tim just STFU...

But I didn't. I even proceeded to ask her do you even wonder if you made the right choice by leaving...(she said yes she's wondered this before)...and of course tonight she says no, not right now but i have to see this choice through...FML just be quiet Tim....

I went on and said do you plan on moving out and getting your own place...and she said yea actually i do...and i started talking about $...and how I'm paying for everything...and she started saying are you threatening me and i said no...

And then yea...45minutes later, I think I just set myself back to square one...I should never have had this conversation at 11pm at night, I should never have fb'd her roommates W back... I should have controlled myself more...

I will say this though..i texted her after and said

"I'm sorry. If we can talk about this more calmly tomorrow, I'd appreciate it. I'm sorry for yelling but its probably a good idea to have this conversation when we are more calm, is that ok with you?"

W: I'm sorry too. I'm just tired and cranky, yes I'll talk to you tomorrow I think thats a good idea too. Plus you basically said I look ugly in pictures now which was rude hah so I know you're cranky. I'll talk to you in a few hours."

I'm going to post what I think I should say in a second, but PLEASEEEE any advice on what i should say in this conversation to her tomorrow...I don't think I effed it up THAT bad...but my god WHY did i even talk to this guys W...THOUGHTS????

[Calibri]

OMG.....I just had the WORST conversation with W in 3 months....

Don't worry, there will be many more to come. Don't mind bitchy mcbitcherson over here - I've had a rough night.

- Bottom line, her roommates W fb'd me. in JULY. I didn't get this message until now. Why? Because my W had gone on my FB while I was gone and blocked her. I didn't even know who this person was. So I fb'd her back (first mistake). Then, she proceeded to tell me that W and her H were talking for hours on the phone everyday while I was gone and that he supposedly told her that they are "dating." I then call my W (second mistake) and proceed to talk to her about EVERYTHINGGGGG (3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, infinity mistake).

Ok, lots to ponder here. A) why is your w blocking people on your FB? B)is this the roommate/OM? C)where is his W in all of this? Is she staying in the apartment with your W and roommate/OM? D) dating. That's interesting.

I started calmly, told W that his W fb'd me and told me how much they were talking and that its just strange how, in June before I left, everything was ok. Then, all of a sudden when my W had her breakdown in July, she started talking to him and then when I come home, she leaves me and goes to stay at his place. I know 100% that she didn't leave me for him, but i know that he had a big part in convincing her that if she was alone and unhappy, she needed to leave. She replied, "if I really left you for him, don't you think i would be in a much happier, less stressed place right now?" And touché, she's got a point. She is NOT happy right now. Quite the opposite

Ehhhhhhh. I'm not going to comment on this one fully yet. I'm going to ponder it.

Then it went all downhill. I brought up how she is putting me in an impossible situation right now, and how i am trying to support her in everything she's doing,

Ohhhhh boy, not the right time for this conversation.

how i feel like I've been a much better person because of all this

Did you say it exactly like that? Because I would take that as "hey I'm a much better person now that you walked out on me - look at what you're missing!!!"

, and that I'm living in this house that she picked out and its close to everything that she could possibly want and how its just so perfect..and she says i don't want to know those things, and i said well thats because you just don't want to hear what you are missing out...omg...Tim just STFU...

I mean, I'ves side way, way worse but that was probably not the route you want to go.

But I didn't. I even proceeded to ask her do you even wonder if you made the right choice by leaving...(she said yes she's wondered this before)...and of course tonight she says no, not right now but i have to see this choice through...FML just be quiet Tim....

Incoming 2x4. What was she supposed to say, yes T, now that you've asked me, I've suddenly seen the light? No more of that, Kay?

I went on and said do you plan on moving out and getting your own place...and she said yea actually i do...and i started talking about $...and how I'm paying for everything...and she started saying are you threatening me and i said no...

So I'm taking you still haven't had the finance conversation with her? What exactly are you paying? You NEED to have the finance conversation with her. Especially since you brought it up and she feels threatened.

And then yea...45minutes later, I think I just set myself back to square one...I should never have had this conversation at 11pm at night, I should never have fb'd her roommates W back... I should have controlled myself more...

You may not be to square one, but you have set yourself back. A good friend of mine told me to never have serious conversations with a spouse after it gets dark. Might be worth thinking.

"I'm sorry. If we can talk about this more calmly tomorrow, I'd appreciate it. I'm sorry for yelling but its probably a good idea to have this conversation when we are more calm, is that ok with you?"

W: I'm sorry too. I'm just tired and cranky, yes I'll talk to you tomorrow I think thats a good idea too. Plus you basically said I look ugly in pictures now which was rude hah so I know you're cranky. I'll talk to you in a few hours."

Did you really insinuate that your W looked ugly in her pictures?

Might I suggest waiting 48 hours to have the convo?

The bigger question is this: if you know W didn't leave you for this dude but suspect their might be an EA, where does this leave you? And if OM's wife got involved, it makes me wonder what's going on. What are you upset about, exactly?

[TLEE86]

Ok, plan to talk to her tomorrow about this. What I think I should say.

1. W, I am sorry for bringing up that conversation that late at night, I know you have to get up early to work. I am also sorry that I yelled and lost control of my emotions a little bit. I did not say you were ugly in your pictures lately, just that you looked tired and stressed. You are beautiful.

2. I'd like if we can be honest with each other. W, it really shocked me when I came home and you told me you wanted to leave. Before I left, we were ok and you yourself said that you had no intentions of leaving...So it was a huge surprise when I came home and you dropped that bomb on me.

3. I recognize my faults in the M and am truly sorry for putting work as a priority. I wish I could take that back, but I cant. You are my #1 priority and I am sorry that I did not communicate that to you, and you thought that the reason I was angry was because of you. Honestly, it had nothing to do with you, I was just tired and stressed from work everyday- I think you know a little bit now what that feels like. Again, I am sorry that I made you feel that way.

4. W, I want us to have an honest conversation about this. I want you to be happy, and I will support you in whatever you decide to do. It is your life and your choice. But I'd like to know what is going on between you and roommate. If this is something you want to pursue, then I will not stand in your way.

5. W, the last thing to really talk about is $. I have always said I will support you, and do not want to see you fail. But you have said you were going to this internship in JAN and now you are not going. The $ I am giving you is for you to move out and get your own place, because that is what you wanted. Do you think this is something you will be doing? If you plan to stay at this guy's apartment, thats your choice. But I am asking you, what do you think is fair as far as financially helping you if you are not moving out?

6. W, i know this is an incredibly stressful time for both of us, and I'd like to continue talking to you. To be honest, I miss it. I hate where our relationship is right now, and I would like to continue building on it.

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Idk if that is completely the wrong conversation to be having...or what...thats just what I'm writing down right now, please any and all thoughts are welcome. Apparently we'll be talking in the next few hours... we have not had a R talk in months...

[Calibri]

I think you need to sit on this for at least 48 hours.

And I think you need to read sandys rules.

And take out the part about she now knows what it feels like to be stressed with work. That just can be construed the wrong way.

Honestly? I think you should address the finance issue in conjunction (maybe) with the OM scenario.


But I still think you should sleep on it and I will look at this again the morning when I haven't had sleeping pills in my system.

Breathe.

[TLEE86]

Ok, lots to ponder here. A) why is your w blocking people on your FB? B)is this the roommate/OM? C)where is his W in all of this? Is she staying in the apartment with your W and roommate/OM? D) dating. That's interesting.

A. I didn't know she did this, I wasn't even home. She's never done this before. I just noticed it today, and apparently she blocked her in July when I was gone.

B. Yes roommate=OM (EA probably, PA No-100% sure)

C. OM's W is separated from him, for a while, their D is final in JAN

D. Dating...I doubt it. Not in July, 99% sure of this one.

So I'm taking you still haven't had the finance conversation with her? What exactly are you paying? You NEED to have the finance conversation with her. Especially since you brought it up and she feels threatened.

No, I haven't. I was seeing what she was going to do about this internship in JAN, but now that she's not going, we have to have this conversation. I am giving her X$ every months so she can actually afford her own place because she doesn't make enough $ in her job. But if she plans on staying at his place, then theres no way I'm giving her $. I know a lot of people if not everyone will say, well thats her choice to figure it all out, if she left, no $ for her.

You may not be to square one, but you have set yourself back. A good friend of mine told me to never have serious conversations with a spouse after it gets dark. Might be worth thinking.

I don't think I'm at square one. I do think I set myself back about a week, at least until this blows over again. Im confident, i think, about that.

Did you really insinuate that your W looked ugly in her pictures?

The bigger question is this: if you know W didn't leave you for this dude but suspect their might be an EA, where does this leave you? And if OM's wife got involved, it makes me wonder what's going on. What are you upset about, exactly?

1. I didn't insinuate that she was ugly in her pictures, every picture she send me I tell her she looks great/beautiful. I just said something along the lines of..I know youre not happy and you're stressed...i could see it in your pictures, hear it in your voice (probably not the best thing to say.... =(

2. I know W did not leave me for this guy. It was not a...IM DONE WITH YOU AND THIS GUYS BETTER! No...not at all. It was more of a...I'm angry, alone, stressed, and turned to "best friend" for help. Where does that leave me...well Im pretty sure there is EA...so it doesn't leave me anywhere. Suck it up and drive on.

3. OM's W is crazy. They've had their own infidelity problems for a long time now. I stopped talking to his W on FB...it just doesn't do any good.

4. What I am upset about? I don't even know. This conversation shouldn't have happened. OM's W FB'd me and i responded because I didn't know who it was...All this does is just make me wonder what is really going on...

My thoughts? W never intended on leaving me for OM. She left because she was alone and unhappy while I was gone. OM was her "best friend" and EA naturally developed from talking on the phone for hours while I was gone (this is a [censored] feeling btw, when Im gone and to learn W has been talking to someone else on the phone) I think W doesn't know what she wants. She misses me and her sometimes but now is torn between seeing through her commitment to "finding herself and making it on her own" and what she had in our M. OM...is a distraction. I don't think there is a future there.