Sorry its been a little bit of time before I replied. Big GAL weekend, pretty much got the house back to normal before the kids come back tomorrow. Its funny, I realize how much comfort I got out of the house the way it was. It was subconscious as I was shopping, but I pretty much got similar things to replace what she took.
So, I read through your posting from yesterday and learned a few things.
1) I can start to see my judgmental thinking as I read your responses. Since you were doing it 1st person, I found myself thinking. WTH; how can you leave your M without even understanding how you feel and how come you can't even tell me what you're feeling right now....then I had the lightbulb go off in my head. I always thought that was me being 'logical' but it really is being judgmental.
2) Your responses helped me realize that I can't even remember when my W would respond back in any way to let me know how she felt or didn't feel. I did get complacent with gaining comfort talking with W about the day, kids, etc. But what I'm talking about is the deep emotional stuff. I felt like I was sharing how I felt, but she wasn't sharing how she felt. Classic WAW responses, but looking back through it, we did have discussions; she just kept most of the emotional stuff to herself.
3) That gets me disappointed and having doubts in being hopeful, especially since she says she had EA's before in our M. This one's been going on for over a year, I guess the other ones were a while ago; I didn't realize them at the time. I knew she was good friends with these people, but that's all that I figured it was. My 'best' friend is a woman and W and I have always been just fine with that friendship, so I didn't see an issue with her being good friends with men. (diatribe starting...)
I guess there was a hint of an EA of my friend to me one time when she was having M troubles. She was (very) drunk and said something to me about how she should have married me, I responded that we were good friends that are very similar people, R takes people that are different to work well. Told her she's got a great H, that cares a lot for her and this time in her M would pass. Well, it did. She actually talked a lot with my W about her M and W helped her through that time. Since I was uncomfortable in the discussion that night, I told my W what our friend said and let my W know what my response was.
When W talked to me about OM and the EA; I validated and reminded her of our friend's comment to me and said that this can happen to most people. My W's response was, "Well yeah, but MCS and friend never took it anywhere" Not the exact quote, but it was weird because it almost seemed like she was trying to be self deprecating on her own actions.
Back on topic....
However, I do look back at the times she said she had EA's and they were in times that we were having stresses, not M but life. I'm wondering if this is systemic and I just didn't see it. W may have felt for a while she couldn't emotionally connect with me to the level she needed me to. Ugh...
4) I understand there is no excuse for waywardness, nor is there any excuse (besides abuse) for a spouse to up and leave the M and furthermore the kids without trying to work things out. However, W has done that; there's nothing I can do about that. I don't blame myself for that. However, 25years said something a bit ago on a thread "A WAS never goes back to the M that they left." That resonated for me, because while I believe (myself) the waywardness caused her to leave w/o working on the M in hopes to capture OM; I've been struggling to identify what I needed to change to show her that our M would be different.
5) Went out to dinner with one of my good friends tonight. Anyway, we were talking about the sitch and he said to me. "I can't believe that W doesn't see the changes in MCS. MCS has done a total 180, not that there was anything wrong with MCS to begin with, but its amazing what MCS has done over the last couple months." He didn't go into specifics, but it actually troubled me a little bit, because I don't feel like I've changed that much and if I did I'm still not quite sure what was wrong with me to begin with. I mean, I'm much more in touch with my religion than I was; but I feel like the same person, values, views, etc. I guess I have re-prioritized my life and the biggest thing is that I'm much more empathetic and talk about my emotions. I don't know, he used the term "180" which got me thinking DB; so it made me be a little introspective
I guess, he was saying in a round about way, "MCS is becoming a man that only a fool would leave" I guess I'll end on that tonight. Still work to be done.
M:36 W:37 T: 15 M:11 S6 D5 BD: 8/10/14 IDLY: 8/12/14 S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids) D Mentioned: 10/15/14 Confronted about OM: 10/15/14 EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13 She filed: 8/15 (not final)
So, I read through your posting from yesterday and learned a few things.
3) That gets me disappointed and having doubts in being hopeful, especially since she says she had EA's before in our M. This one's been going on for over a year, I guess the other ones were a while ago; I didn't realize them at the time.
When W talked to me about OM and the EA; I validated and reminded her of our friend's comment to me and said that this can happen to most people. My W's response was, "Well yeah, but MCS and friend never took it anywhere" Not the exact quote, but it was weird because it almost seemed like she was trying to be self deprecating on her own actions.
MCS, please don't validate an EA or a PA. Poor behaviour and boundary infringements are enforced instead. "W it is inappropriate for you to be engaging in a PA, and if we have issues then we need to be helped with this" wording needs help..... In the same way I STFU on the abusive language and then correct boundary infringement. If H has a valid point and it's put across in a non abusive way then I validate and even apologise. I did that today.
However, I do look back at the times she said she had EA's and they were in times that we were having stresses, not M but life. I'm wondering if this is systemic and I just didn't see it. W may have felt for a while she couldn't emotionally connect with me to the level she needed me to.
EAs are inappropriate at any time! MCS all we can do is create an environment in which it is possible for connection, we can't insist on it!
4) I understand there is no excuse for waywardness, nor is there any excuse (besides abuse) for a spouse to up and leave the M and furthermore the kids without trying to work things out. However, W has done that; there's nothing I can do about that.
agreed
I don't blame myself for that.
It's perfectly good I think to see how we contribute to that and blame isn't helpful. It's all done with, all we can do is deal with today.
However, 25years said something a bit ago on a thread "A WAS never goes back to the M that they left."
I read the same thing, but interpreted it differently. I read it to mean that a WAS would not want to go back to an M in which they were uncomfortable. This is a different interpretation. I saw this as a positive as the LBS would want a different M anyway. However we can ask 25 what he meant.
That resonated for me, because while I believe (myself) the waywardness caused her to leave w/o working on the M in hopes to capture OM; I've been struggling to identify what I needed to change to show her that our M would be different.
I think you just did!
5) Went out to dinner with one of my good friends tonight. Anyway, we were talking about the sitch and he said to me. "I can't believe that W doesn't see the changes in MCS.
She will, just about everyone will tell her. If you can manage the judgement issue and replace that with detachment then that is a real biggie. Trust me it will give you a lot of peace. I have had to learn to deal with my H in this way, not judge that which he does but learn to manage the boundary on it.
"MCS has done a total 180, not that there was anything wrong with MCS to begin with, but its amazing what MCS has done over the last couple months."
This is a wonderful gift of friendship and validation, someone you can ask about previous issues.
He didn't go into specifics, but it actually troubled me a little bit, because I don't feel like I've changed that much and if I did I'm still not quite sure what was wrong with me to begin with.
Frankly if it has changed and the past is unchangeable, let go of it, acknowledge and live in today. Make the insights work for you today. You can always ask.
I mean, I'm much more in touch with my religion than I was; but I feel like the same person, values, views, etc. I guess I have re-prioritized my life and the biggest thing is that I'm much more empathetic and talk about my emotions. I don't know, he used the term "180" which got me thinking DB; so it made me be a little introspective.
yes, MCS from my perspective, vast changes, mainly openness and that sense of humour has developed. MCS is an insightful and thoughtful man. These tools will help MCS be an even better dad.
I guess, he was saying in a round about way, "MCS is becoming a man that only a fool would leave" I guess I'll end on that tonight.
Yes absolutely.
Still work to be done. A lifelong process for every human. thank goodness!
I am glad we are good on this. Peace Vanilla
Last edited by Vanilla; 12/22/1410:53 AM.
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
Yeah, I guess I'm doing okay. I'm not sure if it's because it's close to Xmas, but I find myself being a little more emotional the last day or so. Not horrible, but I see myself with emotional swings that I've not had for a while.
Well, wife dropped off the kids today and for the first time in a while, it seemed like she was in a neutral mood towards me. Before, she avoided me like the plague. We weren't chatting up a storm, but talked a bit about Xmas travel plans and I gave her a few things she left behind. On the way to her car she said "Merry Xmas." I'm feeling good about that, no huge signs but it's the first step to us at least being able to talk to each other.
Last edited by MCS; 12/23/1402:35 AM.
M:36 W:37 T: 15 M:11 S6 D5 BD: 8/10/14 IDLY: 8/12/14 S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids) D Mentioned: 10/15/14 Confronted about OM: 10/15/14 EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13 She filed: 8/15 (not final)
So another day and another non-PMA day.I guess its not that exactly, but its like its hitting me all over again.
I'm finding myself mad at her for just up and leaving. I read other threads here and see that my W gave me no clues, in fact I think she covered up and acted like this was all okay. Case in point was my father's day present, which was 2 months before BD and 1 month before the 'final' OM rendezvous. She got me a canoe. Actually, she said it was more of a family present since we could all go out together and spend the days together. Then there was our trip to WDW in June, great time with the family. Then there was the date night we were supposed to go on the weekend after BD. A concert we had been planning to go to for months. Even the night of BD, we were hanging out in the hot tub, life was good....kids were in bed, we were just talking, it was a nice night. I even commented on how good our lives seemed to be at the time. She said nothing...until later that night when she said she was checking out of the marriage. I just look back and it feels like my W tried to cover these things up with OM, her dissatisfaction of her M, ugh, it just is getting me mad.
I think this may be a response to my wife being neutral about me yesterday. I guess it was easier to think the alien had abducted her, because it was not the person I knew at all. Now that I saw 1 time that she was somewhat normal, I'm backsliding....or it could just be the holidays...or the fact she finally took her stuff....IDK, but it stinks
Family is coming into town tonight and tomorrow, so hopefully that will be enough distraction to get me back on track...
M:36 W:37 T: 15 M:11 S6 D5 BD: 8/10/14 IDLY: 8/12/14 S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids) D Mentioned: 10/15/14 Confronted about OM: 10/15/14 EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13 She filed: 8/15 (not final)
Just read through your thread. Makes me feel I'm off well I can't imagine this happening after so many years. Something I read in an article yesterday that helped me a lot: The problem a lot of us have is we don't take martial leadership. It starts with inducing communication in your marriage. There's so many people out there that do not communicate in their marriage. Maybe it's a character thing. But we should share our feelings with our spouse, good or bad. And not wait with it. That is our responsibility, that's what we promised each other. If we fail doing that it can only go downhill. It's a connection we need. Honesty trust and respect! If the spouse isn't doing this we have to take responsibility and be in charge.(Women like that anyway I guess). we have to be strong, in charge but nice and not cater, beg, cry. So much easier said than done.
Hope you have a nice Christmas time. It's probable the worst time of the year for us be strong, enjoy the people that love you and the ones you love, think positive, eat well
Last edited by Complex; 12/23/1411:26 PM.
Me 32 (German) Wife 28 T 3yrs M 2yrs Moved to US for W No kids BD 6/2014 In house separation Confirmed EA 1/2015 (ongoing since BD) OM not ready Real D talk started 1/27/15
It you read my sitch in the last 24 hours you probably put me in the category of the people who were warned, with good reasons. Yet, my W was also giving me positive signals such as a family trip to see friends out of town, taking couple and family pictures, going on two dates, etc., this less than two weeks before BD. The positive signals are just business as usual for them because they are not ready to act or speak up. It's their way of keeping control, perhaps because they may change their mind. It seems normal to me.
I wouldn't be surprised if your reaction comes from her warming up a little. Sandi2 just wrote to someone else that LBS quickly turn into WAS when their spouse comes back too fast, because they haven't processed the situation. I know I still feel upset as soon as I imagine my W attempting a return of some sort. It takes time for us, not just for them. It's a tough situation and it can't be done too quick. Let's hang in there!
M39 D6 D3 (at S) S 2014-09 D 2016-09
"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
MCS and Vanilla, thank you for the back and forth! I hadn't checked in on this thread for a few days and just caught up. Excellent stuff in here that I needed to see.
Me: 39 W: 46 D: 7.5 S: 5 SD: 16 SS: 12 T: 2 (06/2012) M: 2 (12/2012) Separation 09/2014. No talks of D yet. No communication since 10/3/2014
I can't imagine this happening after so many years.