WAW Dating - Oh noes!!..

[LoveMyW]

Link to old thread here:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2510394&page=1


Well it's been a while since an update, and due to a change in conditions, I am thinking it deserves a new thread!!..

So, I find out last night that WAW has started dating.. Although I got a bit cut with the knowledge of this, I actually found out that I am a bit more detached than I thought I was.. W and I had a chat about the situation later in the evening and I found that I didn't yell, beg, cry or even try to reason.. The only thing I really said that wasn't DB was "WTF are you doing with someone like him??"..

It was my own smart butted comment that actually bought out that W is dating/seeing someone as I mentioned that I saw a person that she recently (3 weeks ago) added on Facebook was in the area that I spotted whilst on my way to work (he lives on the other side of town).. I jokingly said "did he stay at your place last night", and the answer was yes from her unfortunately..

She said that she has been "BF-GF" with this person for a week, after 2 dates in the last 3 weeks.. I have no reason to believe otherwise.. It screams rebound R as he is the first person to pay any real attention to W in a dating respect (weird to me as she is very good looking overall), is not the type of person she usually goes for, and apart from a job has nothing going for him (seriously, not just my opinion)..

Probably against DB principals here, but I did a bit of detective work in the last 24 hours to see what he is like, as by being at her place, he is around my kids.. Well what I found out wasn't real crash hot..

3 kids to 3 different women, meth user, wannabe cage fighter, 4 restraining orders from ex's.. The list goes on.. Of course he is giving her the bleeding heart stories, and I have not let anything on of what I know.. Like I said, I know it is against DB principals, but I have the means and didn't even really have to ask the question..


So what it's really boiling down to here is how do I play this??.. Do I tell W what I know (and yes, proof has been shown), or let her find out for herself??.. Also, how do I now handle what I am doing regarding R/M??.. I have told W that I am currently re-assessing our friendship due to this, and that I am also re-assessing our financial obligations to each other..

She seemed a bit "taken aback" by what I said, but understood.. This chat happened today after I dropped off the kids after picking them up from school (I generally do on any Friday unless I do overtime at work as I am finished early enough and it's pretty much on my way home)..

I want to let this new R of hers run it's course without me butting in, as like I mentioned, it screams rebound.. The only thing I have done is set a couple of boundaries as best I can that we are S and living separately..

My first and foremost boundary was that he was not to be there when I am there.. I said to her that I won't cause any trouble, but I have no intent to talk to him, or be friendly.. That doesn't even have anything to do with their "R".. It's just the fact that he is not the sort of person I would give the time of day to even if this wasn't happening..

The only other boundary I set was that I would have no hesitation in action if he hurts the kids or her.. I mentioned that at the end of the day, she is still my W until the divorce papers are signed, and the kids are always mine.. Please don't take this comment the wrong way.. W first met me when I was working a previous job (bodyguard/security), and knows that I will not stand for that..

Funny enough, when I mentioned that she was still my W, she agreed this time.. Generally the answer has been "but we are separated"..

So how do I handle my sitch now??.. W wants to still have our closeness that we have as co-parents/friends, and is a bit worried about losing that from he reaction to my previous comment, but I am on the lookout for the fork for eating that cake!!.. Thing is, the communication lines are good, so I don't want to go dark (but will go back to LC) and judging by other sitch's I'm in a good place there..

Any advice to steer me on the path I need to be now would be greatly appreciated..

[LoveMyW]

Oh, just to add, whilst talking to W, it was mentioned how the kids go back to her place after being with me that they seem a little "sullen", and asked if I pressure them for any info, or say anything to them about R/M.. I said no (which is the truth), but I mentioned to her that they say to me how much they want us together.. I have read elsewhere on here that kids don't say much in that respect to WAS, but will to LBS..

I don't push the point with them as they aren't pawns.. I don't want to give them false hope or shootdown either way, so I just answer what they have to say as middle line as I can..

Anyway, today when me and W were talking, she mentioned how it is meant to be a 29 degree day on Sunday where we are (warm for us) and that I should take the kids to the beach whilst I have them whilst she xmas shops (my weekend off, but I have them on Sundays nights every week)..

FTW, my eldest boy pipes up "You should come with dad and us too mum".. Not a real big thing, but it was just the timing of the comment (he hadn't heard what we were talking about beforehand).. The look on her face was priceless, and I couldn't help but let out an "I told you"!!..

[jp787]

Hi LMW

When you are focusing on you W you are wasting energy and pushing her away.

I understand the pull to know what she is doing, who with and all of that. I do understand. That said everything you do to know, find out, will not only waste your energy, but it will hurt you deeply. It will alter your ability to move forward and fu@k with you.

There is nothing you can do about it that would not make it worse. Find a way to change your focus, it will consume you.
If you told your W about her friend it would fall not on deaf ears, yet the only thing she would hear would be you are monitoring her.
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What do you want to change about you? Why?

[NH115]

3 kids to 3 different women, meth user, wannabe cage fighter, 4 restraining orders from ex's.. The list goes on.. Of course he is giving her the bleeding heart stories, and I have not let anything on of what I know.. Like I said, I know it is against DB principals, but I have the means and didn't even really have to ask the question..

What I haven't read in your post is what are you doing to protect your children? If my W was dating a meth user with multiple restraining orders, I would be more than a little concerned about my kids' safety.

More than one person has gotten hooked on meth as a result of dating a user.

[LoveMyW]

Hi LMW

When you are focusing on you W you are wasting energy and pushing her away.

I understand the pull to know what she is doing, who with and all of that. I do understand. That said everything you do to know, find out, will not only waste your energy, but it will hurt you deeply. It will alter your ability to move forward and fu@k with you.

There is nothing you can do about it that would not make it worse. Find a way to change your focus, it will consume you.
If you told your W about her friend it would fall not on deaf ears, yet the only thing she would hear would be you are monitoring her.
-------------------------------------------------------------
What do you want to change about you? Why?

JP, I agree fully.. TBH, after the info drop, I have noticed how strong my detachment is getting.. At this point I really don't care.. Seriously.. I am sitting back just going to let this little production play out.. I have set the boundaries that I feel I can in my situation, and it is up to her to keep her end.. The future will only tell if she does..

I did a bit of background on this person as it was almost like shooting fish in a barrel to find out.. Sometimes it is a curse to know the type of people I do..


[quote=Rzrback

What I haven't read in your post is what are you doing to protect your children? If my W was dating a meth user with multiple restraining orders, I would be more than a little concerned about my kids' safety.

More than one person has gotten hooked on meth as a result of dating a user.[/quote]

Rzrback, until the time I find out for myself that this is 100% true, I am outwardly not going to take any action as I will look like a fool if untrue.. I know W well enough to know that she will not stand for any using..

[NH115]

Rzrback, until the time I find out for myself that this is 100% true, I am outwardly not going to take any action as I will look like a fool if untrue.. I know W well enough to know that she will not stand for any using..

Ah. I assumed from your post that you had incontrovertible proof. I agree you don't need to go that route unless you're very sure of your evidence.

There's a lot of strange things going on in a WAS mind; don't assume that you know her any more. Keep your eyes open.

[jp787]

LMW,
How are you?

[LoveMyW]

Thanks for checking in on me jp.. I'm doing alright considering.. My time passed already here has helped me deal with it a little better than I would have thought, but I'm still a bit cut..

Time for a bit of an update on the last few days for you all..

Since hearing the news, I have gone back to basically NC with W (even after this, I'm still willing to call her W, and really, I'm still willing to fight), and although it has tried me a few times, I've let her initiate contact at all times and replied/let the chat on MY terms..

I've done this to help myself detach further and soften the blow, with the 1% hope that W will see that she misses me and he isn't all he is cracked up to be.. It has also been good to stop me from saying something that may bite me in the backside later!!..

The funniest thing, I can see EXACTLY what game out of the pickup artist manual OM (technically) is playing, but it is no point saying anything to W, as that only makes me look bad and will no doubt inflame any situation..

Anyway, 2 days of NC, W contacts me regarding a financial matter (I waited a little while to return the msg).. I kept it to the point, didn't reply immediately, like a neighbour style and short.. Without getting in to details of the financial matter, I mentioned to her that I will get it sorted when I get back to my place as I was out and busy (I was at a kid family members birthday so no lies there!!).. She seemed a little miffed that I wasn't chatting as such, but just taking care of business..

After that, I went back to NC.. I have been speaking to the kids on facetime on their ipods so They haven't missed talking to me!!.. Fast forward to today and she messaged me again regarding another detail about the same matter.. She seemed a bit P'd off by this chat too with the "neighbour friendly" talking.. What do you all take from this??..


W: Hey LMW, Did you get the transfer done??..

Me: Hi W, Yes I did..

W: Ok thank you..

M: That's fine.. I'm a bit busy at the moment (was at work), but i'll talk to you more (about xmas gifts, last conversation before NC) when I pick up S6+9 tomorrow..

W: Right.. Whats up with you, or what is your problem??.. I won't worry about calling you later then about it then (never had a plan to beforehand)..

M: Nothing.. I'm just flat out at work.. I'll have a chat to you tomorrow about it..

W: Fine, talk then..

M: No worries.. Have a good rest of your day.. Tell the boys I love and miss them..

W: Ok, I will tell them.. XX


Now, the getting upset/angered is probably a control thing (and she feels like she is losing it), well from what I've seen here anyway.. Someone can explain further if they wish..

The XX at the end is the bit that gets me.. It's never happened since BD, so why now??.. She knew EXACTLY who she was messaging so that can't be to blame.. A slip up, or real meaning??.. I'm not buying in to it either way.. It's just plain weird!!..

Anyway, if anyone would like to chime in, feel free!!..

[bravo61]

I would say it means absolutely nothing to her. My XW slipped up a couple of times & called me Baby and tells the kids she loves me when they flat out ask her. Do not mention it to her, acknowledge it, or focus on it at all. That is for your sanity.

[jp787]

Don't read into any one thing either good or bad, it will just mess with your head.

Comments or gestures may be made from habit. It's better to just not read into small things.

[LoveMyW]

I would say it means absolutely nothing to her. My XW slipped up a couple of times & called me Baby and tells the kids she loves me when they flat out ask her. Do not mention it to her, acknowledge it, or focus on it at all. That is for your sanity.

You are probably on to something there Bravo.. I don't intend to say anything about it, nor am I focusing on it.. It just took me by surprise that 4 months down the track it happens now..

Don't read into any one thing either good or bad, it will just mess with your head.

Comments or gestures may be made from habit. It's better to just not read into small things.

Too true JP.. I don't intend to as I have learnt better from here!!..


W might be having a bit of a reality check at the moment I feel.. I knocked off work today, and am commencing 2.5 weeks holidays, and we agreed that I would take the kids for the bulk of it (well before new BF was in the picture).. Well I met her at MIL/FIL's and had a coffee, then went to hers to pick up the kids required goods, and we were going through a few of the finer details RE: xmas etc..

Our plan has always been that I have them Xmas eve, then I go to her place for Xmas morning, then to MIL/FIL for lunch.. The plans changed slightly as my family is doing the Xmas thing on Xmas eve, and I was surprised when she said she would come (she was invited as there are no hard feelings from either of our families)..

Anyway, it changed from me having them all Xmas eve, to doing my families side of things and then myself and W taking the kids to look at Xmas lights together, then stay at her place that night.. No biggy to me as I agree with the reasoning behind it (all presents are at hers and we all know what kids are like Xmas morning!!)..

The reality check kicked in when I said I would be taking the kids away to one of our favourite camping areas with a couple of my family members.. She has been offered to go by them, and to my shock, once again agreed to go even if it is only for a day trip (for her anyway, she is working), but wants to stay overnight..

She then mentioned about her having the kids Xmas night, and then half of boxing day "as they will have new toys to play with" before they go camping.. Ok, true I suppose, but a slight change of plans (I was supposed to be picking them up first thing boxing day)..

The real kicker was when she realised they will be gone for almost a week before she see's them again.. You could almost see the cogs drop in to place through her eyes!!.. She started saying she would like to call them each day (when I have them for a 3 day weekend, the do Snapchats not calls) and almost cried when I pulled out her driveway..

I could take that as shared custody not being the game she thought.. She is also mentioning how it is getting a bit harder for her financially, but stopped short of asking me for help.. I did mention to her that I am sorry she finds herself in that position, but am not exactly doing it easy either, and it is something that needs to be dealt with on our own accord..


What gets me is wanting to spend Xmas eve with my family (they still class her as family too), and then camping with me/us/my family the day after..

I could look at this 3 ways.. Either she is being amicable (but excited about it all), wanting to spend more time with the kids (no problems there), or she is realising things aren't all they are cracked up to be with the new BF..

I'm not taking sides on any thought, but personally I think it is headway in some description.. All I know is that if I was in the BF situation, I wouldn't like that fact too much so let it play out!!..

[jp787]

No doubt the holidays are more emotional.

Please try to not put all of your focus on her and try to back away from analyzing everything so much.

What is something you will do just for you over the next few weeks?

[Card29]

LMW, stick with jp's advice here. You simply can't accurately mind read a WAW (XX at the end of a text, getting upset about kids going away for a few days), and especially a wayward one. She probably doesn't even know how she's going to feel 1 minute from now.

Also, get even more detached from that R she's in. If he's the guy you think he is, she will eventually hit a wall with him. But I think this sitch is unique in that you probably need to verify it is him, for your kid's safety. I don't even know what you could do at that point, but I would start with confirming that.

[LoveMyW]

No doubt the holidays are more emotional.

Please try to not put all of your focus on her and try to back away from analyzing everything so much.

What is something you will do just for you over the next few weeks?

My focus isn't all on her JP, and I'm trying not to analyse, but it's more of a "why now" than "is it hope"??..

As for something I am going to do just for me, it's hard to say.. I'll be GAL'ing it up with the kids over the next couple of weeks, then I'm back in to work and will be getting in to some fitness training with BIL.. As for the rest of it, I'm going to have to play it by ear as my cash situation isn't going to be the best with all the bills I have coming in, and almost all activities where I live cost money..

LMW, stick with jp's advice here. You simply can't accurately mind read a WAW (XX at the end of a text, getting upset about kids going away for a few days), and especially a wayward one. She probably doesn't even know how she's going to feel 1 minute from now.

Also, get even more detached from that R she's in. If he's the guy you think he is, she will eventually hit a wall with him. But I think this sitch is unique in that you probably need to verify it is him, for your kid's safety. I don't even know what you could do at that point, but I would start with confirming that.

I'm hearing you Card.. I'm learning that too!!..

I'm pretty detached from her R, but know I could be further.. That is something I have to work on..

The only thing I have to get physical proof of is the meth/ice usage, but my source is pretty accurate.. Everything else is proven 100%..

[LoveMyW]

So for a bit of GAL with the kids, I took them fishing to a local spot for a few hours.. No bites, but I love the bonding/quiet time!!..

Anyway, a photographer from the local newspaper approached us and wanted to take a pic of us for Mondays paper.. I asked what it was for and he said "Our special feature on families doing things together for xmas".. I did raise a little smirk at that one, but agreed to the pic and let the PMA shine through!!..

I suppose I can look at it in one way.. There is no better way to show GAL (even if it is with the kids) than having it printed in the paper for all to see!!..

W doesn't know yet, and I'm not going to say anything until it is printed, but I have no doubts the kids will if they speak to her beforehand..

[LoveMyW]

It's funny how the emotions can kick in (especially at this time of year).. I took the kids to get Santa photos done at a local store where he was appearing.. I had no issue with that..

Whilst waiting in line (it was roughly a 20 min wait) I saw a young child roughly 1yo getting their photo done a bit before us.. In my head flooded back memories of when myself and W took our eldest for his first Santa pic when he was roughly the same age.. To top that off, they had Bruno Mars - When I Was Your Man playing on the stereo!!..

To top that off, I bumped in to a family member of hers who is still a good friend of mine who started to say about how good me and W were together, how she is making a huge mistake, and how he is p!ssed with what she has done..

Needless to say, my PMA took a dent that will buff out and I was standing there trying to fight back tears, but the eyes did well up..

Screw you brain and memories haha!!..

[LoveMyW]

W contacted me not long after my last post to discuss some last minute presents that were purchased for the boys as "Santa" gifts.. Conversation was cordial and friendly..

I asked if she was going to call the boys later to speak to them as we were going to a carol's sing-a-long tonight, and if we were there she could call after, or a bit before.. I said "whatever works in with what you are doing"..

I wanted to extended an invitation to her to join us if she wasn't up to anything else, but I did think better of it until I got some further advice..

Would this be seen as pursuing or would she likely see it for what it is, which is singing xmas songs with the boys??..

[okjpc]

Christmas is a b*tch. I have not been around here long, so take my advice for what it is, but re: caroling, you told her where you were going and invited her to call based on her plans. I think that's good enough. Let her ask you if she can come. If she doesn't, I'm sure the thought of you taking the kids to do caroling would impress her and hopefully, make her see what she's missing.

[LoveMyW]

Christmas is a b*tch. I have not been around here long, so take my advice for what it is, but re: caroling, you told her where you were going and invited her to call based on her plans. I think that's good enough. Let her ask you if she can come. If she doesn't, I'm sure the thought of you taking the kids to do caroling would impress her and hopefully, make her see what she's missing.

That was my thought OK, and it is nice to get that reinforced..

Your last sentence hit home a little bit.. Although I never intended it like that (more of a GAL activity than anything else), you have a point.. Perhaps she will be impressed.. Perhaps she may see what she is missing..

Either way and whatever happens, I'm taking the boys and we are going to sing up a storm!!..

[LoveMyW]

A great night was had a Xmas carols by myself and the boys.. W didn't end up coming, but I had no expectations there either.. Lots of GAL activities over the last couple of days with them, and it sure is helping with the holiday hurt!!..

I am keeping to LC well, and not initiating any contact with W except for sending her a link today to a photo of me and the kids that was on the local newspapers website.. No reply to that message (for the last 2 hours anyway), and to be honest, I'm not expecting one..


On a bit of a rant in this part, but I've got to say I'm starting to get sick of everyone (family from both sides and friends) telling me that "she is making a huge mistake" and "no one ever saw us splitting up" or other comments along those lines.. I know in the 37 rules it is said not to get family involved etc, but instead of all these people telling me this, why the he!! don't they say that directly to her??..

A bit vindictive here, and possibly rude, but I can't wait for the day that the new BF shows his real colours to her.. I don't wish her any harm, but what does it take to show the grass isn't greener??.. Am I wrong for getting thoughts in my head that I would love to see their R (if you can really call it that after 2-3 weeks) crash and burn??..

The more I look at others sitch's here and elsewhere, the more I see that NOTHING that went on between us isn't fixable.. W just needs to see that instead of chasing the end of the rainbow..

/end rant

[jim0987]

Glad you enjoyed the caroling.

Its not wrong to think that about their relationship and in a lot of ways the sooner its over the better, however depending what place you wife is in, if its over too soon she might not be ready to give you another chance and so would look for someone else.

Its not a pleasant thing to do but think long term and ask yourself what is the SECOND best outcome from all of your situation. See what you feel toward the BF then.

I'm confident everything is fixable if you're both willing

[LoveMyW]

Glad you enjoyed the caroling.

Its not wrong to think that about their relationship and in a lot of ways the sooner its over the better, however depending what place you wife is in, if its over too soon she might not be ready to give you another chance and so would look for someone else.

Its not a pleasant thing to do but think long term and ask yourself what is the SECOND best outcome from all of your situation. See what you feel toward the BF then.

I'm confident everything is fixable if you're both willing

I'd like it to be over soon too Jim!!.. Although I want to see W happy, I honestly don't want her to in this way and it's not hard for all and sundry to see the fog/lust/infatuation will bring her unstuck..

I suppose it's a common thing that WAS that get in to these relationships almost always "downgrade" from their H/W when they start with another person.. In this case, it is textbook..

To answer your question, I feel I'm at the second best outcome right now.. An awesome relationship with my kids, and amicability for their sake with her..

Knowing what I know about BF (all bar 1 claim confirmed), I can't see myself changing my thought towards the POS.. If he was a better person than myself then I would consider an amicability there at some stage in the future, but as it stands right now I will not accept it in any way with him as looking at level headed, he isn't the type of person I would hang around even if all this wasn't happening, so I am not making time for him..

That's the thing, she needs to see it all for what it is and become willing.. I know I can't change/influence that, but we can all hope..

[LoveMyW]

Just journaling here..

Took S6+9 to a xmas get together with my side of the family.. Had a great afternoon with good food and company etc.. W was invited and would have been accepted in with open arms, but due to some last minute shopping that needed doing she couldn't make it.. At first thought I was thinking it was to catch up with new BF, but no, she really did shopping!!..

Went around looking at xmas lights when it got dark and met W around the halfway mark and she took over the light hunt as she has them tonight.. I will be at W's residence in the morning for Xmas stuff with the kids..

I feel like I am detaching more and more, and it feels good.. I'm still wanting to fight the fight, but now I realise what is said right from the word "go" about detaching.. I'm not saying I'm not all the way there yet, but I can feel I'm on the path.. LC is also helping greatly..

One thing I have noticed with W is that there is a totally different attitude from her when she is around others (her friends etc) whilst talking to me as there is when we are talking ourselves.. I have an idea as to why, but I'm probably well off the mark, and another persons idea may be more fitting..

I saw a great quote today for anyone thinking of throwing in the towel.. It goes:

"Giving up on a goal because of a setback is like slashing your other 3 tyres because you got one flat"..

We all have our goals so this rings true for all of us.. Anyway, Merry Xmas to all.. I wish everyone all the best wishes for the season.. Stay safe and stay happy!!..

[LoveMyW]

Xmas morning went really good today.. Went around to W's place first thing for breakfast and present opening/playing/constructing with the boys.. I showed a lot of PMA even though I was cut inside, but as they say "act as-if"!!..

I spent a good 3 hours there, and to be fair it was ALMOST like any other Xmas morning that we have had.. Laughing, joking and generally mucking around with the kids.. I got an invite to the I/L's for lunch, and we all made the trek over there for a great family get together/feed..

There was nothing even close to an R talk happening with W even though I felt like laying it all on the table (again!!).. I am finally starting to be able to fight myself and bite my tongue.. There was no awkwardness from anyone at I/L's even though it my first big step out with W since BD..

I found that great on all accounts as obviously if I can stand in a house of 15-20 of her family members, and they all still openly accept me not only do I feel better, but I am sure W would see the positive aspects, even though she would be unlikely to react.. To add, my family has the same feeling for her so IF the path home is still open, and the time comes then at least there would be no animosity there (one would think)..

The only comment that really came close to any sort of an R talk was a comment that W made prior to leaving to the I/L's.. FIL & MIL had told her that I was invited, but the final decision rested with her.. Obviously they are not wanting any coldness etc at a family xmas function.. Well she chose to say yes, and reasonably happily I must admit..

Anyway, W said to me that I was all good to come from her perspective, and it didn't sound as though it was forced or just said for the sake of saying it.. She then proceeded to say "Just don't get the wrong idea".. What is with that??.. Haha!!..

I replied with "what do you mean get the wrong idea"??.. She said "about us".. I couldn't think of the words to say quick enough, but I came out with "I have no expectations about us with what we are doing today, I just want everyone to have a great day and catch up".. Probably not the best thing, but this whole conversation lasted 20 seconds!!..

We were about half an hour early for lunch so we had a coffee with FIL, and let the kids play with some new toys.. Chat flowed freely which was good.. Communication between myself and W was good considering how many people were there (no ignorance)..

One thing I found to add to the "actions" file is the fact that I caught W 4-5 times today looking at me from across the room.. They weren't f^ck me eyes, nor was it a death stare.. They were sort of "reminiscing" eyes (even though that could be classed as mindreading).. The looks weren't just glances as when I would catch her looking at me, she turned away like a school girl!!.. There was nothing to look at in my sitting direction apart from me either!!..

Any thoughts on this behaviour??.. I know it isn't anything huge, but in my sitch, catching her looking at me mistily more than once is at least 1 to put in the "actions I notice" list..

If I had to work out a reasoning behind it for "what is working for you" then I would have to say it was the days interactions with the kids.. I doted on them (as you do).. I played monsters and aliens with a Dana White bobble head, and the racoon out of "Guardians Of The Galaxy".. Played cricket in the rain and lost the sacrificial tennis ball half covered in electrical tape!!.. Honestly, he had a he!! of a fun day!!..

I think her seeing this MIGHT have tugged at a few heart strings.. I've never been a bad father, but like nearly all of us fathers on here, when BD etc happens I have noticed that I put more time into memorable things with them now as I'm not around as much as I'd like to be..

The story may be a bit all over the place, but I'm on the verge of a food coma and I'm on 3 hours sleep!!.. Please forgive me!!..


Once again, Merry Xmas to all!!..

[LoveMyW]

Missed the edit button but I should have added that I sent a text to MIL, FIL & W when I got home.. Nothing over the top.. My text to MIL/FIL went:

Hey MIL/FIL.. Thank you for kindly inviting me to yet another xmas!!.. I greatly appreciate it and all of the effort you put in.. It means the world to me.. Merry Xmas!!..

The text I sent to W was:

Hi W.. Thank you for a great day with our boys and everyone else.. All the kids looked like they had a ball.. I appreciate the effort you put in to it all.. I hope you had a good day as well.. Merry Xmas once again!!..

H

The response I got from W was "No worries, they sure did look like they had a ball and I hope you had a good day too.. Merry Xmas"..


I know it's hindsight now, but were those messages ok to send??..

[LoveMyW]

Righto, so I'm having a bit of a funny moment on the rollercoaster so I have decided to post..

How do I handle things RE: new BF??.. I seem a little stuck on what to do.. We are S (as you all know) and living separately.. I have put down what boundaries I can in this position and honestly, I don't know if they are being adhered to or not.. One part of me says that if the kids aren't being harmed then I don't care, but the other side of me wants to break it all off..

I feel by not saying/doing anything that I am giving her free reign to get their R up off the ground, but I also know that by making a big deal out of it that I am also probably making their R stronger by pushing WW further toward him..

It's a rock and a hard place!!.. I currently don't talk about him, nor do I acknowledge anything that is said about him apart from what the kids say, and even then I fob it off with a "cool" or something along those lines..

Someone please tell me how to handle it!!..

[LoveMyW]

A bit of a strange moment of thinking at this second.. I had a bit of interaction with W a couple of days ago when she came to my place to drop off the kids but after reading a couple of other recent threads on here I may have envoked another feeling from her..

Anyway, I have been GAL'ing my rear end off over the holiday season, and although it was with the kids the whole time (no problems there mind you), we made the absolute most of it!!..

I was having a coffee and chat (as if a neighbour visiting) with her and in an out of the blue comment that "I am trying to show I was being the better parent" and "I never really do that so why do you??.."as I had posted a few photos from a few of our activites on FB.. Funny thing is that she has put up WAY more pics of kids recently than I have.. As I said, this was completely out of the blue, so the comment seemed to be a "mini meltdown" per se..

Something about that makes me think it is somewhere in the script, but I can't put a finger on where it fits in..

Keep in mind none of the pics I put up were rubbing anyones face in it, nor did I intend it that way.. I said to her that I was sorry she felt that that was what trying to do, but that was not my intention and left it at that.. I didn't justify the other comment with an answer.. I changed the subject..

Is this what we would call a working path, or something I should change??.. It has obviously got a response from W, but I can't tell whether to take it as good or bad.. This isn't a new thing either.. It is something that we have both done over the years (pics when doing stuff with S's on FB)..

[LoveMyW]

So I had another interesting interaction with W today when she came to pick up the kids to go back to hers.. Had a bit of a conversation as we normally do at pick up/drop off (at least the communication is there), and I mentioned that I was going to get a haircut and heading out to lunch.. The conversation went like this:

Me: Will probably be able to get a haircut and then out for lunch today..

W: A haircut and lunch??.. Sounds nice..

M: Yeah, I need one and I'm hungry too!!..

W: So who is she LMW??..

M: Pardon??..

W: Who is the woman you are having lunch with??..

M: I think that is delving a little too much in to my personal life asking questions like that.. You have asked me to respect your life, so I would ask you to respect mine in return..

W: Whatever, I don't give a f&*k anyway..

I then changed the subject to something about the kids and what we had been doing..

Keep in mind, there was no date or woman for that matter.. I was just keeping things "mysterious".. I was merely hungry and getting a bite to eat close by my hairdresser..

I coloured my hair after I got back to my place to cover up the greys, so I'm expecting a response to that too when I pick up the kids next week.. The last couple of interactions have certainly got some for of response out of her..

Question still is, is it the right path??.. I know it is said to "do what works", but I'm not 100% sure whether this is working in the way I want.. I'm finally getting reactions that although not good, they aren't particularly bad either.. Is this typical of WAW behaviour and stick to it, or find another path??..

I'm starting to genuinely feel like I am detaching now, and although it hasn't been an overnight flick of the switch, it IS happening.. She genuinely isn't on my mind 24/7 (but who knows with the rollercoaster).. I'm definitely starting to see things in a different light..

[LoveMyW]

Boring couple of days on the W front.. I have been NC since our last chat, and haven't got anything from her end in the meantime apart from a text 2 days ago RE S9 trying to ring me from an app he downloaded.. I didn't respond to her, but rang him..

Time to keep on keeping on!!.. Off to the gym shortly to bust some moves!!.. I found a great outdoor gym which has everything needed, is close to my place and best of all it is free!!..

[LoveMyW]

Having a bit of a down day on the rollercoaster today.. It started playing in my head that this has been 5 days of NC with W, which is the longest time that we haven't communicated in 10 years.. I'm also thinking of the fact that in 3 days it will be the 10th anniversary of when we first officially started dating..

I haven't been as bad as previously, and it hasn't lasted all day as I now know how to re-occupy my mind.. It doesn't help that 5 days in she hasn't reached out.. I think it gives me the idea that she doesn't realistically miss me, but that would be mindreading on my part.. I'll be out of the funk soon enough though..

GAL stuff is off today unfortunately due to the weather, but I am trying to find something else to do to keep myself sane!!..

[HPoirot]

Hello LoveMyW. I think you're doing fine. You do GAL. You speak cordially with W when she contacts you. You ask no questions. You don't initiate any contact with her. You occupy your mind. It sounds like you take your W's insults and moods with class. Nothing else to do. I don't think you should be watching your W for reactions to you now. Doing that too much sets you up to have expectations which she will disappoint. Be thankful your W is not contacting you. You get a chance to detach from her and that is what she needs to see. Keep going.

[LoveMyW]

Well not much to say since my last update except to say that since implementation of very LC/NC I am noticing a bit of minor spew emanating from W.. I'm still confused as to whether I should be expecting this, or whether my path is wrong and that is what is causing this..

A perfect example of what is happening is in the transcript of texts that were sent today.. The only before story to go along with this is that she rang to speak to the kids (which eldest S answered her call) and I hung up when she had finished speaking to younger S.. I had no idea that she wanted to talk to me.. We were wanting to go in to a GAL activity at the time..

Here it is:

Missed call W
Missed call W

W: Why did you hang up

Missed call W

W: Why are you being childish??.. I needed to say something..

Missed call W

Me: I understand how you could feel that I am being childish, but that is definitely not the case.. I am a busy having fun and watching S6+9 at the moment.. I will speak with you in some way later..

Missed call W

W: You weren't when you were talking to S6 and he handed the phone to you and you hung up, and that is before you went in so who is being the childish one??..

Me: I didn't realise that you wanted to talk, and as I mentioned earlier, I am busy at the moment and will talk to you at some stage later.. It's not really the appropriate place to be texting you backwards and forwards..

Missed call W

W: Whatever.. S6 said it and I heard him (there was no mention)..

Me: I'm going now.. Have a good day..

W: Okay.. I already left the conversation as I'm not playing your silly games..

I didn't reply to this message and let it be.. 30 mins later I get:

W: Hope the boys have fun, and when is the best time to call..

Me: They are.. I will message you when I have a spare moment..

About an hour later I sent a message to W saying she could ring quickly, to which she called almost immediately.. The whole "needing to chat" thing was just to ask when she could call the boys later..

Keep in mind, there is no reason for her to call them on my phone as S9 has a phone with a valid number so she can call him directly..

This whole exchange took place over about 1.5 hours.. I was replying in my own time, and was really too interested in what the boys were doing..

Another thing that has her going ATM is the fact that I unfriended her from FB.. She deactivated her account for a week or so.. I was doing a friend list cleanup and saw 4-5 people with "facebook user" next to their name so I deleted them.. I didn't realise that one was W.. She asked me to add her again today to which I replied with "Nah" and left it at that.. Keep in mind that she relayed the question through S6..

So, back to what I am thinking.. Is this to be expected??.. Is it from her losing control of the sitch??.. Is it the WAW mind playing up??.. Any input would be appreciated..

[LoveMyW]

Hello LoveMyW. I think you're doing fine. You do GAL. You speak cordially with W when she contacts you. You ask no questions. You don't initiate any contact with her. You occupy your mind. It sounds like you take your W's insults and moods with class. Nothing else to do. I don't think you should be watching your W for reactions to you now. Doing that too much sets you up to have expectations which she will disappoint. Be thankful your W is not contacting you. You get a chance to detach from her and that is what she needs to see. Keep going.

Sorry for the delayed reply HP.. I only just noticed that you had commented..

Yes, I do try to speak cordially to her when we communicate, and GAL has been a big thing to helping me get out of the rut..

No, I do not initiate any contact unless it regards the kids or financial matters, and asking questions only leads to bigger issues haha!!.. I found that occupying my mind has taken a while, but I have finally got in to that zone..

I'm still getting the hang of dealing with her moods and insults etc, but I am definitely getting better at it!!.. It has taken a while for the advice in the books and on the board to sink in!!..

I understand what you are saying about looking for reactions.. I suppose the only reason I am is because we get told "do what works" and although the reactions I am receiving aren't all 100% positive, they are reactions all the same, but I can't tell whether they are "working" reactions or "change path" reactions..

You are right about her not contacting me helping me detach.. It has made life easier I must admit.. Another side effect of LC/NC is that she thinks I now have a GF.. It's a laugh for me I must admit!!..

Thanks again for the insight HP!!..

[LoveMyW]

I missed the edit button so my next thought is here..

HP mentioned "dealing with W's moods and insults.. It's funny thinking back on it.. Until New BF/OM/AP (depending on how you want to look at it) came in to the picture, there wasn't too much in the way of moods or insults directed my way.. Mind you, this also coincided with her thought of my "GF" and the drop in contact from both sides.. Yes, we have had our moments as you do in nearly 6 months of S, but this has become more frequent..

It's probably good that it has happened when I started getting in the detachment zone (as I have said, I am not fully in the middle of that zone, but it's light is shining on me).. Admittedly, the insults aren't overly personal, but they are happening..

I know from other postings that I can't get any real ground whilst she is in her new R, but that isn't going to stop my 180's or GAL.. I still haven't lost the want for this M/R to work out either.. The difference now is in my mindframe.. I'm in a place now where I know I'll be just fine on my own, and I'm being the best dad/person I can be, but I also want my W and family back complete and happy.. I still love her, always have and probably always will in some way but at the moment W has had to go down a couple of rungs on my ladder for my own sake..

[LoveMyW]

Actually come to think of it, am I being s&%t/fitness tested??..

[LoveMyW]

So W rang back later in the evening to speak to S's, and then asked to speak to me after they had finished.. She did this by asking S6 to put me on the phone after he was finished chatting.. I wasn't going to talk, but I thought I would mirror her interactions to see how it went/goes..

The conversation was 90% general chit-chat (have S's been good, they sound like they are having fun etc), but I took away a couple of comments made by her, and a comment made by S9 after we all had finished talking..

I haven't mind read any of this, and to be honest I'm only posting it here as I am just trying to make sense of the timing more than anything.. TBH, I'm probably just wasting typing time by mentioning it haha!!..

The first comment came about when we were talking about S6's birthday party.. Keep in mind it isn't until mid year but he has been going on about a party for a few weeks now.. She asked what I thought of the idea of having one for him, and I agreed it would be a good thing as S9 had a decent sized one at the same age..

The comment came out of nowhere "OM won't be there and I won't be inviting him".. It was said in an almost happy way, but it definitely wasn't said in a sh1tty or upset way.. Probably just letting me know I don't know..

The second comment came about when I mentioned to W about talking about/mentioning NBF/OM when I was around, and I asked her to please respect the boundary I had asked of her.. She took note of what I said and apologised (sounded sincere too I might add), but the kicker was an out of the blue comment straight after this..

She said "I have never cheated on you, and never wanted to in our M".. Like I said, a nothing comment that could have more substance or just nothing at all.. It was out of the blue, and the conversations we have had lately haven't even gone near the subject.. I haven't even mentioned cheating/affair since early in S..


Nothing of note probably, but I am noticing a bit more of these style of comments coming from W, whether it is me at a further distance, or something from her side of things..


The other comment/pic from S9 was definitely a bit of a strange one given the circumstances.. I'll try and shorten the story but myself and both S's had a photo taken for the local paper a short while ago and I really liked the pic so I purchased a copy of it.. Anyway MIL had also requested a copy from me, and I was going to get one framed for the boys to have in their room at W's so I got MIL's framed as well.. I thought I would do the right thing and get W a copy done for her to put wherever.. we all looked really good and the boys were the main focus so I thought she would have liked it.. I only just gave her a print not framed..

It turns out that she has taken a picture of the photo with her phone (to have on the phone obviously), and has been looking at it a bit.. Once again, probably nothing, but it just seems like strange behaviour.. Am I being a bit dense and missing something to connect the scattered dots??..

Like I said from the word go, none of this actually means anything to me in a thinking sense, but it's more of a journal with a WTF?? aspect (for me anyway) and seeing if anyone else has a clue!!..

[LoveMyW]

Well as every day passes I'm seeing the benefits behind all the vets advice, and all of the other people on here in the know..

We get told to pull back and they will come closer.. I am finding this to ring true.. Although I'm only seeing baby-baby steps at the moment, the steps are there.. Exchanges with W are becoming more friendly than cordial and she is wanting to know a bit more about things going on with me lately etc.. This hasn't happened in a while so it's a change..

We get told to do what works.. At the moment, I have found my best path so far.. I tried many different plans of attack, but for the time being I've found what works for me..

We get told to detach.. It's amazing how you feel when you meet that path and start walking down it.. I have noticed I am thinking more objectively, I'm not having the sitch on my mind anywhere near as much any more and I've still kept the feeling of love for my W, and hope for R/New M without it being my major thought..

We get told to GAL.. Even though most of my big GAL is with the kids when I have them, I have still got a fair bit of solo GAL under my belt.. I haven't had a chance to try something completely unknown to me (apart from my new job) but I have got back in to some old hobbies..


All in all, I am noticing how I am interacting not only with W, but with the kids, co-workers and anyone else.. Validation seems to have been a big thing that I should have been working on for ages.. Now I have started employing that in every available circumstance and I have noticed the quelling side of things.. It would probably be a 180 for me even though I've really only just noticed how little validating I did!!..

Thanks to everyone who has had input so far (and that's pretty much everyone as I try to read as many sitch's as I can!!) and lets keep on going!!..

[LoveMyW]

Had the kids exchange today and all went well.. We had our coffee/chat about logistics and did what had to be done.. W was trying to dig a bit more in to my personal life I noticed and was a bit miffed when I didn't give anything up..

I was only meant to have the kids for 1 day, but due to not working tomorrow I offered to have them for 2.. The more time I get around them the better.. I made the statement that although I had plans for next day previously, they had fallen through so I didn't mind looking after them..

She asked "what did you have planned and who with??".. I replied that I just had some stuff to do with a few friends.. She then started reeling off family members and friends she thought I was doing something with.. I said no to all of them, and wasn't lying either.. I wasn't an ass about it and simply gave no more info than was needed.. You could tell her mind was going million to one and that she had just about bitten her tongue off..

Anyway, I left it at that and changed the subject.. I have to admit that it is great to be able to co-parent with her the way we do and it is the best thing for the kids to see.. I have also noticed a lot of "us" talk about the kids over the last couple of weeks.. Things like "Dad and mum will think about it" and "when mum and dad can afford it".. For the most part that hasn't been the case and more along the lines of "We'll see"..

Little steps forward to being amicable without being the gay friend really.. I've made it pretty clear that I'm not interested in "friendship" as such, and to her it seems like the removal from FB was a sealer to this..

[LoveMyW]

Just a weird thought here really.. Since my headspace has been a bit better, I've had a heaps of likes and comments on FB from non related (neither myself nor W's family) females on pics etc I put up.. It's a strange one as I haven't professed any M problems or outwardly been "down" over any issues I have had over FB so it isn't that.. These women didn't even pay any attention to anything at any time in the past but since the "clearance" they have come out of the woodwork.. The closest I have professed to singledom on there is pics of just myself and the kids, but that wasn't unusual beforehand anyway.. These are women of all R status's and ages too so no particular demographic either..

It has been noticed as well, and I have seen a reaction to it.. Funny how things work!!..

[LoveMyW]

Nothing much different to report of late.. No movement in any direction.. WAW's new R seems to be all go from the outside, but as we all know, the outside doesn't mean anything..

NC/LC is still on the go as well and it has been quiet.. Funny enough, I'm not minding it..

Here is a question I pose though.. Would my W be having any of it play on her mind??.. I know that I am doing it for me and not for a reaction, but do they have something dawn on them through the lack of communication??..

[Ontheup]

Hey LoveMW

You have to push those thoughts out of your mind because it means you are not concentrating on you.

In my opinion she would have to be some sort of sociopath for it not to play on her mind or at least think about it. You already answered your own question really a few posts up when you said she was questioning you. I know they seem like they don't care and moving on etc but I just don't buy it. Its all part of the fog. You have to remember that they checked out a long time ago. For us this is all still fresh.

Forget about her and OM. Its fantasy land.
Concentrate on you and the kids.

Move on for you and whatever the outcome you'll be a better person.

I fully understand as i'm also going through this.

[rd500]

Hi LMW, just re the signs, I find it best not to mind read. Its really hard not to but they could take you down the wrong road. As one of the vets said a long time ago, its the actions of the WAS not what they say.

Just to give you some examples of my W this week alone,

She has started calling me sweetheart again, she has texted me that our M was far from bad and it was mostly good. She has arranged a new deal with Sky for the house, telling the engineer that she needed to speak to her husband re details. She has texted me aleast twice everyday this week, including last nite when she stays in the house !!! and she will call me on the phone most days. This morning there was a ring on her wedding finger, which is huge for my D's as they asked her 4 weeks ago to put them back on and W told them she was now wearing them on her other hand and would not change.

Thats just in the last 5 days. If I mind read I would be getting her PJs ready for her !!! LOL

At the same time alot of people on here have very strained realtionships with the WAS so I wouldn't ignore the signs but actions speak louder !!!!

On the WAS seeming happy, I can tell you that I was convinced that my W was more than happy with her choice even though she was clearly unhappy about leaving kids and three weeks ago she called me and told me that she was very unhappy with her new life and was crying most days because she has lost everything.
Your W is second guessing everything you say and do.

Keep strong and as we all tell each other, it's a long road. Your M didn't fail overnight so it can't be repaired over night either. Take care RD

[LoveMyW]

Hey LoveMW

You have to push those thoughts out of your mind because it means you are not concentrating on you.

In my opinion she would have to be some sort of sociopath for it not to play on her mind or at least think about it. You already answered your own question really a few posts up when you said she was questioning you. I know they seem like they don't care and moving on etc but I just don't buy it. Its all part of the fog. You have to remember that they checked out a long time ago. For us this is all still fresh.

Forget about her and OM. Its fantasy land.
Concentrate on you and the kids.

Move on for you and whatever the outcome you'll be a better person.

I fully understand as i'm also going through this.

Hi SRD.. Don't worry, my focus is on myself and my kids.. I'm agreeing that the fog is starting to lift ever so slightly..

TBH, I Really don't care about her and OM's interactions.. It was more journaling/thoughts..

We are all here for the same reasons!!.. I will check out your sitch fully later..

Hi LMW, just re the signs, I find it best not to mind read. Its really hard not to but they could take you down the wrong road. As one of the vets said a long time ago, its the actions of the WAS not what they say.

Just to give you some examples of my W this week alone,

She has started calling me sweetheart again, she has texted me that our M was far from bad and it was mostly good. She has arranged a new deal with Sky for the house, telling the engineer that she needed to speak to her husband re details. She has texted me aleast twice everyday this week, including last nite when she stays in the house !!! and she will call me on the phone most days. This morning there was a ring on her wedding finger, which is huge for my D's as they asked her 4 weeks ago to put them back on and W told them she was now wearing them on her other hand and would not change.

Thats just in the last 5 days. If I mind read I would be getting her PJs ready for her !!! LOL

At the same time alot of people on here have very strained realtionships with the WAS so I wouldn't ignore the signs but actions speak louder !!!!

On the WAS seeming happy, I can tell you that I was convinced that my W was more than happy with her choice even though she was clearly unhappy about leaving kids and three weeks ago she called me and told me that she was very unhappy with her new life and was crying most days because she has lost everything.
Your W is second guessing everything you say and do.

Keep strong and as we all tell each other, it's a long road. Your M didn't fail overnight so it can't be repaired over night either. Take care RD

Thanks for the input RD.. No mindreading going on!!.. As I replied to SRD, just journaling/thinking.. It's the first thought I've had like that about W in a few weeks now, and it feels good!!..

That seems like some changes in your sitch.. Keep up the good work!!..

I agree with my W second guessing.. I think I've finally found the right combination of "do what works"!!.. For now anyway!!..

[Ontheup]

Hey

Great stuff. It is good to journal. Gives me great comfort knowing we're all here rooting for each other. I'm only 2weeks in since OM Dday but each day I feel ever so slightly better. There are hard times coming up. Telling our daughter for one and then me moving out. Although financially it will be tough I'm looking forward to moving out. I can't put up with my wife's fake friendliness for much longer.

[LoveMyW]

Ok, so cracks in W's outer are starting to appear, or at least that is what I THINK I am seeing..

We had kid exchange today for my weekend with them.. W arrived a bit earlier than expected (only 10 mins or so) and I was in the shower after work when they knocked on my door.. I basically jumped out of the shower, wrapped a towel around me and went to the door to let them in..

I quickly greeted them and started to make my way back to the bathroom to get dressed etc.. Well W decided to engage me in some very idle chit-chat as I was walking back, but it was enough to answer.. Well I was standing there talking and caught her blatantly checking me out.. Like the full up and down with a glint in the eye.. I must admit, it gave the ego a boost as I am looking fairly good after a bit of working out!!..

Anyway, after W left the kids filled me in one their last few days as they always do.. S6 mentioned that OM told him to "P" off when he went in to W's bedroom.. I called W to ask about this to see if it was true or not.. I was cool, calm and collected when I called W, and kept a light tone on the question.. She answered me that although he was told to go back to bed, "P" off wasn't included by either her or OM..

I said that her saying that was fine, but I'm not OK with OM disciplining our children, especially that he isn't well know (apparently).. Well she got irate, told me that she would never let anything happen to the kids and tried to goad me in to an argument.. I didn't bite.. I told her that I wasn't OK with her raising her voice at me, swearing or using a tone and requested that she stopped (pretty much the exact words)..

She was still the same after that so I politely ended the call.. 5 mins later I receive a text which was a bit left field.. W wrote:

I know what you are playing at, you are trying to word your words right so you can take the kids off me.. I have never said you can't be active in knowing what the kids are doing but there is a thing called trying to dictate someone.. As it seems that you are pretty much saying that we harm the kids. Which I would never harm my children or put them in harm or someone else..

^^ Basically how it was written..

I replied that I wasn't will to text back an answer, but I would rather answer her by voice as texting about something like this can be misconstrued.. She called 2 mins later.. I mentioned to her that I was sorry she felt that way, but I no way intended for her to think that..

We had a short chat and I re-stated that I wasn't ok with the spew, nor was I good with OM disciplining S's.. She seemed a bit more receptive this time, but still not quite happy.. I said to her that I've gone from seeing the kids 24/7/365, to 8 days a month minimum and that I was just checking facts to keep smooth co-parenting.. She agreed that I did have a right to ask, and that "You know you can have the kids more when your time allows" (kid time has NEVER been a problem between us, and still isn't), "You don't know how much I hurt when I drop them off and don't see them for the weekend" (good one W!!)..

I very nearly un-DB'd by saying "It doesn't have to be like this".. I caught myself in time and just validated..

Why am I mentioning about cracks??.. Because W went from obviously attracted to irate to upset all within the space of an hour or so.. Something is going on here and I can't put my finger on it.. Am I rocking the boat??..

[Barry]

Hi LMW,
I'm fairly new here so this is just my take on things (i've read all the posts on your sitch - quiet day at work lol).

She definatly sounds confused at the moment, which is probably why the mixture of emotions are spewing from her. Maybe this OM DID tell S6 to P off, but she doesn't want you to know about it and she's angry at him for doing that too. From what you say of him, it could be that she's realising the grass isn't greener etc. This is all speculation obviously, so careful monitoring seems to be in order.

I like the way you're handling all of this, you seem to be in control of your emotions regarding the R/M/OM, and are conducting yourself in the right way IMO.

As I say, my sitch is only 6 weeks since BD, and we have been pretty much NC in that time. I'm four years older than you but have been married three times as long (not that that makes any difference as such). There is currently no known OM in my sitch, but what I'm saying is that I hope (should one come along, which it will do if we don't R), I can conduct myself in a similar way to how you are.

I'll keep up with your sitch, and I'm rooting for you no matter what happens with your M.

Barry.

[LoveMyW]

Hi LMW,
I'm fairly new here so this is just my take on things (i've read all the posts on your sitch - quiet day at work lol).

She definatly sounds confused at the moment, which is probably why the mixture of emotions are spewing from her. Maybe this OM DID tell S6 to P off, but she doesn't want you to know about it and she's angry at him for doing that too. From what you say of him, it could be that she's realising the grass isn't greener etc. This is all speculation obviously, so careful monitoring seems to be in order.

I like the way you're handling all of this, you seem to be in control of your emotions regarding the R/M/OM, and are conducting yourself in the right way IMO.

As I say, my sitch is only 6 weeks since BD, and we have been pretty much NC in that time. I'm four years older than you but have been married three times as long (not that that makes any difference as such). There is currently no known OM in my sitch, but what I'm saying is that I hope (should one come along, which it will do if we don't R), I can conduct myself in a similar way to how you are.

I'll keep up with your sitch, and I'm rooting for you no matter what happens with your M.

Barry.

Thanks for your comments Barry.. I will catch up on your sitch soon, and see if I can give any advice..

I kind of gathered it is the emotions mixed up.. You are probably right about OM actually saying P off and that she isn't real impressed.. I have a sneaky suspicion that W wouldn't tell me as I would have no hesitation in nipping it in the bud, and she knows this.. She knows I am fiercely protective of my children, and credit where it is due that she is too.. Agreed that further monitoring is the go though..

Thanks for the big ups on the handling of the sitch.. It took me quite a while to get where I am now, and still have a ways to go before I am a DB master.. I'm staying on the path though!!..

Keep up with your NC/LC.. It does work wonders for yourself.. I've found that being cordial/polite/neighbour friendly to your spouse when they do talk is the way to go as well.. It puts them in a more comfortable spot when communicating with you..

I hurt enough in my sitch, so I can only imagine what you are feeling with a longer M/R!!.. Keep it in your mind that it does get better though..

Thanks for the cheerleading haha!!..

[LoveMyW]

I've come to a realisation today that W is really clutching at straws for reasons to spew as she has been lately.. It seems now that my validation and neighbourly/business like manner that was the cause of the text outburst I received the other day..

Basically it all started with a text convo earlier.. Here is the rundown

W calls (I didn't hear it)

10 mins later W texts

W: Would you like me to bring the game console over for you to set up for the boys?.

(We had already agreed that it would be sorted next weekend)

Me: We are not around at the moment, but you could drop it up later if you were near the area..

W: Okay not a problem. I won't worry about it.

Me: No worries.. Have a good day..

Roughly 30 mins later

W: I can come over for a coffee now if you want..

Me: We are still out at the moment but will be back in about an hour..

W: I have stuff to do so I'll see how I go..

Me: Righto then, Well we will see you in the morning.. Have a great day..

W: I've got to get (a matter) sorted that's why.. I'm waiting for (parent) to finish work and get home that's why I can come around nowish..

Me: Well we are out and about so we'll probably have to give it a miss.. Talk to you later..

W: Yeah..

I stopped there..

So we get home and roughly 15 mins later W is on my doorstep unannounced with the game console.. I said thank you and invited her in for a coffee..

She hit me with a possible change we could have with the kids time between each of us.. I reiterate that visitation and splitting of the kids between us has NEVER been an issue regarding times and when etc.. We have a minimum time that has been agreed to, but more has never been an issue..

Basically, she said I could have them each weekend instead of every other.. Due to my work hours, a week on week off basis would not work hence the weekends.. As much as I'd love to have them each weekend, I can't help but to think there is an ulterior motive behind it.. I asked if we could sit down and talk about such plans without the kids around as I would like to be able to take all the info in without distraction.. She said she would let me know..

She changed her conversation to the message, and I said to her that I didn't want to engage in that conversation, but I did mention that it was a silly thought and that I have no intention of taking the kids away from her whilst they were safe and looked after, and that I was sorry she felt that way.. Now, as much info as I have found out, I must admit they are safe AT THE MOMENT..

She then said that "the way I am wording everything lately" is the reason she thinks that I am wanting to take them away.. The only thing I have been "wording" in last month or 2 is validation, neighbourly interaction and setting boundaries as I can when the time arises..

Basically, like I said W is clutching at straws for things to spew at me about if validation is an issue.. I'm guessing she is feeling as though she is losing control of the situation hence the unrequited and uncalled for spew.. There is pretty obviously a reach out happening here, especially with todays unannounced visit.. Where it is going, I don't know, and don't really care until more actions are made..

[LoveMyW]

New spew ahead!!.. W is now peeved that I am calling her by her first name in texts etc!!.. Grabbing at straws??..

Well I'm in a rock and a hard place regarding the offer that was put to me about sharing of the kids..

I've had a chance to think objectively about it over the last 24 hours and I'm really not sure which path to take.. Something that swayed me to being indecisive on it was a couple of comments W made that at the time didn't really mean anything then, but looking back could be something..

The 2 comments made were "I have them all week" and "I have to ask XYZ to borrow some money"..

Unrelated in the conversation (they were at 2 different times on different subjects) but enough to make me look at the bigger picture..

Just to clarify the current sharing agreement, I have them from afternoon Friday, to Monday morning every other week, and Sunday morning to Monday morning on the alternate weeks.. The offered arrangement is afternoon Friday to Monday morning every week.. As mentioned previously, my hours don't really fit well with a week on-week off arrangement..

Now, part of me is saying "Heck yes!!" as I will have the boys more as a certainty, and there is nothing more I like than having them around.. We have started some little "traditions", and we always call our weekends together "mans weekend" and they/we love it!!..

The other part of me is a bit cynical (for want of a better word) about a few things though..

This part is telling me I should say no.. This is where the "I look after them all week" comment comes in.. With the way it was said (tone etc), W MAY be run off her feet with them and needs more downtime.. This is where I am thinking that she needs to have the consequences of her decision to leave shown to her..

Another reason is the money comment.. It is pretty obvious that her life is a bit harder than she thought it would be financially.. I don't help her out financially for anything not kid related any more, and to this comment I didn't even mention helping.. It was up to her to reach out to me.. It ties in with the kids as when they are there obviously it means more food etc..

Funny point on the above reason.. She has mentioned that she doesn't ask OM for money to borrow etc.. That could be taken a few ways!!..

Another thing.. She has had 4-5 solid months to offer me something like this.. Why now??..

My last and least "No" reason is that I see it would give her and OM more "alone" time on the weekends.. Once again, she needs to see the actions of her actions..


With all the other developments of late (spew, anger etc), something is fundamentally changing in my sitch, and I honestly think she needs to see the full result of her actions..

Hard thoughts!!.. Anyone got an idea??..

[jim0987]

LoveMyW,

Honestly make the decision that is best for you irrespective of what works for W or not.

If you have the kids every weekend will you still have freedom to enjoy your own life? or do the different patterns not make too much difference to you?

[LoveMyW]

Thanks for the reply Jim..

Having the kids every weekend wouldn't be too much of an issue for me, although obviously my personal GAL on those weekends will probably suffer.. W has said that it would be flexible as in that S's can miss a weekend if I have something to do etc.. In all honesty though, a WAW can't really be trusted in this situation.. I don't like anyone else looking after the kids when they are with me as that is my time, so if W can't keep her end of the deal then I am out if something is needed to be done..

I can't see her letting me down, but I didn't see her initiating our sitch either..

As I said before, I would love to have the kids more as any self respecting father who has the opportunity would BUT am I wrong in seeing the fact that W needs to face the reality of the sitch that she chose??.. She is finding things a bit harder than she thought by the sound of things, and it just seems fishy that it has come when everything else lately in my sitch started..

[LoveMyW]

Any vets care to chime in??..

[MrBond]

"obviously my personal GAL on those weekends will probably suffer.."

Why? Doing something new with the kids can be GAL. It's just how you perceive it. If they're not important to want to share experiences with, then get a sitter.

"In all honesty though, a WAW can't really be trusted in this situation.."

What do you mean by that? If she has them on her time, you really can't control if she wants to get a sitter or not.

"I don't like anyone else looking after the kids when they are with me as that is my time, so if W can't keep her end of the deal then I am out if something is needed to be done.."

That's a choice you make. It's not your W's fault.

"I can't see her letting me down, but I didn't see her initiating our sitch either.."

Mindreading. You really don't know what she's going to do so stop trying to predict it. It'll drive you crazy.

"As I said before, I would love to have the kids more as any self respecting father who has the opportunity would BUT am I wrong in seeing the fact that W needs to face the reality of the sitch that she chose??"

Yes you are wrong. You're saying that as a manner of control. What your W feels or will feel is up to her. You can't control that. All you can do is control your own actions and live to the best of YOUR ability.

[LoveMyW]

Thanks for the reply Mr Bond..

Ok, what I meant by personal GAL is if I have something on later at night, or something I can't take kids to.. I already do A LOT of GAL with the kids, and nothing would change in that respect.. There aren't many sitters where I live, and I don't really have anyone to turn to if I do need a sitter..

I mean WAW can't be trusted to be relied on if I couldn't take them one day/weekend.. If W knows I have them, then her prospective plans would be made well In advance, so I can't rely on her to say "Ill have them" etc..

I understand that it isn't W's fault, but her offer stated that she could look after them when I couldn't have them.. Refer to my above paragraph as to why..

i didn't mean it to sound controlling, but I have seen comments on other peoples threads that point to needing to show WAW that these are the actions of her decisions.. I guess it doesn't apply here though from what you have said..

I'll take it onboard.. I am controlling my actions, and I'm trying to live to the best oft abilities.. I guess there is a loss of trust in my W along the line there somewhere..

[MrBond]

The other people's threads are wrong. You can't "make" someone see something or suffer something. There are just actions and reactions to those actions. Bottom line is that you can only do what you want to do and control your own actions.

[edz]

Hi LMW

While I know what people are getting at in their threads I have to agree with MrBond above. You can only 100% definitely change you, your actions, comments and even the way you think and react to things. Nothing else. But if you can master changing those, really changing those, you can change a lot.

It doesn't guarantee ever being able to get your w to change or even necessarily notice let alone change (nothing can guarantee that bar her) but, boy, will it make it easier to live life as you if you're not consumed by it all and you continue as the new improved and shiny LMW.

Hang in there.

[LoveMyW]

The other people's threads are wrong. You can't "make" someone see something or suffer something. There are just actions and reactions to those actions. Bottom line is that you can only do what you want to do and control your own actions.

Copy that.. I just keep seeing people saying about making the WAS own their decision.. Guess I was looking too much in to it..

[LoveMyW]

Hi LMW

While I know what people are getting at in their threads I have to agree with MrBond above. You can only 100% definitely change you, your actions, comments and even the way you think and react to things. Nothing else. But if you can master changing those, really changing those, you can change a lot.

It doesn't guarantee ever being able to get your w to change or even necessarily notice let alone change (nothing can guarantee that bar her) but, boy, will it make it easier to live life as you if you're not consumed by it all and you continue as the new improved and shiny LMW.

Hang in there.

Cheers edz.. I'm currently "grasshoppering" changing etc, and I am getting to yoda's level!!.. Still working on it though!!..

DB kind of hard to fully get the head around ATM I'm thinking.. I thought part of the plan was to let the WAS own their decision.. Obviously I have that wrong and need to adjust my thinking..

I'm hanging in buddy!!.. Now, decisions, decisions!!..

[LoveMyW]

Hey all!!.. Well it's been a while, so time for a bit of an update..

Work and GAL have kept me pretty busy lately hence the slackness in updating and posting.. There also hasn't been anything really happening in my sitch up until a couple of days ago, and the ride keeps going!!..

The child visitation arrangement that was put to me hasn't come back up again either!!.. I did ask W about it and she said she has to think about it more as she enjoys her weekends with them too..

Things between myself and W have been coasting along ok for the bulk of the time since my last update, with only her up-downs the sticky areas.. There has been the occasional spew on a low-medium level for the smallest of things and the hot/cold with contact and temperament etc..

The last 3-4 days W has seemed to have delved right back in to the WAW script to re-read the lines again to throw at me!!..

Firstly, (Thursday) it was mentioned to me by the kids that W and OM did a "family" style activity with them.. I mentioned to W that although I was proud and appreciative of her for doing the activity, I did not appreciate OM being around for something that should be a family style thing considering he has only been around for 3 months (apparently anyway)..

She blew up at this and the spew started.. She said "You need to stop being in denial", "Even if I break up with OM I'm not going back to you", "This is life now", "I wont do anything with you and the kids until you are over this and dealing with everything" and other glorious quips!!..

The "You need to stop being in denial" part got me in a way and I did say something not DB like.. I said "How can you say I'm in denial, when YOU are the one calling the marriage over, yet still have all the pics of us up on FB including the wedding pics with both of us tagged in them".. I don't look at her FB any more, but they are in my pics as I am tagged in them..

This prompted another spew, a change to her maiden name on FB (with the married name as the "other" name) and to this point nothing else..


Friday was kid exchange day and all was smooth.. You wouldn't have even thought that W had the blow up the night before.. We did the usual coffee and chat about kid stuff and she actually bought up life in general in the conversation..


Saturday I had to meet up with W to drop off some replacement fish for S9's tank.. He has a hungry Dragon Fighter!!.. Once again, smooth conversation (although short), a couple of good laughs and then off me and the boys went for our next adventure!!..

Sunday - No contact from W..

That brings us to this morning at kid exchange.. W asked if S9 had bought back his game consoles with him.. I replied no as he wanted to leave them here until next weekend (S9 had actually spoken to me about it earlier in the morning).. She turned around and spewed again saying that "I may as well get rid of them" and "What are they going to play on the weekend now" among others..

I REALLY wanted to answer her last statement, but had to make amends for Thursdays debacle.. I couldn't even think of how to validate her comments so I didn't engage in them.. I needed to go anyway so gave the boys a hug and kiss and said I would talk to them later.. I gave W a wave and a smile as I was walking back to my car..


Well, they were my shining lights since my last update!!.. In some ways I think W's emotions may be off due to our wedding anniversary being tomorrow.. I'm not thinking too much about it personally, but ask me that at this time tomorrow!!.. I'd still like to think of her as a human and that is why I believe it would be on her mind in some way or another..



It's right now that I see what is said about the gift of time and this being a marathon.. I'm now 7 months in to S and now dealing with OM and the WAS script renewal I realise I have to be in this for the long haul!!..

[Sherman333]

I feel for you brother. It's tough.

My wife just started our fun. So I have a road ahead.

Glad you could keep your head on your shoulders. It can be the hardest thing.

[Wet]

... Firstly, (Thursday) it was mentioned to me by the kids that W and OM did a "family" style activity with them.. I mentioned to W that although I was proud and appreciative of her for doing the activity, I did not appreciate OM being around for something that should be a family style thing considering he has only been around for 3 months (apparently anyway)..

She blew up at this and the spew started.. She said "You need to stop being in denial", "Even if I break up with OM I'm not going back to you", "This is life now", "I wont do anything with you and the kids until you are over this and dealing with everything" and other glorious quips!!..

The "You need to stop being in denial" part got me in a way and I did say something not DB like.. I said "How can you say I'm in denial, when YOU are the one calling the marriage over, yet still have all the pics of us up on FB including the wedding pics with both of us tagged in them".. I don't look at her FB any more, but they are in my pics as I am tagged in them..

This prompted another spew, a change to her maiden name on FB (with the married name as the "other" name) and to this point nothing else..

Hi LMW, I'm sorry that you have to go thru this with your W and OM. I think this is one of the hardest things us LBH's have to go thru.

Instead of having a fight about this, do you think having a calm discussion is possible (at least on your end)? I kept the focus on our children when I told my WAW that she needs to keep the OM in her life away from our children. Who knows who these OM are, and the children don't need to be involved in what my W is doing in her private life.

Also, a mild 2x4 for you on throwing FB at your WAW in your argument with her. Just stay away from FB. Don't look at what she is doing. Don't ever mention what she is doing on FB back at her. Her response was a set-back that should have been avoided.

It's tough. Keep your focus on you and your s9. Good luck.