Busting this Divorce - Moving On. Really?

[HPoirot]

HP: What a story. That must have been so difficult to live through, and then to hear it now from your dad.

Sometimes it can be nearly impossible to see any positives coming out of our situations... but perhaps there is a way to see this breakthrough with your dad as something that never would have happened otherwise... and could end up being very life-changing for you in a positive way?

You are going through a lot and I admire your courage.

Thank you so much claire. I admire your courage too for bravely facing tough interactions with your H and the holidays in this terrible space.

Yes, I agree that the horrible horrible story had a wonderful effect... I got healing on my anger for my dad. I can tell my dad anything. I told him about my A. Only last week I didn't feel like I knew him. And my son has a granddad. And my past can start to heal. And I have some hard won lessons to teach my son before his wedding day.

And I love and feel so badly for my mom. Part of my story was my mom flew with me to my college freshmen orientation. She acted unstable the whole time. I hated her for that and felt she ruined the start of my new life. Then, a few days after we got home... I found her dead on the floor. Soon after... I went to college to start this life I've been living. I never healed. Now I have a chance to and accept the real truth about my mom. I'll have to help my bros with it one day.

I did not know this... my dad told me last night.... A blood clot in her leg got worse on the plane rides to my college and traveled to her lung which killed her.

...

Today's almost over. Hopefully nothing else happens. Hopefully I'll finally get some nice birthday cake from W. My W is terribly angry and frustrated with me and it's the best possible place I can be in my M. I'll resist the urge, then, to ease up and have a late night laugh with her .

I feel good PMA. I really do. Just get to bed with no backslides.

Onward.

[Maybell]

Poirot, this stuff hurts, but it also comes with the best gifts of our lives. Like childbirth. . Be well and keep finding the positive.

[JCred]

HP,
Excellent job on the interaction.

You seem to be learning one very important and effective lesson here... AGREEING... Agreeing with a WS is a very effective means of diffusing disagreements. Good job.

I'm seeing I can simply agree with her bluffs which she doesn't expect. Then she always takes it back (like leaving the house, lawyers, taking s11 from the house, etc.)

Then it came... she brought up my A. "not like I would tell s11 what you did." yep.

I chuckled and said "you're right. I'm no one to talk."

Very, very good on both interactions. Learn to agree.

For example, when a WAW says they want out....
"Yes, I agree this hasn't been working" (then be quiet0

Notice who is doing the chasing now. Keep up the good work...

Women are attracted to happy, confident, secure, emotionally strong men. You are becoming that man right before our eyes.

Great job.

[JCred]

I feel good PMA. I really do. Just get to bed with no backslides.

Of course. We usually always feel better when we finally "let go" and realize that we respect ourselves much better when the WS wants out and we freely let them go. Love has to be freely given. We can't force someone. Things happen when we let go because it finally takes off the pressure.

Your actions in the last few days have helped to get her thoughts off of OM so much and more on to "have I gone too far?" All because you have changed direction and are showing great self respect and confidence. (which women keep telling us they are attracted to, right?)

[HPoirot]

Going to bed peacefully! Before I go...

Stop being concerned about pushing her away. There was absolutely nothing you could have done to draw her closer than you are doing right now. First comes her shock and anger, then she try like heck to manipulate you and keep resorting to her bag of tricks. Then when she sees she can not affect you with her dramatics, she will get sad and depressed. All of this is part of the process. You surely did not expect her to fall into your arms when you gave her the BD. However, don't be totally shocked if she doesn't save that one for the final trick.

I thought about that sandi. She did this when she made the "i'll be in this family" promise to s11 then tragically took it away during her "breakdown." I can see her doing this again to me as we near Christmas. I imagine her giving me her real email/phone passwords and sending an NC letter to OM just to take it all back later. Seriously, I can see her doing that the way she was acting with the crying all night tonight.

If she does this... I was thinking of "That's not enough" (she said that to me after her BD when I was angrily listing all of my good points pre DB) or "don't insult my intelligence." Or simply... "Thank you W. I'm still not comfortable with you in the condo." Something that says "I know what you're doing nice try."

Can I word this better? Is this the correct thing to communicate? I can really see her doing this which is sad.

Thank you again everyone for all your help. I really hope good people are learning valuable lessons from my journey.

...

I'm thankful for sleeping pills.

Hopefully the shakes will be less tomorrow.

And I feel good right now. Good PMA. Even hopeful for my M. Extremely hopeful for my life though. And for s11's life too.

I feel like I can do it right now. I had a great day under pressure. I made mistakes but I did not fold.

I did not fold.

[HPoirot]

Just journaling...

I'm not feeling good PMA again. I woke up later than usual. W and s11 were already about to leave for school by the time I ice cold showered (very hard to do today) and got dressed. On her way out, W said goodbye to me like we're OK and said she would bring the car home later. That I would have to drive her to work so she could make a meeting.

"HAVE TO drive her to work."

I'm tired of telling her "No I won't do that." It's very hard for me to do and it is taking a serious toll on me now. She keeps asking me to do things to help her. She acts like her A is no problem b/c she separated while she makes a point to act transparent about not going to OM while her phone keeps beeping with incoming texts.

I've learned so much here about her thought process and what to expect... how she is now justifying her actions. But this thing she's doing... asking me for help... crying so much last night b/c I won't help her... is very painful for me right now. I know I'm not showing hurt around her... like I'm moving on. I say to her sad face that "I'm done with you" and "I don't want you in my home the way you're being now" (I know that's wrong... that I'm saying I'll take her back if she changes... so I'm changing that to "too late for you" starting now). But, she must know how horribly hurt I feel about what she's done. She does not really care how I feel. Especially now that she knows I know everything about her lies to me and s11 ... what kind of person is she that she can she stand to be here with me asking me to get in the condo, have Christmas with her, drive her to work, be nice to her, talk to her? How can she expect that I would respond to her at all after she's told me I should "punch her" over how terrible she's been. Her words. How can she stand to even look at me? I can barely stand to be near her right now.

It's when she's acting put together like nothing's wrong that really bothers me. When she's like that around s11 after what she did to him. How can she live with herself? I honestly want to get away from her.

Now I'm going to have to tell her to take a cab. Everyday she's giving me reasons to reject her... to tell her no. So many times last night I told her NO about getting in the condo... about being with her on Christmas. So many times. Every time hurt me. And immediately it starts again. "You have to drive me to work," she said. I HAVE TO? I was even thinking of meeting her at her office and then drive home from there so that I wouldn't have to tell her no but at the same time not drive her anywhere. Even that is helping her.

OK... feeling less bad now. In the morning I have very shaky moments. When I really remember how hurt I am that she has gone this way. That I had an opportunity right before this happened to change everything and I made stupid choices. I remember that I don't want to do this.

A bad moment. Time to keep frustrating my W's dreams.

...

Really going to get work done today. That is my main goal for today. One solid day of work.

Right now, W is expecting when she gets back home that I will drive her to work. I can text her now that she better get a cab to work so she can plan accordingly... "W... Better take a cab to work when you get home. I won't drive you to work." Or I can wait until she gets home and tell her to her face again (I told her the same yesterday when she asked). Any thoughts?

My brain is fried this morning. I'm tired and the day just started. I'll be better by this evening when she comes to test me as she's done everyday for weeks.

Just not right now.

Now she's calling me. I don't answer.

Time to start the day.

[HPoirot]

Got a VM from W saying she's feeling remorseful and sorry she does know how to fight (for our M). She's sorry she hurt me deeply. She said she doesn't blame me for how I feel or that I talked to a lawyer. She hopes we can treat each other with compassion for S11.

Sent her a text an hour later... "Hey W. Please do not call or text me unless it is an emergency for s11. Also, better take a cab to take you to work."

She texts "Sure HP. I will park the car on the street. You can pick it up. Is that OK?"

"That does not work for me. I am working"

"I will pick s11 up. No problem! Have a great day HP!"

So now a slapped down her "I feel remorseful and I'm sorry let's be nice" VM with "hey don't call me anymore and solve your own problems."

She is even more angry now no doubt. I see whenever she uses exclamation points in her texts like she's happy to talk to me when obviously she has no reason to... I'm about to get trouble.

Anyway... I'm still pulling way way way back and being a hardass.

Doesn't look like I want to be married. Was I wrong here?

Funny, it seems like I'm the only one on here giving their WAS such a hard time.

Thank you again for your help.

[BigMac]

Great observation on the 16 year old games. I'm proud of you for taking the high road, putting yourself and the kids first.

[sandi2]

I can see her as she was in her childhood, never shutting up when she was told no. Trying to wear her parents down until they finally gave in.....just to get peace! She is pulling the same cr@p with you.

Can I word this better? Is this the correct thing to communicate? I can really see her doing this which is sad.

I would look deep in her eyes and say very firmly, "W, my 'no' means exactly that, NO. I am not going to change my mind about Christmas or the condo, so please stop asking me".

HP, I think you are trying to be light hearted with her at times, like teasing about your birthday. Now, she knows you, so she should know when you are teasing. I think you just gave her something new to use for another performance of "These are the Days of HP's Poor Wife".

IMHO, this is not the time to try to get her to laugh, smile, nor to tease her or joke around. After seeing how that one backfired, I hope you will not do this again.

Why did she bring the clothes to your bedroom to iron? I noticed when you did not go to her while she was crying in the bathroom, she made a point to find you. She wants you to see how pitiful she is so you'll feel badly and give her what she wants. As a woman, this is really embarrassing to see her carry on like this, but I am not surprised. It is not uncommon for women to use their tears to soften a man's heart.

Something else you might consider if she just invites herself into your bedroom like she did with the ironing, "W, this is a hard time for everyone, and I'm sure you can understand that I prefer some space."

I imagine her giving me her real email/phone passwords and sending an NC letter to OM just to take it all back later. Seriously, I can see her doing that the way she was acting with the crying all night tonight.

Right. The timing isn't quite right yet. Her main focus Christmas, not the M.

If she does this... I was thinking of "That's not enough" (she said that to me after her BD when I was angrily listing all of my good points pre DB) or "don't insult my intelligence." Or simply... "Thank you W. I'm still not comfortable with you in the condo." Something that says "I know what you're doing nice try."

Can I word this better? Is this the correct thing to communicate? I can really see her doing this which is sad.

Well, I may get switches in my Christmas stockings for saying this, but I would just have to say, "Sorry, too little too late". Then walk away. That is a truth dart that really needs to penetrate.

You see, this is just a taste she will need to experience. She has to see for herself that you are through with her. You have decided you won't take whatever crumbs she decides to leave for you. She needs to see what it must have been like for you. (Only she can't really feel the same as you did.) That is why it is important that you don't cave while she's applying this pressure.

I feel like I can do it right now. I had a great day under pressure. I made mistakes but I did not fold.

YES YOU DID!

And you can do it again today. You start every day, it seems, with a good PMA...and it use to get shot down by her mood. Sometimes fear would creep in and ruin your PMA. Something I've learned about courage, HP, I want to pass along. Courage means doing it while afraid. (whatever "it" is). Feeling the fear does not mean you aren't brave, but doing it in spite of the fear takes courage.

[Wonka]

HP,

I am firmly on Sandi's side on this one:

Well, I may get switches in my Christmas stockings for saying this, but I would just have to say, "Sorry, too little too late". Then walk away. That is a truth dart that really needs to penetrate.

You see, this is just a taste she will need to experience. She has to see for herself that you are through with her. You have decided you won't take whatever crumbs she decides to leave for you. She needs to see what it must have been like for you. (Only she can't really feel the same as you did.) That is why it is important that you don't cave while she's applying this pressure.

That ^^ is the crux of the whole matter: not accepting crumbs from WAW. I hope every LBH reads this and lets that sink in in their wet noodle minds.

HP, no it will signal the death knell of the M. Instead, it will signal the death knell of the Wet Noodle HP and show your W that you mean business when it comes to your boundaries.