Busting this Divorce - Moving On. Really?

[HPoirot]

Thank you maybell. Your support means a lot to me. Yes it is a lot to carry right now. I know, though, there's meaning and value to be found in all this suffering. We'll all make it.

And thank you zew. Yes amazing what it takes to really appreciate a father sometimes. He might have died with me carrying my resentment. And yes... Crystal clear clarity is coming. I stayed in bed until 9am. My painful terrible anxiety anger shakes and thoughts came this morning. There are new terrible images in my head. Then they all left sooner than usual. Not as bad. Getting better I hope.

W is still being very friendly. I did civil and businesslike... But I could not bear o look at her. Could not bear to be close to her. I answered her briefly, told her her idea about a play date was fantastic, and dismissed her by walking away. She was holding her head in her hands later. I noted again I am very unsympathetic. Something changed last night. She is losing me quickly now.

[Vanilla]

HP

Kindness in this. Your parents relationship is between them, both of them clearly loved their children.

Vanilla

[Wonka]

HP,

I am speechless after reading the story about your father and mother. Just wow. Thank you for opening up and sharing here with us. What an incredible journey your father traveled. I am sure you now see him with a new set of eyes and appreciation for what he's done for you and your brothers.

I respect him for not bad mouthing your mother and not airing the dirty laundry for he wanted you and your brothers to love your mother without the lens of her affair. My hat's off to him.

Your comment about not liking his new companion was interesting. My mother has remarried and we all like our stepfather. We appreciate the fact that my mother has someone in her life who she enjoys and he respects her. My mother is happy. That is all that matters.

I know who my father was and no one can ever replace my father. No way! He lives on in my heart.

[HPoirot]

Hello Wonka. Thank you for your post. My dad's story was horrible to hear... but it made so many parts of my memories come together and make sense. Somehow it was healing. Today has not been as painful as other days. And yes... I'm so grateful for my father. Before all this I never made an effort to know him. He shared something incredibly painful to him to try to help me. Now I have another new friend... my dad. Something else good coming from all this suffering.

And yes on his companion... I see what my issue was and how wrong I was. My dad is happy. He's earned it many times over. And my son has a happy granddad he can now finally get to know better. That's all that matters.

...

I'm not answering texts or calls from W again. I gave her the pissed off vibe this morning. She had a lot of nerve asking for a drive to work now that her full A is out in the open. It seems again like she's expecting me to just be fine and friendly b/c this is the way things are... b/c it's best for S11.

Well she's home now. Let's see.

[HPoirot]

Well I'm in the negotiations phase of this where I'm accepting the separation and working with W on s11 scheduling and where he'll go to school next year. I see this is going to be terrible.

I opened after my BD about moving to the condo by asking her for her dates when she needed the family car for work. At first she accused me of wanting to take her baby, then said she was wrong, then fought again, then agreed to get me dates to share.

So, today I brought up my wanting to move to Florida and asked her to consider options. She started crying and saying I wanted to take her baby again. I did not fold and said I was only asking her to consider it. We agreed to send s11 to a public school in another state to save money. She's crying and asked "do we need a lawyer... no mediator... to help us?" I said, "no were 2 reasonable adults we can figure it out." Somehow I mentioned again that I had talked with a lawyer. She starts sobbing "you have a lawyer and you're going to sue me for custody of my baby!" over and over. It seemed fake. I did not fold... stayed calm and even. Told her I do not want to take s11 from her. She's her mother and he needs her. Told her I'm the same person she's always known... I don't want to compete with her on anything. I don't want any of this (I should probably stop saying that). Looking pitiful she mentions again how she doesn't want to be married to me and says something like "you just want me to say I want to be in M with you with no love." I did not react to that though it hurts to hear her say that. She is so against me. I put my hand up like a stop sign and said something like "No. The way you're being now I don't want you in my house." Too far there.

During the conversation, she opens a notebook and writes something down so I can't see it. After the convo, she gets a text and tells s11 she's going for a coffee (in the evening). She leaves.

So it seems I'm making her an enemy now. Cornering her instead of just giving her everything she wants. She said what I said about Florida scared her. She said that before with my condo BD. She starts to cry and moan and act attacked when I tell her what I will do in this sitch. I try not to reassure her in those moments. I don't think I said I wouldn't sue her for custody ... and did not say that I would. She also mentioned "if we're still separated or divorced" when she talked about the future. Like she's looking to scare me. Maybe lawyer up.

She just really seems against me. She looks at me like she's exhausted of me. For half the convo she had her back turned to me. I did not see tear despite her crying.

I mean what I said about not wanting her in my house the way she's acting. Normally I would have said something like "We can rebuild our M." This time I really rejected her.

2x4 for being too hard on her now? I must be pushing her away with all this? She's not feeling closer to me her panic whether it's real or not.

Was I wrong to bring up florida for consideration? Am I being too hard on her now? What is the best way to treat her in these negotiations?

It would be really funny if one day her and I could look back on all this and laugh. Right now I really think she hates me.

Oh... and how can I best answer when she says... "you just want me to say I want to be in M with you with no love." She uses that to shut me down like I want to control her. I can see how everything I'm doing looks to her like control.

[Wonka]

HP,

You're trying to control things around you by "negotiating" things with W. And Florida? Yeah, that was far too much, too soon.

As of this morning, you were in a very good and strong position. You undid all of that by mentioning Florida and "negotiating" with W. I cannot blame W for thinking and accusing you of taking away S11.

What was your goal by bringing up Florida when you're not YET even moved to the condo?

You are confusing things by mixing condo and Florida. One thing at a time.

Right now, the focus is to move to the condo as seamlessly as possible with the minimum amount of disruption to S11. By you being out of the rental, you and S11 will establish your own routines and W will have to figure her stuff out.

This is where the rubber hits the road, HP. Forget Florida.

And why bring up your L? How's that relevant to the discussion? Again, you are muddying waters with L, Florida, blah blah blah.

So, today I brought up my wanting to move to Florida and asked her to consider options.

What were you hoping to hear back from W about "consider options"? Such as.....?

Get a grip and re-focus on your immediate goal: condo move.

W says: "you just want me to say I want to be in M with you with no love."

You could have responded:

"I am sorry that you are feeling this way. This is something for you to figure out yourself." And leave it that way.

[sandi2]

I appreciate you sharing that painful experience. Do you believe that was the root of all your anger issues? I hope so, and that you can now heal. Your dad was trying to protect you boys, but in doing so, he kept the truth from you and it ruined a relationship between father & son. I have not none anything to that degree, but have been guilty of trying to protect someone and in return I was made out to be the bad guy. I hope when you said it would not happen to your boy that you meant he would know what really went down between his parents......at some point in time. Don't wait for thirty years.

It may not be a bad idea to lawyer up. If she gets too difficult to deal with, you could turn it over to the lawyer.

2x4 for being too hard on her now? I must be pushing her away with all this? She's not feeling closer to me her panic whether it's real or not.

Not from me! I think you are being incredibly nice to her, considering her treatment/behavior in the past few days.

Stop being concerned about pushing her away. There was absolutely nothing you could have done to draw her closer than you are doing right now. First comes her shock and anger, then she try like heck to manipulate you and keep resorting to her bag of tricks. Then when she sees she can not affect you with her dramatics, she will get sad and depressed. All of this is part of the process. You surely did not expect her to fall into your arms when you gave her the BD. However, don't be totally shocked if she doesn't save that one for the final trick.

Doesn't this all simply amaze you, when you turned it around on her? She doesn't want you anymore right now than she did months ago. Yet, after the dust has settled, and when she comes out of the fog, she will respect you for being the man you are being now. She may never admit it to you, but she will respect you a lot more. Look how long and how much it took to get you to do this. It may take her longer before she starts getting her head straight. She may, at times, find herself even respecting you more right now, but her anger is calling the shots for her.

Just as a reminder, she is focuses on using S11 as her leverage, cause that's all she has. She knows it, and we know it.....and I think you do too.

Oh... and how can I best answer when she says... "you just want me to say I want to be in M with you with no love." She uses that to shut me down like I want to control her. I can see how everything I'm doing looks to her like control.

Say, "I confess of being guilty of that charge in past times, but I assure you it is not the case presently. You need not be concerned about me trying to get you to stay M to me."

And if she uses the control issue, say something similar. "Frankly, you are free to do whatever, as long as it does not affect S11 or myself. You do not have to check in with me an account of your whereabouts or your actions, just as long as it does not involved the boy or me". (Wonka or Starsky may give you something worded better.)

She is playing this little game where she is suddenly pretending to be transparent (when ot suits her.) She needs to get the picture that it is too late now. (I know that's not really how you feel, but that is what she must think). She had had this turned around on her and she doesn't really want to believe you can actually walk away from her. As a woman in an A.....it is exactly what she needs to shake and wake her. If anything will, this is it. Do not cave. You are doing great.

[BigMac]

"Walk away from her now and get a life for yourself... the life you want. You will survive"

Your dad is a wise man.

I have been reading a book called "Uncoupling" It goes over the process that an "initiator", in this case the WAW is creating a separate sense of self, separate from the partner.

And the odd thing is, that there is absolutely nothing we can do to stop it. It just "is". The only way that there can be a future is for the "initiator - WAW" to start seeing their future with us.... and that chance is infinitesimally small. But the only way of achieving that chance is to move on so they can be attracted to us.

Take your dad's advice.

[claire7]

HP: What a story. That must have been so difficult to live through, and then to hear it now from your dad.

Sometimes it can be nearly impossible to see any positives coming out of our situations... but perhaps there is a way to see this breakthrough with your dad as something that never would have happened otherwise... and could end up being very life-changing for you in a positive way?

You are going through a lot and I admire your courage.

[HPoirot]

Hello Wonka. Thank you so much for your comments. Yes I see Florida was way too much. She was talking about moving to the next state over for the public schools there and I said "that's a discussion we need to have." She kept pushing and I kept saying that. Then she smartly said "we have to decide sooner than later b/c school contracts get signed in February." And I slipped up and went into Florida. So yes I did scare her but she did say maybe in high school. I know she didn't mean that but maybe that's enough to not rush her to a lawyer. And yes when I mentioned the lawyer I immidiately regretted the excalation. I won't do that again. I was sincere when I told her s11 needs his mom and she know me enough to know I won't take him away. The way she's acting though I don't know. I really like your response to her "You want an M with no love" pushing.

Hello Sandi. Thank you for your support and advice. Yes I think my anger comes a lot from my perception of dad. I noticed today I felt stronger when I would have figured I'd still be devastated from dad's story. Dad's intention seems to have done it's job. I will still go for that IC though. It is tough tough tough stuff and I'm sure I haven't really registered it yet.

And yes... my main thing here is to have no fear and self respect for myself. I feel great about how I'm firm and leading. This is how I want to live and think. No matter what happens here with M... I'm happy to be honing this needed part of my personallity.

As for s11 leverage... there was much more tonight...

I know I'm not supposed to be writing more about W. I'm ready to move on.

After the last conversation.. she went to her bathroom. I heard her crying again.

Later, she came to the bed to talk more about s11's next school options. A message came up on my phone from her calendar saying my birthday was canceled. I smiled and showed her. Acted hurt. "you canceled my birthday! I see how it is now. You've hurt my feelings!" I was teasing her with a smile right after the tough conversation where she was crying. Lightening the moment. She got upset and teary. "I would never cancel your birthday!" she started to cry and left.

I did not call after her or follow her.

She came back a little later with clothes to iron. She usually irons clothes in the morning before school. On the way in, she's staring at me. Strange. Laughing, I say, "why are you giving me the evil eye? What's that?" She starts to cry again.

She says "I would never cancel your birthday!" She goes on to explain how she had planned to take me to dinner on my birthday with s11 but I had made plans with my dad. She's crying while she irons clothes. She starts on her visiting to the condo. I say "I'm not comfortable with you visiting the condo." She tries many ways to get in. "Can I come with you went you move to settle him in? Can I be there just five minutes? Can I see the room so I can imagine him in it when he's away? Can I come in to decorate the room?" Every time I give her the same answer. Even after I say I'm done talking about it, she's still crying and asking.

She goes into how I'm hurting S11. I say "I can see how you would feel that way" or something like that. She did not spend long on that.

Then she asks "can I come for Christmas?"

She said she was going to do his Christmas. I did not fight her on that b/c I knew that she couldn't. I'm seeing I can simply agree with her bluffs which she doesn't expect. Then she always takes it back (like leaving the house, lawyers, taking s11 from the house, etc.)

I tell her "you can do his christmas like you said you would. I'm sure you'll give him a wonderful time."

"I don't have money for a tree."

I say... "I'll get a nice tree from Target for the condo. It will be beautiful. You can count on me."

"Can I come?"

"I'm not comfortable with you in the condo."

Then she cries... "What if s11 has a 2000 degree fever? You wouldn't let me in?" She's crying more.

I missed a chance here. I could have said "Really?" Damn.

She tripped me up here. I said "I'll take him to you." Ugh. She cried more and I said "Come on. Of course W." So she got me there.

I did this well... even and firm and a little loving... like I understood her pain. Even so, this was very hard for me. The socially programmed part of me wanted to give in. To give her the 5 minutes. She was crying (again without many tears). I wanted to help her. I did not.

She asked about presents. I told her what I planned to get him. She made suggestions. I said I'd get them.

Around here I said something like... "Right now I'm only interested in separating from you. I'm only focused on the move."

Then she did something strange. she asked "are you in my email? Something you said makes me think you read my email." I noted her act looked planned.

^^^Now, remember she said that.^^^^

I missed another opportunity. I had my pc on my lap, so I could have said... "yes W, I'm reading your mail right now."

Instead I said... "no W. But if you're worried, change your password." Damn.

Then she said... "what will you tell s11 when he asks why I'm not there?"

I made sure to tell her I would tell s11 that mom loves him and other nice things.

She asked me if I would talk badly of her to s11. I said you know me or something like that.

Then it came... she brought up my A. "not like I would tell s11 what you did." yep.

I chuckled and said "you're right. I'm no one to talk."

Then the timer on the food rang in the kitchen. I went downstairs to get it.

What do I see...

W's closely guarded computer open and on. Her gmail was on the screen.

I did not even look at the screen. But I missed the HUGEST opportunity.

I could have said... "hey W... your PC is open on your email! Don't let me see it!" DAMN DAMN DAMN!

Instead I just ignored it and whatever trap was on it.

Later she comes down smiling and friendly again. She says she's going to her aunt's bday. She informed me of it this morning and yesterday. She was going to take s11 and sees were watching football. She says " you want to stay with dad and watch football?" He says yes.

Then she asks him... "do you want me to bring home a piece of bday cake for you?" He says yes.

Then very friendly she asks me? I say no thank you. Then I remember being nice to her offers. SO I say "What kind of cake?" She tells me and I say ok thank you.

She says see you guys later and leaves. Very friendly when a few minutes before she was crying b/c I'm so mean.

My W is now a scheming 16 year old girl. I really missed on that gmail thing. I'll have to see what she has next on that.

Almost to the condo.