Ok, so it was I don't know ... about a month or two ago, I can recall it so vividly. A beautiful Saturday and I was putting my Helmet on preparing to ride to this little Burger Joint a long time freind told me he read about in a magizine .. I just happen to live 20 minutes from it. So I decided to GAL and go .... I plug in my headphones crank up the Harley .. and off I go. Just as I get on the road this song plays.
It was at that moment those lyrics hit me like a sledge hammer "Learning to Walk again, I believe I've waited long enough, where do I begin?" ... and have been my personal Anthem since. It was just about that time I could feel my personal transition with my sitch go from the focus mostly on W, to the focus mostly on myself.... and knowing the healing would happen that way. Realizing that no healing could happen when I was so focused on my MLC'r .... huge step, the more I practiced the better I felt, I could feel the old me start to return, I should say the older wiser me. Knowing to take things for what they are worth, with a nice big grain of salt, knowing this will not be over anytime soon .... no amount of threads I read here contained the magic bullet to snap W out of the MLC fog .... but what did happen were the responses to my posts, and reading similar advice in others .. the light bulb went off, Work on yourself ... give the rest of it to God.
I am just at my desk reflecting, realizing how far I have come, and how far I still have the luxury of going ... decided to start a new thread, one not focused on my W ... reminding myself this journey .. the one I control... begins with me, and I will arrive at my destination with the help of this forum .... one I am so thankful I have found.
LOL @ Shining ... ok thats pretty funny, only because I too have several friends who have no idea we hang out all the time
Ok ... so journalling/Updating the sitch I have realized I am long winded ... I think its a way for me to purge ... better to purge here and let the hurt little boy talk than letting him out of the cage in public. Besides that I would have to buy extra tickets to all those events. No really .. I am this crazy.
Last night was RCIA Class, I look forward to Wednesdays, I get out ... have started actually remembering some names .. and its like I have become to relax and feel more "at home" there as I continue my journey. Not sure I have shared this .. so going through they give you a sponsor ... for when you might need some help, have a question .... or maybe its just so someone will sit in the chair next to you to discourage you from running out of the room ...lol. My Sponsor, lets call him Gunny ... he looks like an old marine, and well .. that's because he was, then he got out, retired CHP officer. Stone faced/emotion but you can tell he is true to his convictions .. out of all the sponsors I have met, there is no question this guy and me were a good match. So we are told to write down something we are praying for ..... I do this "Reconcile my Marriage" ... then *Shreeek* pass that note to the right. I receive a note from one of the guys I know, pretty minor, but I am sure its important to him. I look at my sponsor as he reads mine .. can you say awkward moment and uncomfortable ... well guess that's one way to share. The note seemed to have an effect on him, but he poker faced as good as he could I think.
So I finish there, drive home. S calls to say goodnight, I was on a good PMA, and making him laugh. Nice call and he hung up and went to bed. I take a shower and jump in bed struggling with my inner demon, do I read, or do I Netflix ... I chose both because I live dangerous like that.
Then the phone rings ... I answer and its W. Asking if I was awake (I kinda laughed I admit) So she is soft spoken seems down a bit. She just wanted to talk .... I am thinking .. ok its been some time since this has happened, push pull in full effect. So I plug in my STFU app and listen. Ok it was a long talk so I will try to just put down what I recall .. She asked about my day, about work ... I shared a bit (She had no idea I have been here over a year ... I recall the MLC'r and the time warp thing, but this did strike me as odd even though I read it here) and asked her about hers. She shared, I validated.. I really need to print that sheet and study more but I think I did well, it was all about listening and just saying enough to keep her talking. Even as she was chatting up a bit but it seemed like she was probing. So then she got quiet, I used to push and talk to break this up, but I was calm, and just waited for her to either end the call or talk. She told me "I have made a mess of my life". I was not sure what to say to this .. if anything .. there was silence, she asked what I thought and I just told her .. to be honest I am not sure what to say about that. Its true .. I mean what I agree and tell her how she F'd everything up... or I lie and tell her things are perfect ... I was not letting Hurt Little Boy out. She actually did me a solid and laughed and told me I could agree with her. Made me smile. Then the conversation turned to religion, she said she has lost her faith. I opened up and shared a bit ... telling her that I think we all find God at certain times in our lives and its just meant to be or is'nt ... used FIL and BIL for examples and just left it at that, careful not to "fix" or try to guide her. Then ... the big one ... I was not ready. She out of the blue asked me if I still loved her. Long uncomfortable pause. This may have been a mistake .. maybe not .. I am not sure .. time will tell. But I told her "I don't know ... (shared to much here and I know it .. but it came out) how do you love someone who has hurt you so much, who does not want you in their life, its hard to justify loving someone like that" I should have left the tail part out .. but it just came out. She asked if I still at least cared about her, if I thought about her during Thanksgiving. I told her I did. She mentioned how we have been getting along better and I agreed. Probing, temp checking ... continued .... then she said something,"you never apologized for ___________" (Had to due with her health issues, I would get frustrated and there was nothing I could do ..I should have just STFU back then and listened but I was angry she was hurting) I told her I in fact had apologized countless times, felt remorse for how I was and how I handled things... and have moved on from that, its in the past and I have to go forward. She asked if I have "moved on" and I calmly told her I am working on myself its all I can control. More small talk then she brought up Christmas ... I told her I felt its best if we have separate Christmas exchanges with S, she said she did not want that. She got a bit upset, not like mad but hurt upset. Asked if that's what I wanted, I told her its not about what I want nor has it ever been I just think under the circumstances it was best. She dropped it and then started talking about BIL#3 and how no one has heard from him, we discussed it a bit, I asked about SIL and how she was doing ... then asked about FIL and she said she had not talked to him ... I then said I thought he called you Monday night as you were on the phone with S and I ... lie or her memory .. who knows.
So .. yeah .. the phone convo was 41 minutes long ... I can not remember the last time we talked that long. I know there were things I could have handled better, but I did pretty well. I am detaching and she is trying to suck me in ... so far that Star-Trek device T2'D mentioned seems to be helping, I just need to read the operators manual a bit better. During the conversation when I felt the urge to speak/fix ... I thought .. nope .. this is her journey she needs to get through this. I STFU, listened, validated the best I could.
So .. I make a new thread that is all about me and my journey ... anyone else see the irony here..lol
So ... TODAY, I am taking a half day, I get to participate in S's Reconciliation Retreat ... I am looking forward to that, we leave early and who knows .. thinking a nice afternoon having some boy fun!
Hi Cali. Love the name of your new thread, sounds like you are on a good path! That song has meaning to me too. Actually, my H asked me to listen to it after I moved back home, I figured it symbolized something for him. The lyrics of songs have always been a big thing for him. Ok, I have to brag a little, but I actually met Dave Grohl this last memorial day, camping at an RV park in Paso Robles! He was super friendly to everyone that approached him, really cool guy!
Anyhoo, keep up the good work
Me 48 H 46 S 11 M 2004 BD 8/13 H moved out 2/15 -live in the present, enjoy the beauty around and within you, explore your new future-
Love the thread title, FF are one of my faves, that song got a lot of spin the past couple years at my house. Another one was "Times Like These".
Remember you always do the best you can at the time, no one does anything perfectly, and no one "mistake" will make, or break, the sitch.
Your W may be peeking out, having a moment of clarity, but those come and go many times, lol... ugh...
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Long uncomfortable pause. This may have been a mistake .. maybe not .. I am not sure .. time will tell. But I told her "I don't know ... (shared to much here and I know it .. but it came out) how do you love someone who has hurt you so much, who does not want you in their life, its hard to justify loving someone like that"
When stbxw asked the "Do you still love me" question, I said yes, I do, but I'm not "in-love" with you right now. Oh, irony, karma, whatever it is.
You know that wasn't executed the best...those judgmental statements at the end... I know you know, but obviously you don't, otherwise you wouldn't have said them, right? (lol, I've no idea where I've heard THAT before)
It's hard sometimes, for us LBS to NOT assume we are correct, "right", and the MLC'er is "wrong". For all we know, this is the path that God, karma, the universe, whatever, set them on, and surely we are not more correct than God or the universe, right?
If you truly are giving her and the sitch to God, then her question looks different. It's asking if YOU can love in a spiritual/godly way...unconditionally. Imo.
Your answer, what does that tell you about that ^^^?
What does unconditional love mean to you?
And I have read and seen enough sitches where the path the MLC'er is set upon actually benefited the LBS, in the end. Whether is was the agent of change to get a person away from an abusive situation, or maybe to transform the LBS into someone better and out of their per-defined ideas of what M/R is and how it should be lived, reconciled or with NP.
Some things we just don't know the purpose behind it all, if there even is one.
That's the "mystery" of life, and keeps it from being a computer program.
Sorry for the philosophical plasma leak...
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
So .. yeah I know the judgmental thing was bad, I knew it as I was saying it and was looking for Clkint to grab the Hurt Little on and put him in his cage. Its like I had to make sure she knew she hurt me ..... minor backslide, I was not emotional when I said it and she at least admitted she did as much .. but yes .. you are on point in calling me out for it. I know better .. I really do.
So the "Do you still Love me?" thing. Truth .. yes just as you said I do love her, and I do feel its unconditional ... I just did not want to admit it to her. Its like if I do then she still has me as that safetly blanket, cake-eat .. whatever and I do not want that any longer. Its like a game, I hate that it is .. and maybe I am wrong for the way I handled it, I never said I did not love her, I just said how can I>? I know in my heart I do but it frustrates me she knows it to and seems to use it to make sure I do not pull back to far .. but I have .. I have detached more and more as I learn "To Walk Again"
And your Philosophical Plasma ... well .. little do you know .. I think you are touching on a big thing I have begun to realize.
There is NO WAY I would have found myself here. I was in a bad relationship, allowed it to be a verbally abusive one... I would not be on my knees, formed the relationship with God, strive to be "That Man" I have painted in my head with out going through all that I have. I was a fixer and a pleaser and I would have gone through the motions to make it look this way just to make someone else happy. This situation ... I was thinking about this on the drive home. Its like W closed the door on our marriage ... for some time I was pounding and beating on that door ... got tired and started just knocking on it ... grew more tired and then suddenly realized a mirror was placed on that door, one I have never seen ... so I took a long hard/difficult look at myself and realized the door was never the problem nor the obstacle .. it was me. So I started working on that person, one day that door will open, who knows what is behind it ... I will worry about that when I can look at myself and appear presentable and know I am ready to allow that door to open into the next life that awaits me.
Good job on standing up for what YOU thought x-mas should be like.
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Its like I had to make sure she knew she hurt me ..... minor backslide, I was not emotional when I said it and she at least admitted she did as much
Yes, they are aware, sometimes they un-bury it for a while.
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Its like if I do then she still has me as that safetly blanket, cake-eat .. whatever and I do not want that any longer. Its like a game, I hate that it is .. and maybe I am wrong for the way I handled it, I never said I did not love her, I just said how can I>? I know in my heart I do but it frustrates me she knows it to and seems to use it to make sure I do not pull back to far
Yes, they do this... lots of people told me I was her "safe spot".
What do you think would happen if you really pulled back? I mean REALLY pulled back. Say, after the holidays are over?
Because, I bet she can still "feel" your "connection" to her, probably discern it from your voice, little facial expressions, etc.
A thought experiment, at least right now?
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
Good job on standing up for what YOU thought x-mas should be like.
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Its like I had to make sure she knew she hurt me ..... minor backslide, I was not emotional when I said it and she at least admitted she did as much
Yes, they are aware, sometimes they un-bury it for a while.
Quote:
Its like if I do then she still has me as that safetly blanket, cake-eat .. whatever and I do not want that any longer. Its like a game, I hate that it is .. and maybe I am wrong for the way I handled it, I never said I did not love her, I just said how can I>? I know in my heart I do but it frustrates me she knows it to and seems to use it to make sure I do not pull back to far
Yes, they do this... lots of people told me I was her "safe spot".
What do you think would happen if you really pulled back? I mean REALLY pulled back. Say, after the holidays are over? One of two things. I think the emotions are high at the moment. Last year she was on the high of the new A, now for whatever reason I get the vibe A is over .. not sure .. don't care. So If I really pull back, as I have .... she will continue to have that alone time to continue her journey, possibly realize what she is losing and who knows .. maybe she comes to terms with putting the new her and the old her together and figuring out what she wants. Or .... she continues to try to fill the void with OM 1 or a possible OM2 ... hard for me to really predict ya know? Regardless .... I am not wanting to be inside that tornado. I also do not want to be a crutch any longer. I would LOVE for her to chose option 1 and decide she wants me, our M and our family. I have realized even if she decides that I will require more, I never was firm about what I want, my needs, how I would like my life to be. I was consumed with keeping the peace and walking on egg shells .... that M is dead ... if she wants a new M with me we would have to start over.
Because, I bet she can still "feel" your "connection" to her, probably discern it from your voice, little facial expressions, etc. Yeah ... 24 years together its really hard playing poker with someone that knows every tell you have. I might aswell glue my hand to my forehead. So the only card I can play is what I learned in SERE training ... Survive/evade/resist/escape ... STFU and do not give out any intel. make her guess .. this has been working. But there is a fine line of pulling back, and just being cold. A difficult line to walk.
A thought experiment, at least right now?
I can not mind read and predict what she will do ... however I do know that she has to figure herself out and what she wants without me all up in her face. So yeah .. I have pulled back, in reaction she temp checks and pulls closer. I have decided my journey can not include waiting on "our bench" .... I know the man I want to be, I am actively doing things to get there ... I would love for her to be a part of that, but she has her own journey to finish up first.
