Yep, reality provided. I keep thinking back to a sandi2 post that said, don't try to force WAS to deal with their decisions, real life has the habit of doing that for them anyway.
M:36 W:37 T: 15 M:11 S6 D5 BD: 8/10/14 IDLY: 8/12/14 S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids) D Mentioned: 10/15/14 Confronted about OM: 10/15/14 EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13 She filed: 8/15 (not final)
So, stuff out of the house....W had some friends, 2 friends we knew together 2 that I've never met or really heard her ever talk about before.
So, I was pretty peeved that she brought someone to help her from our church, a decent acquaintance of both of ours, and obviously she was talking bad about me with them.
He asked me at one point when he first arrived if 'this' was something we were working on. I said, it was a surprise to me that she was unhappy and that she didn't want to work on M. He then said W told them that W felt like a 2nd class citizen around me. Judging by his look, it was almost like he knew he didn't believe that about me and was asking to see what I would say. All I said to him was "I'm the same person at home as I am when you see me" At that point, I started to tear up and I said; I just hope she works out what she needs to and I'm trying to support her in that. I think at that point he realized that there's something amiss in the whole sitch.
It took everything I had to not truly defend myself. Most of our closer friends have been seeing both sides and have come to their own opinions. This person, I care what he thinks about me, but I know I just had to stop and let it go. Saying anything else would not be good.
Well little did I realize, it didn't take long for others to figure out truly what was going on. A guy that I had no clue who he was came up to me at the end and said. "I didn't realize what I was getting into tonight. I now see what's going on. My W did the same thing to me, dropped the bomb on Xmas eve. Don't talk to W for the next month, she'll be angry no matter what you do or say." Then he gave me his # and told me to call him if I needed to talk to someone. No clue who he was, but a classy act to say the least.
So I was kind, helpful and had a good PMA. I realize now that did more than anything I could have said to show people the person I am. OM's BFF was there, I'm guessing W didn't know that I know that he is friends with OM. I've never met him before. Anyway, I have no clue how much he knows about W and OM, but I'm guessing he's having some doubts about what W says about me, but it doesn't matter. _____________________ No rest for the weary...
Stuff's out, time to hit ikea this weekend to start getting settled back in to MY house. Here's the list
Add more under cabinet lights in kitchen Paint ugly coffee table lurking down the basement for 8 years for Family Room Buy a kitchen table Replenish [some] of the kitchen utensils (I had no clue how to use 90% of what we had anyway) Paint master bathroom. Sea-foam green....gone. Man-ly gray on its way New bed frame in guest room [Try] to expand my clothes from the 1/3 of the walk-in closet to the WHOLE closet as well as try to figure out what to do with a whole other dresser
M:36 W:37 T: 15 M:11 S6 D5 BD: 8/10/14 IDLY: 8/12/14 S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids) D Mentioned: 10/15/14 Confronted about OM: 10/15/14 EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13 She filed: 8/15 (not final)
I'm impressed. You spoke with your actions and accomplished more than anything you could have said. I'm also impressed at the restraint you showed with your church friend. It will speak for you much more than if you defended your case.
You've accomplished a lot today. This is a marathon. You're doing well. Enjoy your shopping.
(It all makes me wonder what my W told her colleagues when they came to move her out of our apartment. I think it's very little, like "we're not compatible and it's complicated", but I wonder, especially that a month later, she was openly with one of them...)
M39 D6 D3 (at S) S 2014-09 D 2016-09
"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
Yeah not trying to keep score, but it was apparent that W's attitude toward me was much different than my attitude to her. She was very rude one-on-one w/ me. At one point I said "what do you need next" and she said "for you to get away from me." I just walked away.
However, she couldn't tone it down enough when others were around that it wasn't apparent how she was treating me.
Anyway, its done. I don't want to be in an R with the person she is acting like right now. The people that love her the most see the same thing, like SIL. I just hope she can work this stuff out within herself. That's where faith comes in that this is truly beyond my control.
I've not detached enough, but my IC and I went over my goals that we established from right after BD. I've accomplished all of them to the extent that I have control, so now its just a waiting game. The goals were
1) Establish stability for S5 and D4 (got it) 2) Re-establish some communication with W to discuss non-R things (as good as I can get it right now) 3) Understand what caused W not to share with me troubles in M (hiding A) 4) Understand why W left w/o wanted to work on M (Understand some issues in M, but also understand affect of A) 5) Understand how to teach the importance of M commitment to S5 and D4, if this ends in D (Long term goal, but DB is the first step) 6) Try to work on R with W (Opportunity is there for her if she wants it)
M:36 W:37 T: 15 M:11 S6 D5 BD: 8/10/14 IDLY: 8/12/14 S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids) D Mentioned: 10/15/14 Confronted about OM: 10/15/14 EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13 She filed: 8/15 (not final)
Interesting. I would have phrased #4 differently because to me the answer (why no work?) is obviously OM. The question, at least in my M, is why was my W vulnerable to OM? I blame some of her upbringing and perspective on love, but mostly I know that I left the door wide open for an OM. She told me multiple times that she wasn't happy in our couple and I was way too slow in addressing her concerns, just having heart-to-heart discussions, reducing the criticisms, etc. Well, you know my sitch.
I find it more healing when I think of what I've done wrong to get me here. It gives me back some control. Also, no healthy reconciliation talks will start with you (us) laying thick on them about falling for an illusion, betraying their W vows, etc. This will come much later, ideally from them. Our opening lines will have to be about our faults, about what we've understood.
If you look at Card29's thread, there's a great conversation with his W about the impact of his porn addiction on his M. It opens plenty of floodgates, even though it starts with W laying it thick on him for his failings. I've been following your sitch for a while and I'm yet to really understand what you did to get here. Everything you shared seemed pretty tame, especially compared with what your W is saying and how she's acting. Sure, she's in the fog, but is she really making it all up? Remember that things look very different to the aggressor and victim. The treat and harm are way worst on the receiving end.
Quick anecdote: In 2009, the day after my W lifted her threat to leave me, I told her she'd have to regain my trust that she wouldn't do it again (ha-ha-ha). Her reaction was more or less: "Come on, aren't you being a bit dramatic?" She had no idea of what I had gone through, while it was the greatest pain of my life.
Perhaps you're an unlucky great guy. Everyone around me is stunned that my W left me. Apparently, I'm hot chit and I didn't know it (or my friends are family are just nice to me). But I know how I failed her and I wasn't that hot as a H. So I would rephrase Q4 to focus it on your shortcomings, regardless of OM and A.
M39 D6 D3 (at S) S 2014-09 D 2016-09
"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
I hate to say it but I still can't peg any one or even a couple things onto how our M fell into this. I truly thought that everything was okay and actually that this was one of the better years in our marriage. We traveled a lot, had more family focus, more spontaneity in what we did, etc.
I know a good part of my W's past before me and she does have a lot of stuff that never fully got resolved with IC over the years. I wonder if there was PPD after our daughter was born which brought some of this back into light. But that's her and not the question about me.
I'm a pretty introspective guy and look at my own faults a lot even prior to this and I know that I have issues to address, but the sum of those parts doesn't equal the whole.
I've had a couple theories, but they've all been shot down by the vets. That's one of the reasons I high-jacked your thread, because of what 25years said about multiple A. It could be that it is that all of these things affected it, but I'm still not sure. Especially how she's acting right now with interactions. One of the other things is that in my sitch, this OM had been going on for quite some time; so I think a piece of it is guilt. I don't think she's told me everything and is fearful to my reaction if I found out. I paved the path smoothly on this already when I confronted about OM, but I think there's more she's not saying.
Here's the things for me that I know contributed and I need to change:
1) I was complacent in focusing on our marriage and us as a couple 2) When the kids were born, I saw my role as a dad first, husband second. I treated her that way too, mom first 3) I focused too much satisfaction on my work life 4) Her and I struggled with boundaries when it came to time with or away from the family 5) I was too quick to solve her problems instead of just listen 6)I didn't validate or react with enough changes when she told me she felt overwhelmed 7) I never reacted to changes in our communication method after we had kids. (I voiced my feelings, I thought she did too)
IDK, I don't want to sound like I'm trying to scapegoat. But I really don't know exactly the combination of things that did this.
M:36 W:37 T: 15 M:11 S6 D5 BD: 8/10/14 IDLY: 8/12/14 S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids) D Mentioned: 10/15/14 Confronted about OM: 10/15/14 EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13 She filed: 8/15 (not final)
Bumped into OM while shopping. Before he saw me, heard him talking to someone else about our sitch. Just talking about W and her new place. Then I heard him say something about MCS not letting W have kids. Now, I can say I'm not sure exactly what he said. I did say to W to get settled in new place before we should talk about week-on/week-off (which I don't agree with in the first place.) But just to clarify, W has kids as I type.....
However, it sounded something like "MCS told W that she couldn't have kids unless she got a house." Well, that's BS. She didn't even talk to me between the time she left and the time she bought the house. MCS think W is lying to a lot of people that don't know MCS about how bad of a guy MCS is. That and talking in third person is addictive....
Anyway, then I walked around the corner and it went like this:
"Hey, OM. What's going on?" (with look of fright) "Oh, Hi MCS, what are you up to?" "Just shopping for some kitchen stuff." "Oh" "You staying in town for Xmas, OM?" "Yeah, family lives here." "Oh, well have a Merry Xmas" "Yeah, you too"
So, good thing is obvious the R is still on the down low or over, because I don't think he'd be talking about W the way he was if he was thinking of moving in. (remote fear of mine)
Second, it's a good thing OM's GF was not there, because that temptation would have been just a little too much for MCS not to slip.
Oh well, I guess I passed the test from the man above. Hopefully, he's proud of me.
M:36 W:37 T: 15 M:11 S6 D5 BD: 8/10/14 IDLY: 8/12/14 S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids) D Mentioned: 10/15/14 Confronted about OM: 10/15/14 EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13 She filed: 8/15 (not final)
MCS, congrats on how you handled that run in with OM. I know personally I would not have been able to do that and it just shows how much you've grown to be able to say the things you did.
Think about it from a 3rd person POV. You just wished your W's OM Merry Christmas and sounded cordial and polite. That takes some (censored) balls...rather than jump down his throat. Keep up what you're doing and continuing to take the high road
ME: 28 W: 24 M: 2.5yrs T: 5yrs BD: 22 SEP 14 W Leaves: 5 OCT 14
Thanks a lot, It's a lot easier to not feel guilty when the person that you are betraying is acting like a jerk. I think that's part of the issue with W's interactions with me and over the last year.
I'm a pretty laid back guy and to boast, generally very caring and in tune with people's emotions. I've been that way for a while, but really have to be that way at work since I have a lot of people with various backgrounds on the team of people I lead.
In saying that, that's why it's so weird that W says she feels emotionally unsafe with me. I can say that when I confronted her about OM and she just kept lying to me, I lost my temper and yelled at her on the phone. Mainly because I was so mad that she left me and her family in a lie and had no plans to tell anyone what was really going on.
In saying all of this, I am passive aggressive, so maybe that's part of why I can stay even-keeled in times like this. I also knew whatever I said to OM would A) get back to my W as soon as I was out of site B) maybe, just maybe start having OM 2nd guess some of the things my W says about me.
Last edited by MCS; 12/20/1403:34 AM.
M:36 W:37 T: 15 M:11 S6 D5 BD: 8/10/14 IDLY: 8/12/14 S: 8/13/14 (she left, I stayed w/ kids) D Mentioned: 10/15/14 Confronted about OM: 10/15/14 EA: ~4/13 PA: ~10/13 She filed: 8/15 (not final)
Nice interaction with OM, MCS, that is DB in style and class. A lesson in detachment and poise.
There will be some contributing factors by you, but I am very sure that there are sitches (like mine too) where frankly it's the WAS that just goes dancing to a different tune. It sure wasn't my actions that triggered it but it was what I did next that really caused the damage.
My major reactions 'screaming banshee' and 'plain Vanilla' were my main problems that drove the final nail in the coffin of my M. Pure anger, fear and pain and that's ugly, completely out of character for Vanilla. H responded with total vitriol and abuse. Have you ever seen the dementers in Harry Potter? Well there you have it! Screaming banshee v dementer. Made for a happy home. Not.
I did not have DB then nor calmness. It's surprising the difference that 6 months of DB can make in one's life, I will never be like that again. I sense the same is true of you MCS, and you have moved to that detached space more smoothly.
Groovy Cool Vanilla
Last edited by Vanilla; 12/20/1403:55 AM.
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
