Thanks for your response. As I wrote, I'm sure your intentions are good. Also, I don't mind the differences of opinion, otherwise I wouldn't be here or speaking to anybody, content that I'd be with my own opinion.
I wrote "The way you express your opinion is hurting me." The content is not hurtful. You've asked for examples. I won't repeat the one from about a week ago where you suggested that my W thought I was a loser and thank g*d she had OM. This is very hurtful and can be conveyed much more gently. If I don't agree with you, it is no reason to resort to such lengths. Examples from today.
Originally Posted By: Wonka
This is, by far, the craziest rationalization I've ever heard from a LBH!! OMG!!! This is mad, mad!
There is no need to resort to superlatives, to paint my explanation as an extreme never ever seen. To make me feel like I've lost my mind. You disagree and I welcome your views, except I can't hear them after I've read that. I'm hurt and I back off.
Originally Posted By: Wonka
That was a blockhead comment.
Again, this language is not conducive to civilized exchanges of views. Blockhead means stupid person (Merriam-Webster). I'm hurt when I'm called a stupid person, not to mention that you made your comment after I had already sent my email and gotten a response, too late for any change.
I come here to reflect on my sitch, to share opinions and ask for advice on certain actions, to further my reflections about what I need to change, etc. I also attempt to contribute to others' threads. Almost everyone manages to do this respectfully and we learn a great deal from each other. I'll leave you with your own wise words:
Originally Posted By: Wonka
The use of words and language has a powerful impact. Pay attention to how you put words together.
M39 D6 D3 (at S) S 2014-09 D 2016-09
"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
Please look at the underlying message Wonka is saying to you and don't get lost in the delivery.
Messages are delivered in different ways, and there are lessons to be learned from all types of delivery. We are on the site to learn and Wonka teaches.
Please listen to her
Vanilla
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose. V 64, WAW
As for the topic itself, I'm thankful for your views, Vanilla and Wonka. I see where you're coming from. I'm here to save my R and you can call it a M. My feelings and my actions are the same. Some people here are already divorced and continue to fight. The absence of a M doesn't diminish their fight.
The reason why I brought it up is to explain the context in which my W is living now and perhaps how I approach it. I'm not pleased that she has an OM by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, I have nightmares about it, bouts of jealousy and it makes me cry several times a day. So please, don't suggest otherwise anymore. I recognize however that I've no power over it, nor an approval right. I also clarified that I want my W to know that I want her happiness above all. That's what I want her to know, to remember when she's out of the fog. I'm betting that I can be the best husband for her and that she will realize that by thinking back more clearly about our R and by seeing the man that I'm becoming.
M39 D6 D3 (at S) S 2014-09 D 2016-09
"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
When people use rationalizations, it is for the two main reasons:
-deflecting responsibility for one's behavior
-protecting themselves from perceived hurt/reality
The first category tends to be people like the 13-year old boy who didn't finish his homework like he was supposed to do or abusers who claim that their wives made them that way.
The second category tends to be people who are in situations that are very painful for them. It is a self-protection mechanism.
Dig deeper and ask yourself why you would want to "rationalize" your W's OM as a new boyfriend and you as just a XH. Why is that, Mozza? What are you gaining by that type of thought process? Which part of the small child in you are you protecting? What old wounds are being brought to the surface?
Please look at the underlying message Wonka is saying to you and don't get lost in the delivery.
I'll have to disagree with that. It's one thing that is stressed repeatedly around here, and Wonka did it no later than tonight. Delivery matters immensely. When helping others to change, one has to be kind. Above all, be kind. It's not just for WAS, it's equally good for LBS. We come here at a very vulnerable time. We're going to hear tough assessments of who we are, how we act and how we got here. I, like many others, am ready to hear it. There are ways however that are more effective and less distressing.
M39 D6 D3 (at S) S 2014-09 D 2016-09
"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
I believe I've achieved one of my goals here in your thread.
Do you now see, my friend?
That being mean and critical and persistent is not helpful, even with the best intentions?
As for my M, we'll have to acknowledge that we live in different cultural contexts, with different mindsets about M. I'm sure around you and in your heart, the M certificate means a lot. Where I am, which is not in the USA, a majority of babies are born out of wedlock, not because they are born to single moms but because couples don't bother to get married anymore -- they just commit. Separation rates are no higher than elsewhere. I'm certainly not avoiding the hurt of losing my W and seeing her with an OM. I face it several times a day and it is crippling. If I had never signed the M papers, my hurt and my actions would be the same.
M39 D6 D3 (at S) S 2014-09 D 2016-09
"You can't start a fire sitting around, crying over a broken heart" - Bruce Springsteen.
Please look at the underlying message Wonka is saying to you and don't get lost in the delivery.
I'll have to disagree with that. It's one thing that is stressed repeatedly around here, and Wonka did it no later than tonight. Delivery matters immensely. When helping others to change, one has to be kind. Above all, be kind. It's not just for WAS, it's equally good for LBS. We come here at a very vulnerable time. We're going to hear tough assessments of who we are, how we act and how we got here. I, like many others, am ready to hear it. There are ways however that are more effective and less distressing.
The bolded section is for you to mull over as you reflect on your past interactions with your daughters and wife.
Originally Posted By: Mozza
Originally Posted By: Wonka
I believe I've achieved one of my goals here in your thread.
Do you now see, my friend?
That being mean and critical and persistent is not helpful, even with the best intentions?
I pushed all of your buttons with criticisms because I felt that you really didn't get it and were hard-headed at times. I think you truly get it now. That yucky feeling you're experiencing at this moment is exactly what your daughters and wife felt with your constant criticisms. Imagine for a moment how your daughters and wife felt with you. Rigid. Inflexible.
Sometimes the vets here do really see things deeply & quite clearly and take on certain approaches to get the point across. You may not agree with my approach or methods. That is okay with me. The best teachers are those who push hard and make you do the tough inner work.
