Mozza (5)

[Mozza]

Would you be critical of one of your Daughters in your heart? Would you vent? Frustrated maybe, looking for some changes in behaviour probably, but critical? I suspect not.

I'll disappoint you and myself, but yes, I'm critical of my kids, especially D6 (and a half) because I have higher expectations. In fact, I use them as a barometer of my changes. Am I a better father to them? Do I exhibit the behaviors that I promise not to show in an R anymore? For me it's more realistic to think of how I would treat a girl I'm dating. It seems to suggest naturally how I should treat my W.

(You have two young D's I don't believe for a second you haven't seen it)

Then let me surprise you: I've never seen it! We rarely turn on the TV at home, even less since the S (I've lost interest). I know the song from D6 though. I think she's seen it at school.

[Wonka]

Mozza,

25 has given you tremendous good feedback!

Here are a few that I'd like to chime in as well.

Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
You seem to think you "SHOULD" tell her the negative things you feel as if they have value to her. They do Not. (...) Giving her negative feedback will never make her feel loved. THAT is the spouses job, (not the "Oh but I'm helping her not be so flawed, you know, b/c I just want her to be her best", which is a lie that critical spouses tell themselves to justify their harping and negative focus.)
You hit very close to home here. It's been a big part of our R since the beginning. She was very damaged when I met her (suicide attempts among other things) and she rebuilt through our R, became a confident woman, a mom of two with a good career. I'm 5 years older and more mature, so that often gave me an advantage in assessing situations and solutions. That's how I became the "adult" in the couple, not necessarily because I liked it. But by the time she was 33, she was her own adult and there was no need for me to take charge of the final say as much as I did. As much as I wanted her success, it was always with my support. She needed to succeed by herself -- she'll probably need that to ever g out with me again confidently.

^^ Oh Boy! That was the most patronizing post I've ever seen anyone post about their spouse. Really? Is that how you viewed your W? It came across as in you being the superior one and W just can't cut it without your "guidance." That is not partnership in the equal give-take sense. Being 5 years older doesn't automatically assign one as being the more mature of the other person.

I am wondering if that was the R dynamic between the two of you throughout the M. Is that true? If so, then I'd do more internal work on shedding that type of dynamic by working on your attitudes. More on this later.

Originally Posted By: jim0987
Would you be critical of one of your Daughters in your heart? Would you vent? Frustrated maybe, looking for some changes in behaviour probably, but critical? I suspect not.
I'll disappoint you and myself, but yes, I'm critical of my kids, especially D6 (and a half) because I have higher expectations. In fact, I use them as a barometer of my changes. Am I a better father to them? Do I exhibit the behaviors that I promise not to show in an R anymore? For me it's more realistic to think of how I would treat a girl I'm dating. It seems to suggest naturally how I should treat my W.

Geee whiz. It sounds like you really do not or might not love your children unconditionally because you have those "high expectations" that may end up in disappointment and/or resentment. Good gosh, if they don't measure up to your expectations, then the unspoken message is that they are not worthy of your love. Drop this attitude. Accept them for who they are...not WHAT they are. They will do things at their own pace.

Support. Encouragement.

STFU on criticisms. Sure, I think constructive feedback is more welcome than flat-out harsh criticisms no matter how small or large they may be.

Look inward. Try to be more self-aware of those tendencies.

[25yearsmlc]

I just heard an old Dale Carnegie speech on the radio while driving. It was so obviously true, so innately clear to me, that I forgot that some people do not know this. What He said has been empirically verified literally hundreds of times...and it's this:

People learn faster and change their behaviors FAR more effectively with POSITIVE feedback, than with negative.

So, even if you were appointed by God to "improve" the people you're supposed to love, you'd be wrong to do it your way.

As Wonka said, "Stfu with the criticisms" and when you feel the need to correct someone to "improve" them, with your uber "high expectations" (another cliched euphemism for being critical, imo), look in the mirror and work on yourself some more.

You know the old bible quote about the plank in your eye and the speck in theirs??

Mozza, Don't backslide on this b/c it will set you back a lot. I swear your kids will NOT BENEFIT by your criticism! They'll be damaged.

If you learn nothing else here today, please remember that we said this^^.

Also, the phrase "constructive criticism" seems like a contradiction in terms to me b/c criticizing people is rarely, IF ever constructive. IT's destructive. The only exception I can think of is when someone ASKS you for "Constructive feedback"...and even then you better phrase it positively.


I think you might really benefit from reading some Dale Carnegie books on "How to Win Friends & Influence People" b/c he goes into detail about this. And there is SO much research validating his thesis, and I know I benefit from reviewing it every few years...

There is just no excuse for you to keep this up b/c it's so unhealthy and so unhelpful and your own stated goals are NOT achieved with it.

So MAYBE the reality is that you just like feeling superior, and that might be the source of the critical nature you have been using. (Possibly??)

Change it. You're in charge of what comes out of your mouth. Change it asap.
Seriously.

You'll be glad you did, and so will your family.

[Vanilla]

So, even if you were appointed by God to "improve" the people you're supposed to love, you'd be wrong to do it your way.

You know the old bible quote about the plank in your eye and the speck in theirs??

[/i]

A change in attitude and reading alone won't do this for you Mozza but it is a starting point. Changes in attitude aren't strong enough to provoke and help change endure. You need specific goals and to take action daily. It is what is on the inside that is important, this is an enormous opportunity for you to grow and develop as a father and as a man.

Achievement of material goals matters very little to the higher power within you as it wants you to achieve the growth on the inside.

At the end of your life what will matter most to you?
What your children have achieved or how personally successful they are as people. The external or the internal?
That they have a father who was brave enough to make the changes and encourage them as individuals or that they had a father who saw them as extensions of himself?

These are rhetorical questions.

As Wonka said, "Stfu with the criticisms" and when you feel the need to correct someone to "improve" them, with your uber "high expectations" (another cliched euphemism for being critical, imo), look in the mirror and work on yourself some more.

Mozza, Don't backslide on this b/c it will set you back a lot. I swear your kids will NOT BENEFIT by your criticism! They'll be damaged.

If you learn nothing else here today, please remember that we said this^^.

Mozza you speak so lovingly about your children in your posts and in the longer run that will get you through this process to being the best dad. I am not lucky enough to have children of my own but I have fostered with my first husband. We fostered teenagers mainly and the most damage I saw was because parents were controlling their kids through higher expectations.

You can channel love to your children rather than criticism. Replace one with the other, eliminating alone is not enough. Start this very moment, when you feel the need to criticize, pause, detach, feel the love and project as if acting as a prism. Say nothing, you will smile, your posture changes and love will flow.

Know your children's love language and give as they need to be given to.

Replace criticism with love.

There is just no excuse for you to keep this up b/c it's so unhealthy and so unhelpful and your own stated goals are NOT achieved with it.

So MAYBE the reality is that you just like feeling superior, and that might be the source of the critical nature you have been using. (Possibly??)

Usually we are at our worst when we are feeling inferior not superior. We use criticism to bolster ourselves, to make us higher than others. To uplift ourselves and to make us feel better. I wished that I had truly understood this earlier in my life as it would have made me stronger. In the end the strongest critics of ourselves we have are the voices inside us, those voices can assist our change, listen to them when your shadow critic feels mean and ask if it is yourself you are truly judging.

Working on ourselves is all we can ever really do to improve our interactions with others. Love Mozza and that will leak.

look in the mirror and work on yourself some more.

You'll be glad you did, and so will your family.

Apologise to your children. Simply and nicely with words your children can understand and make amends by changing yourself.

You can not change the past, its gone, when I first became aware of the damage I was doing to the people around me then I apologised and beat myself. I felt ashamed of my past behaviour.

My IC told me to say to myself: " Change has come, I used to be critical but now I am not like that any more. I have chosen to say nothing when I have nothing positive to say and I will encourage when I can."

I wished I had also added replace by love too.

I have been there and here is a much better place.

Vanilla

[topgunmb]

This is why I love coming to the forums and miss it when I don't make it here as often. No matter whose sitch it is, there are always things that can be learned and applied to anyone here. Thank you, as always, for your insights and advice, 25.

[Mozza]

W's birthday today. Mine was a month ago and she sent me an email. I want to use that opportunity and she'd be shocked if I didn't send her my wishes. Also, 25yearsmlc made me realize that I shouldn't stick to closely to the "limited contact" guideline given that I was too distant in the R itself. One thing to consider though, is that my W is in a R with an OM for about 2 months. He spends every day at her apartment and calls her "my queen". So she's probably in love right now.

Her message was kind of sweet: asking me if I had plans, if I was taking the day off, hoping I'd have a good day and that the weather would get better. She even closed with "kisses". At the time, it hurt me because it was so distant compared to what it was in the R that dissolved just a month prior.

I'm really struggling to find the right message, tone, length, words. Let me work on it and report. Suggestions welcome.

[Mozza]

Another thing: She was upset we couldn't switch week-ends with the kids so that she'd be free this week-end. It makes it delicate to mention the kids.

I don't want to ask for her plans: I don't want to pry and I don't want to risk hearing about the OM (though she's carefully avoided mentioning him, except for the announcement).

A few options.

Impersonal
Happy birthday! Hope you're having an entire week-end of celebrations. [And then I really don't know what to add!]

Supportive
Happy birthday. I hope you're having a good day and a good year, really. I'm happy to see you take steps to be happier in your life. That's what I wish for you and hope to be able to contribute.

This one's really hard to write because it implies: I agree that you had to leave me and I'm glad you're with an OM that makes you happy. As much as I want to DB, it's beyond what I feel, even though I genuinely want her to be happy (with an improved me...). Also, it sounds like I've moved on, I've no interest in getting back with her. Knowing her, she probably doubts that already (she doubted it the DAY I stopped crying and pleading...).

I really really don't know what to write. Time to shine? It doesn't matter because of OM anyway? We're too early in the sitch? She's gone for good? It will be misinterpreted?

And for those tempted to suggest: "Write what YOU want to write", it goes along the line of: please come back, I'm sorry for everything, I've changed, we'll have a great year together, this OM is not for you... ;-)

[Little]

How about just "Happy Birthday!" and leave it at that? It gets the sentiment across but has the added value of being a 180 from what you'd normally do. She can wonder why you were so succinct and mysterious.

[Vanilla]

Love this Little

Could add Happy Bithday, I wish you all the best things on the day and for the whole of the year coming

This leaves 'I am the best thing' unsaid.

Or similar words am sure this can be improved on.

Implying I am still the best.
Vanilla

[Mozza]

Thanks both!

Just "Happy birthday" would be inflammatory. She already complained that I'm curt and avoiding with her, which only reinforces connected behaviors she disliked in the relationship. Also, she sent me a longer message on my birthday, a sign of what she expects.

In the end, I sent her the supportive message. Let's see where that leads.