The intro to her email stated she wanted to schedule a free consult with this mediation group in Dec and would like me to attend. I have not replied and don't plan to at the moment. She asked me this morning when she called the girls if I got her email. I answered that I didn't want to discuss it right now, I'm driving our kids to school.
I think I got 2 hours sleep last night, maybe.
This is not the life I wanted for my girls.
Do not give up no matter how dark it gets or hopeless it seems, right?
Me 47 - W 35 M 9 - T 10 2 Daughters - 7 & 9 Discovery of EA- 8/4/14 S - 8/5/15 D mentioned - 9/11/14 R & Piecing - 3/17/15 Regard one another as more important than yourselves. - Philippians 2:3
Jefe, your using DB as a weapon! Something about your attitude and posts strike a nerve with me. I can't put my finger on it but do you think that maybe your wife feels it too and maybe that's hurting your situation?
I am not trying to be negative or mean but I am not going to sugar coat it because that's not my style... (To me) you come across as self righteous, arrogant and condescending. You seem to want to punish your wife with guilt for leaving a marriage that wasn't happy.
Yes, the affair is WRONG but as Starsky once said, he was able to forgive because he made mistakes too and it wasn't for him to judge whose mistakes were worse.
I am rambling now but I just wanted to give you my point of view..... fwiw
Me 47 - W 35 M 9 - T 10 2 Daughters - 7 & 9 Discovery of EA- 8/4/14 S - 8/5/15 D mentioned - 9/11/14 R & Piecing - 3/17/15 Regard one another as more important than yourselves. - Philippians 2:3
It was 7am at that point - now 5.30pm and just back from work! Found my notes now. So, for the drama triangle, we first discussed the 3 points of the triangle when they appear negatively:
Persecutor - attacking, critical, angry Victim - doesn't feel 'safe' enough to ask for what they need - manipulates Rescuer - steps in and acts on your behalf - rather than letting you do it
When people are in one of these states, conversations/interactions don't tend to happen in healthy, straight and direct ways. Often the persecutor will talk in terms of - you did this, you never do that, you always do this etc. The 'victim' won't be direct and assertive, and may use 'ploys' instead of just asking for what they want. The rescuer is a 'fixer' who doesn't let others grow, take risks and make their own mistakes - but takes things from people and does the things for them.
The more positive roles on the drama triangle would be:
Potent (to replace persecutor) - able to have a straight conversation and ask for what they need or want. Vulnerable - able to express how they feel in a direct way. I feel sad about this, I felt lonely. Responder - leaves the problem with the other person - "I can see you feel upset about this. Is there anything you want from me."
The positive roles are more adult states instead of persecutor (critical parent), victim (child) and rescuer (nurturing parent.)
I haven't read it, but the counsellor recommended 'Games we play' by Eric Berne.
And the message was that often 'simple' changes in how you express yourself can move us from - say - victim to vulnerable. But these can make a big difference in how we relate to others.
Hope this is helpful to someone! Toots :-)
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Yes, Toots, I think I will get some use out of it.
Twin, I have been really reflecting on what you said.
"self righteous, arrogant and condescending" I am an alcoholic. I am all of those things. You also left out selfish, manipulative, jelous, and a host of other charicter defects that I am guilty of. I am aware of it, working on it and How I wish I could make it all go away overnight.
I don't want to punish my wife, I have forgiven her already. I own a huge majority of the blame here. Hope414 has most certainly been calling me out on my self righteous indignation. I am doing the best I know how to do. I welcome 2x4's because I genuinely want to fix myself and save my marriage.
Thank you for taking time to respond.
Me 47 - W 35 M 9 - T 10 2 Daughters - 7 & 9 Discovery of EA- 8/4/14 S - 8/5/15 D mentioned - 9/11/14 R & Piecing - 3/17/15 Regard one another as more important than yourselves. - Philippians 2:3
The intro to her email stated she wanted to schedule a free consult with this mediation group in Dec and would like me to attend. I have not replied and don't plan to at the moment. She asked me this morning when she called the girls if I got her email. I answered that I didn't want to discuss it right now, I'm driving our kids to school.
I think I got 2 hours sleep last night, maybe.
This is not the life I wanted for my girls.
Do not give up no matter how dark it gets or hopeless it seems, right?
Mine did the same ... booked the scheduled meeting, I just told her it was not what I wanted and went along with my day. When the scheduled date came up .. I was there on time. We went in and talked about what they had to say. I can not speak for W ... but it just felt like a Divorce Drive Thru. Oh and the fact they have Plan A, B and C depending on how much you have to split up, or how many hours they think it will take to get to an agreement.
After my W stopped me in the parking lot and asked me what I thought, I kindly said I thought I was hungry and knew S was, so I am going to take him out to dinner. Oh .. about the meeting ... not what I want and I do not want this ... it has not been brought up since. Granted the $$ aspect helped .. plus the fact she did some research and realized the amount I give her currently would drop significantly if we were to D or Mediate.
You have good advice ... don't take the bait ... stay the course.
Ok, CG. That is extremely helpful and valuable information. Thank you.
Me 47 - W 35 M 9 - T 10 2 Daughters - 7 & 9 Discovery of EA- 8/4/14 S - 8/5/15 D mentioned - 9/11/14 R & Piecing - 3/17/15 Regard one another as more important than yourselves. - Philippians 2:3
I have ZERO evidence, I mean none, but I just feel in my gut she has been staying the night over there and they are sexually active. It would explain some of the odder behavior and withdrawing lately. What can I do? Nothing. It's just all conjecture.
Don't go by your gut feeling.
Last spring I was going out to the jazz club one Saturday night and went by the RH to see if my W's car was there - it wasn't. I just had a gut feeling she was with OM and my mind started its imaginative storytelling. So I sent a text asking if she wanted to join me at the jazz club. Lo and behold 5 minutes later she replied yes. She had been at a women's group meeting with friends and met me at the jazz club 15 minutes later.
Ever since then I don't trust my gut feelings as much. The jealous mind can really play tricks on you. Don't buy into it. If you have no evidence then practice thought stopping. Don't even venture down that rabbit hole - it'll drive you loco.
Give her the benefit of the doubt. Did you ever think that maybe she just enjoys having a bit of freedom to have fun and some camaraderie with friends after having spent years tied down raising young children. Just a thought.
It's a problem of misperceptions on both your parts. Looking at the world through different paradigms. And the only way you'll get a better understanding of her point of view and her paradigm is to ask her how she feels about things and then just listen without judgement. Then retreat to parse what she said and try to build an image of her worldview so you can start to see things more from her perspective. That's just a starting point.
Last edited by PeterV2; 11/21/1403:48 AM.
M: 59 W: 53 M: 9 yrs T: 14 yrs No kids together but D30(hers), S27, S24, D21(all 3 mine) W moved out 11/18/2013 D-Day 12/14/2013 W moved back home 12/1/2014
1. I have tried to be honest with my kids as much as is appropriate. For me that means acknowledging my sadness and validating theirs. Assuring them constantly that H loves them too (I know there were times they doubted me, but I think that time has passed.) telling them I don't know what's going to happen but that I know it's all important and that I'm doing the best I can.
2. You can't tell your W how they feel. But you can try to give them the tools to be honest. In my house, two things made the difference to my H. The first was, S8 admitted he wanted to talk to a C, and he brought the resources he got to my H as well as me. That seems to have gotten my H thinking. The other was, D11 crossed some of H's boundaries (for once) that perked him up into thinking like a parent again.
You MUST let go of the idea that the kids will guilt your W into coming back. They won't. Maybe they can penetrate the fog enough that she'll start meeting their needs better. That would be a very good thing. And you have to do whatever you can to help them feel secure and loved in their current environment, without blaming anyone for the state of their environment. That's loving.
Me42, H40 D12, S8, S7 A revealed: 7/13 Sep 4/14; Agreed to D 1/15
Wow, Peter. That's good stuff right there. I have had more insightful things fall into my lap today than I can count. It's a direct answer to a prayer this morning. God is good.
Me 47 - W 35 M 9 - T 10 2 Daughters - 7 & 9 Discovery of EA- 8/4/14 S - 8/5/15 D mentioned - 9/11/14 R & Piecing - 3/17/15 Regard one another as more important than yourselves. - Philippians 2:3
"You MUST let go of the idea that the kids will guilt your W into coming back. They won't. Maybe they can penetrate the fog enough that she'll start meeting their needs better. That would be a very good thing. And you have to do whatever you can to help them feel secure and loved in their current environment, without blaming anyone for the state of their environment. That's loving."
I actually thought I let go of that idea long ago, but I guess if I just asked that question, I didn't. I agree with RPP sometimes, though on the craziness of the entire situation.
Thank you Maybell.
Another thing I hear a lot of people talk about on these boards is how they finally get to do what they wanted to do now, or watch what they want now, or decorate a room the way they choose.
I'm starting to wonder if there is something wrong with me. I was content with my marriage. I was an ass, but I was content. I have no burning desire to go changing this all around. Guess I should have done a mush better job of expressing my contentness. Just thinking out loud.
Me 47 - W 35 M 9 - T 10 2 Daughters - 7 & 9 Discovery of EA- 8/4/14 S - 8/5/15 D mentioned - 9/11/14 R & Piecing - 3/17/15 Regard one another as more important than yourselves. - Philippians 2:3
