Busting this Divorce - Separating

[HPoirot]

HP
Sending the "game changer text" required a lot of courage and faith. This seemed to turn a corner for you. Whilst analysis is very important and for the immediate future working on yourself is absolutely vital for yourself this now shows that you are open for change and if you want it this can happen with more ease.

Breathe.

You made a big major shift by sending that text. In 12 steps we call this acceptance of change. A desire to move forward. Crucial to repair and recovery.

A time when HP can feel proud of HP.

Reflections
Vanilla

Thank you so much Vanilla for your kindness. I really do appreciate your lovely posts here and I will do better at making my changes and breathing as you suggest.

[HPoirot]

Yes 25 this is my latest thread. My other thread kept growing as I started this new one. Crazy times.

"Just have to trust the DB approach to ending it. "

There's one important thing you need to understand. There is no "DB approach". DBing means to do what works. Even if you didn't have the DB book, you should be doing that any way. DB is not a ploy. It's building yourself back up after the devastating news of your M potentially ending and learning how to understand your W and where she's coming from.

It still is up to YOU to determine what to do and when to do it.

Yes of course you are right MrBond. Through the last couple days I was more focused on W's reactions and my ploys than on becoming a better me. I do see, though, that I incidentally got in some work on myself... my surprise GAL adventure, my boundary setting attempts, trying to stay calm and not quitting after making a mistake, and better poise dealing with W face to face under stress. Small improvements and I am determined to do more building on myself and more understanding of W.

While it's true that OM is not the cause of the M breakdown, per se, introducing him into a troubled situation as a fix on her end hardly helped things.
And most women would not be walking away from their M unless Fantasy Man was there to cushion the fall.

So yeah. His presence IS significant and cannot be discounted by her.

Hello GG. Again thank you so much for your support in my crisis yesterday. I'm so tired now of OM watch but yes I agree his presence stops any movement of W in my direction.

I just read the same comments you read, and then you reached a conclusion that for ME, did Not follow.

IMO, GG did NOT say "his presence stops ANY movement of w in my direction".

IN fact, I read her previous comments a lot differently. Same for Wonka's....don't negate the positives!

Catch yourself being negative, b/c it's not serving you well OR your situation. I urge you to watch yourself for this trait popping up and giving you miscues often.

Don't want to beat a dead horse but this does trouble me b/c it's a pattern of yours that you either are not noticing and or you don't think needs any adjustment.


If I bring him up, she just say "he's not the issue" as she did the first day so it's not worth it to do again. Lesson learned. I need to get back to building better me now.

Even wonder if your wife is telling you what she thinks is true? And might she be right?

YES, While OM made her departure from your marriage, EASIER, (so would a million bucks)

it's NOT the same as being the cause of it AND it's NOT saying that she cannot or will not change her mind until if and when he leaves her. I have seen MANY adulterous spouses choose their spouse and then return. In fact, isn't that what YOU did after your affair?

Did your OW have to leave for you to return? Even if so, its' not fair to apply that to your wife, is it?

--

Neither of you put enough into THIS marriage or relationship, and in your case you had a previous affair with your "epic love".

Yet somehow you still want to be married to THIS woman. Right?

So why is it impossible for you to imagine her having the same experience/discovery on her end?

That is an excellent point. I see it would take a lot of confidence in myself and my future either way to simply think this way. That's what better me would think.

Start BEING the better you and STOP waiting to feel like it. "Externals" can create internals. Meaning, you can engage in new different behaviors that create the emotion you seek INSTEAD of waiting to feel it first. (That's a crap shoot).

Please watch the TED Talk videos on changing how we think/are. One is by Amy Cuddy on "Faking It til You Become It" and the other is something about Positive Psychology by shawn Achor.

Don't poo pooh these^^ b/c they are both profound and empirically supported with great data.

They only last 20 minutes and can be, literally the start of a life change.


I'm getting closer to that sometimes when my head is clear and I'm feeling successful. Yes, I can just feel successful more often and then I could just surrender to this idea.

Also, work on your tendency to radiate neediness. Forgive me if that stings, but at times you simply reek of being needy. Like you have to have someone, (maybe anyone), on your arm, and or paying attention to you

or you can't/won't feel good about yourself. Like your self esteem comes from others and not yourself.

No need to apologize... I see very clearly how needy I become in reaction to W's actions and lack of affection.

If I got this right, this^^ is you blaming her for YOUR self esteem issues and Your neediness. Catch yourself pretending to own something (while in reality you don't.)

I think your wife could have been excellent to you, & you might still have wandered with your OW from your past. Check the double standards at the door.

On one hand, your wife "caused" your low self esteem which indirectly places the blame for your prior affair, on HER as well. However, for HER affair, you played no role and it's all or mostly on her...and the role you may have played is explainable and defensible b/c of other things she did "TO" you, correct?

HP, you can't have it both ways, even though you sure are trying to.
You SEEM to be saying she is to blame for your neediness AND she is to blame for your prior affair, AND she's also to blame for her affair...

What do you believe you are solely responsible for in the m, that isn't good?

I hope you see my point.



I see how all this has highlighted my need to not be alone again. I fact, I can honestly say now I'm grateful for this experience to work on this. I see for years I thought I was an independent person b/c I thought I didn't need anyone. But it was always my dependence on my W that I was leaning on. She got tired of carrying me and she won't have me again if I can't stand on my own. She even said she was afraid to leave me b/c she felt I would fall apart. So far I have struggled but not fallen apart completely . I can do much much better though... not just hiding my neediness but just not having it.

IF you believe she will not choose you or your marriage over OM, can you tell us why that is so?

I know why... because I believe he is solid in his confidence. I've seen his profile on line... I know who he is. He is successful in his mind and so he is internally happy.

Again you are following the belief that if certain External conditions are met in your world, THEN you can be happy. But that's not how life works. Otherwise the poor would be miserable and the wealthier would be happy but that's not the case often.

Let's invert that^^ sentence to read "He's internally happy, so he is successful in his mind". B/C I think that's 1) more likely AND 2) in his control.

If you are counting on external validation ("Success") to validate you "SO" that you can be happy, you are mistaken.

^^^THIS means you are powerless...b/c storms or economic factors or wars or politics will "STOP" you from being happy -- IF you are depending on those other "Conditions precedent" to be happy.

Just BE HAPPY, and you will be. Why? How? B/c you are going to remind yourself that you are healthy and free and a father with healthy children, who is employed and in our freedom loving nation. And those factors just placed YOU in the top 10% of men, globally.




One of his first emails to W was his resume. It is impressive. He has a high visibility job. He sent W a recording of a (confidential) financial conference he did to impress her. He knows to show her his belief in his ability and how that shows up in the world. He likely likes himself and believes in what he does. While my resume is impressive and my work affects millions and enables millions for the company I work for, I have not believed in my work. I am not impressed or excited by the results of my work. I do not believe in or am engaged with in the company I work for. Before now, I would work all day lazily in my bathrobe. W said a couple weeks ago, when I was a consultant with my own business (when she met me), I was energetic, interesting, and impactful. She's all about impactful. OM is a Who's Who board member type. A social person. And he's older. W likes men who can be father figure like. She used to call me Daddy when we really ML (I never liked that btw). That's where I must to get back to... for my own mental health. Just being impactful in my thoughts, attitude, appearance, and life. It starts by me making choices to be happy.

You did a TON of mind reading, and often you threw yourself under the bus here^^^, but you finished strong, with a simple TRUE statement.

Make the choice to be happy. Aristotle said "happiness is a virtue" b/c he knew that we have to make it happen. Happiness AND LOVE do not land in our laps. We must choose to create both in our lives.

Hello 25. Yes my post last night was very negative. I have noticed how negative I get. When I do better, like now, I reread my posts and edit out my negative words. I notice that when I write positive I feel stronger. I didn't do that last night. I know I have to work to feel positive especially now.

And yes OM is not the issue, he's the symptom. My W is right. I have felt frustrated and angry because I believe we can't get to the issues in our M with her in an A. I know this frustration shows. I can let it go so, eventually, I can feel truly happy. The simple thing to do is, as you say, just be the better me.

No, my OW did not have to leave for me to return to my M. Even so, I want to can be fair to my W... to just relax and let her go through her discovery... to give her the space she wants... to be fine either way. I know logically all those things are the best way to go. I want to can really embrace all those things for her, the survival of our M, and my sanity. (Deleting all the negative words I said here.) So I just have to.

I do see your point about how I seem to blame W for everything. I'm thinking I feel complete responsibility for my neediness, my A, and my issues that made W no longer want me. But I can also see how I do also blame W. I see I don't want all my crap to be only my fault. So then I do focus on her changing (her mind) while I'm thinking I'm doing the changing. I am having trouble there. So I'm back to just be the better me. How would better me treat W? He would be a good neighbor because he is. Poise, class, dignity. How would better me feel good right now? Just get busy on the work that needs doing b/c you feel great when it's done. Just enjoy your day. Make it a fun game to find a way anyway to enjoy your day.

Yes that rant on OM was very bad. I was writing about myself and my self doubt. I know my happiness must come from me not external things. It starts by me making choices to be happy.

I'm watching the TED talk videos now.

Thank you 25. I know I can be successful here because I can.

I do love myself and there's a lot to love.

[HPoirot]

Journaling...

Today going OK.

Forced myself to do my cold shower routine this morning. That helped PMA.

Solved a work problem today... but it took 3 days when I should have been done in 30 minutes. That's the last time that happens. I can do better.

Success keeping PMA... had some very hopeless feeling about my sitch that I fought through. Remembering it's vital to disconnect from the outcome here. Think I'll go outside for a walk.

Texting from W continued a little. She texted where she is in the city she's working in today in case of emergency she said. She has never done that before.

Almost immediately after she texts... "I hope you are feeling OK. I know this is a really awful time. I am so sorry."

Noted my very negative feelings on that last text.

I do not respond to either.

I gave my DB effort 6 months... end of April next year... then I reassess. There's a lot I can do to be a better me in that time. I know how to act living with W while she's in her A. Friendly neighbor. Polite. Upbeat. Busy with life. Great Dad to our boy.

Can I do any more connection love language now that we're here? No b/c self respect.

Focus on me. Feel better.

I can do this.

[Wonka]

HP,

You sound better today. Whew.

Can I do any more connection love language now that we're here? No b/c self respect.

Do you know your W's LL? Any idea?

How about yours?

[Wonka]

Oh and one other question. When is your W returning back from her trip?

[HPoirot]

Hello Wonka. Thank you again for your script. I'm happy with less texts/phone calls from W. I'm looking forward to getting that right with her in person.

Her LL are words of affirmation and quality time.

Mine are physical touch and words of affirmation

Before my OM boundary day, I did work on quality time before bed and made sure to listen closely, validate, and praise her which she seemed to enjoy. Now that she's moved to the couch, I've been ignoring most of her communication the last few days, and OM is out in the open again... I don't see how to keep re-connecting with her. Is that possible or is it better now to make myself less available all around? I'm now going with friendly while less available b/c I'm as if moving on and b/c self respect. For example... "Better take the bus," when she asks for a ride to work.

She comes back tomorrow at noon.

[Wonka]

Ok. Time to prepare for the next step in your journey.

First of all, keep the LL's in your back pocket for the time being. Now is not the time to use them while W is in a full-blown A with the OM.

Let's review what transpired over the last few days.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
W: Now she texts... "Would you still like to go to counseling?"

HP: Ok sent this text... "W... I have decided there will be no counseling as long as you're still in contact with OM. As I said before, I'm not willing to continue to live in an open marriage. I am willing to go to counseling with you if you've broken ALL ties with OM. We have some decisions to make here."

HP & W Exchange: Then she came upstairs into our room where I was working. She asks... "Can you give me a ride to the airport or should I call a cab."

I say politely, "Better call a cab." I always drive her to the airport.

W: So she texts me... "This is not about him. I think you know that. At any rate, I think separating is best... as I have said all along. So yes we have decisions to make. When I get back maybe we can sit down and talk?"

HP: If you want to separate, I will not stand in your way. Sure, we can talk when you get back here.


W: Now I'm here with her text response... "Separating doesn't mean we don't work together or go to counseling."

HP: Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I think it's best to hold off on texting until you get back and then we can discuss some of the issues you raised. You are correct that our focus needs to be on our son. Again, thanks.

HP & W Exchange: She called earlier. I did not answer. She texted me to have S11 call her. I did.

Now, she just texted me "how is S11?" I didn't answer immediately.

She texts "Can you please just let me know?"

I say ... "Good. Eating stew. Subdued but not sad."

She texts back a note about his meds and "Thanks for replying. I will not text again."

HP & W Exchange: Texting from W continued a little. She texted where she is in the city she's working in today in case of emergency she said. She has never done that before.

Almost immediately after she texts... "I hope you are feeling OK. I know this is a really awful time. I am so sorry."

Noted my very negative feelings on that last text.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What were the negative feelings on the last text? Could you please post it here so we can help you better?

[Wonka]

Do you and W each have your own car or share only one family car?

Here's a question that I want you to ponder and take time in answering.

-What kind of person do you want be to W when she returns? (And how does that line up with your own core values?)

[25yearsmlc]

Just so I'm clear on the GOAL here, why are you ignoring her texts (which not replying to them, is)?

Remember to act in accordance with your goals, and NOT in accordance with how you feel at a given moment.

Okay?

[HPoirot]

Almost immediately after she texts... "I hope you are feeling OK. I know this is a really awful time. I am so sorry."

Noted my very negative feelings on that last text.

Wonka... my immediate feeling was "FU AND YOUR F***ING CONCERN WHEN YOU ARE DOING THIS TO ME!!!!"

I know logically that my anger and stress are my problem and that I'm creating my pain and with consistent effort and practice and can choose to let it go and I need to do just that before tomorrow. I also know that her actions are not about me or anything to do with me... they are about her and what she is going through.

Does that help you?