Thanks, Bravo. I am definitely proceeding cautiously. One of my big hang-ups is trust -- trusting that the positives are real and not manufactured, trusting that they will continue even as we fall back into the status quo (separation). Whatever this experience is good for, it's at least teaching me never to take this R for granted again.
Was just reading your sitch. I'm so happy for you that things look better for your R. It's great to see that DB can make a difference. Please keep (cautiously) fighting!
Me: 44 W: 45 S: 11 Married: 15 Together: 18 BD: 9/29/2014 OM discovered: 10/16/2014 I left her behind: 12/14/2014
Things are continuing to improve over here. We had an incredibly powerful MC session on Tuesday where the MC challenged my H to accept responsibility for withdrawing due to hurt instead of treating me with love and grace. He said that he accepts responsibility, but I don't know if the full weight of that has sunk in yet. In the meantime, he is continuing to be more available to me and to be more open about his needs too.
I admit that I am still incredibly anxious and very distrusting of my H's intentions, though. I mean, the week before BD (after he had already made his plans to move out) he told me that he WASN'T planning to leave and that he was never going to hurt me again the way he had before. So, I'm (understandably, I think) gun-shy.
I told the MC that I am trying to let my H's words work for him and not against him. For example, my H told me a few weeks ago that he is committed to me. I told the MC that I am trying to trust that and when H says or does something that seems inconsistent with commitment to me I remind myself of what he said. The MC very adamantly said, "No Elsa, you need to ask Mr. Elsa* for clarification. You have to have these conversations." I turned to H and asked him if I could do that and have it really be okay -- because my impression is that he views that as challenging him, telling him he's not trying hard enough, or trying to control him. H said yes (as long as I don't do it at 10:30pm, which we all had a good laugh about). We ended up testing it out last night when I was struggling to trust something he said, and his response was perfect. He even told me, "That's what we're supposed to do -- clarify." I think the problem is that I've heard this before from H, but in reality I don't think it's his nature and I don't know that he's willing to fully embrace a different way to be in a relationship.
I have a ton of thoughts. I'll come back and post more later.
*I'm pretty sure he's Kristoff, but it's possible that he might be Hans so I'm going to avoid giving him a name for now.
I just had an interesting conversation with H. He's on the West Coast for a conference this week, and he called this afternoon to check in as he promised he would.
H was telling me about his day and his plans for tomorrow (sharing details about his life! what a positive sign) and he mentioned that he is staying with his cousin and he will check into the hotel tomorrow. Apparently, the conference doesn't start until Sunday so these first few days are just for "vacation." Only he didn't mention that before now, and when I asked him a few weeks ago if he would be seeing his cousin during his trip, he'd said, "I don't know. Probably."
I really did not want to get into R talk while he was gone. That was a 180 that I really wanted to commit to. However, H sensed a change in my tone and asked me what was wrong. We are supposed to be working on emotional honesty (i.e., no rug sweeping) so I answered honestly. In addition to feeling misled about his plans, I told him that knowing that he has time to go on a vacation when he complains that he is too busy at work to make time for working on our R makes me feel like I'm not a priority (and work is just an excuse).
H stayed calm and didn't get too defensive. He apologized for giving me the wrong impression about his plans and said that he feels like he is trying to show me that I'm a priority in other ways, but he understands where I'm coming from. He also said that he thinks he should be able to spend a few days with his cousin, and I told him that I definitely agreed.
Then he asked me if I would forgive him for hurting me. I told him that I didn't know that he needed to be forgiven because I didn't think he'd done anything "wrong" per se, just that I was filtering what he did and said through my own issues. H asked if I would forgive him anyway because he wants to make forgiveness a more prominent part of our R. He said that we've never tried asking for and giving forgiveness in the moment, and he thinks it will help.
So, I agreed to forgive him. Then I asked him to forgive me for disrupting the calm between us, and he said that he forgives me too.
H then went on to say that he feels like we have been doing really well lately and that's where we "need" to be, and he really hopes that I can see this as just a bump in the road. I told him that it feels very minor on my end, but since I don't know exactly how he feels there's always a little bit of anxiety there for me. H promised that he was okay and said that he felt it was a good sign that we were able to talk out an issue in the moment and not fall apart. (The whole exchange only lasted for about 10 minutes.)
So, a great exchange but I'd be lying if I said that I didn't feel apprehensive that he is just placating me again until he drops another bomb. How in the world am I supposed to get over that feeling?
Elsa, so great to hear things moving in a positive direction for you and Mr Elsa. I think it is completely normal for you to be feeling apprehensive. Trust that go away with time as you both learn to interact differently and trust each other again. It sounds like you are both working hard to make this happen. Keep going!
H 37 Me 36 Together 15 years Married 5 years No kids BD Apr 2014 H moved out 2 Jun 2014
Thanks for the encouragement, G. We stumbled a bit last week and are still trying to find our footing, but we're both still working hard.
The stumbling block that we keep coming back to is this:
1. H does or says something GOOD that is contrary to something he said or did during the past year. (For example, H agrees to forgive me for some minor transgression.)
2. I accept and appreciate the change but then start to worry that I'm just being placated (because that's what H did right before he left).
3. I reach out for explicit confirmation or reaffirmation that what I'm seeing or hearing is real. H either plays along for a while OR immediately pushes back. Either way, it ends up blowing up in my face.
Now, when I explained this to H last night, he said, "Then why do you keep sabotaging us?" My response was honest -- (1) I don't know how to build trust without seeking the reaffirmation, and (2) I feel blamed by his perspective, because I don't think he's fully accepted his role in the interaction when he says that I'm the one doing the "sabotaging."
H has never apologized to me for lying before he left. I mean, he's said that he was sorry for hurting my feelings, but that he didn't know another way so he doesn't regret it and can't promise* that he won't do it again. I think I need him to accept wrongdoing in order to move forward. I mean, how do we re-build a marriage when one spouse thinks it's okay to lie about Big Stuff if he sees no other options.
I told H last night that I can't see us reconciling without that piece. H said that we could talk about it at MC on Thursday. In the meantime, do you think I am asking too much?
(*H has a really high standard for promises and won't make one at all unless he's absolutely certain he'll be able to keep it.)
Hey, Elsa. Seems like (3) is a cheese less tunnel, no? Somehow I think you are going to have to find it within yourself to trust this process and not look to him to reaffirm. If reconciliation is your goal, then think hard about how you can let go of some of your expectations (like needing an apology) so as not to create an obstacle that your H can't climb over. Those things are under your control. Don't leave it to your H to figure out ways to get over his obstacles.
I wonder if there is any sense moving your thread over to piecing? There's not as much traffic there but there are a few people (vets included) who are a little further along than you and they might have experienced these feelings and figured out ways to deal with them.
H 37 Me 36 Together 15 years Married 5 years No kids BD Apr 2014 H moved out 2 Jun 2014
I hear what you're saying, but at the same time, I don't want reconciliation at all costs. I need my dignity far more than I need him, and I don't know that I can keep my dignity and stay with someone who doesn't accept responsibility for lying. I'm not saying that it's definitely a dealbreaker or that I'm about to give my H an ultimatum, but it's important enough that I'm not ready to write it off.
I've thought about posting in piecing but H and I are still in a pretty tenuous place and I don't know that we're going to stay in piecing, plus what you said about less traffic. Maybe I will add a "piecing" note to my next thread title?
ETA: In looking at your post, I think I conflated two issues. I *think* I can find a way not to seek confirmation and to find trust in other ways. I don't know that I can or should let go of my expectation viz a viz an apology.
