Hi GGG(G), Something you posted really hit a nerve with me and my W's sitch. The part about he was supposed to "make" you happy.... Recently my W posted a quote on FB about how "wrong" it is for someone to expect you to live your life to "make" them happy. The thing is, I never expected nor asked her to do anything of the sort. On B-day W said "I'm miserable, you're miserable, we should just get a D". Thing is I wasn't miserable at all. Confused by the way she had been acting yes, upset that she couldn't even say I love you anymore, yes, but NOT miserable. She projected that feeling onto me. I really think she felt that she couldn't do what was needed to have a good R and was angry because she felt like I was unhappy as a result. All I wanted was a normal M and family. A W that actually wanted to spend time with me and the kids, be intimate once in a while. She would do things with her "friends" and feel like I was upset about it but I wasn't. All I wanted was her to do things with me as well. I think she knew she was destroying our M, felt badly about it so turned it all back onto me as MY fault. Expecting her to just have a normal give and take R turned into, in her mind, my asking for too much. Every little thing I said she turned into some kind of complaint against her. If I said "I wish you didn't have to work late Friday night" became me "complaining" about her when it wasn't. I wasn't saying "You are working late on purpose" or "If you loved me you wouldn't work late" but I really think that was what she heard in her mind. If someone else were to say to her "You're spending too much time at the office. You should spend more time with the family", she wouldn't get angry at them. She saw it as them being concerned. If I were to say it, it became an accusation, a dig on her. I truly think many MLCers do this.
We know what we meant when we said things that they took totally wrong but their minds are so messed up they heard something totally different. I think that is a big part of why we turn into such "bad guys" in their minds. They feel so inadequate, so unhappy in their own skins, they project those same feelings onto us. The worst part is there is no way out of that sitch. If we were to say "why don't you come to bed early so we can cuddle" because we love them and want to spend time being close, they hear "You never want to just cuddle with me, what's wrong with you". Overcoming the fact that what they heard wasn't reality but their own projections may just not be possible. It doesn't help that, if they can blame us, it takes away their own guilt either.
I really think that even if they start to see the LBS for who they really are, they have to start to realize that we really weren't the evil people they saw us as but also if that is the case, they had no "reason" to do the things they did! First they have to start to understand that we really aren't horrible, then they have to come to terms with what they did and the pain that they caused the LBS. I think that's why so many just aren't able to do it.
That may be where GUBU is now. The "fun and free" life he thought he was going to have didn't work out. He see's you as the fun, sexy, talented person you are. How you are even better than you were before he bombed you. Now he has to realize how wrong he was. He has to understand that he was projecting feelings onto you that you didn't "cause" and he has to realize and make up for all the pain that he caused. At the same time he has to come to terms with the fact that he can't have the life he imagined he would have without you to "hold him back". That's a lot for a rational thinking person to do, let alone someone in MLC!
You are not alone in the looking back and realizing all that you "put up" with over the years. The realization that you may have sacrificed much more than you thought at the time. To wonder if it's worth going back to the R unless it's BETTER than before. I really think that's what is meant when they say it's going to be up the the LBS whether or not there will ever be a R in the end. That is something only YOU can decide in the end.
I would love to hear you play some day, GGG. You sound like a woman of many talents that any man would be lucky to have in his life!
What you said: "I really think that even if they start to see the LBS for who they really are, they have to start to realize that we really weren't the evil people they saw us as but also if that is the case, they had no "reason" to do the things they did! First they have to start to understand that we really aren't horrible, then they have to come to terms with what they did and the pain that they caused the LBS. I think that's why so many just aren't able to do it."
I think this is very true. Although over the last few years, he has tried to demonize me on so many levels, I think it's pretty clear to him at this point that I am nothing like he tried to convince himself I might be. And this I think adds to his guilt and confusion. Because if I really AM a sweet, loving person, who was a good (though not perfect) wife, who is cute and funny and all the rest---then what does that make HIM?
In order to be a "Nice Guy" and still cheat on his wife, he had to find a workaround. And that meant he convinced himself that I deserved his treatment for not being Fill-In-The-Blank. That I had fallen short in "making" him "happy".
That it was ME who contributed to his self-described feeling of being "disconnected" from me, rather than it being he who ignored me, diminished me, turned away from me, and ultimately began what was an unhealthy, obsessive relationship with absolutely the wrong person, one who he essentially used to fuel his own "feel good" chemicals, and one with whom he knew it would never be anything but just that.
That in the pursuit of his own pleasure, he almost lost his job, destroyed her family, gave her a serious STD, and, I recently discovered while deleting old emails from him, he allowed her to believe he was leaving me for her, although he never had any intention of doing so.
He treated her almost as callously as he did me, but my sympathy is limited since it was her choice, and a "choice" is something I never had. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The "fun and free" life he thought he was going to have didn't work out. He see's you as the fun, sexy, talented person you are. How you are even better than you were before he bombed you."
That's an understatement, Matt! He's living in a friend's guest room, has no privacy, is a pariah in his own home, his wife doesn't trust him, he made some huge mistakes, his friends are out of his life, he has lost self-respect, and possibly some of the most important things in his life. He sees me making the most of my situation, and even blossoming. This bothers him. I know it does.
The endless parade of p*ssy that Ho-worker deluded him into thinking was out there for his enjoyment has not materialized. She was a FLUKE.
She was only attracted to him because he was her Boss, the "BIG BOSS", who allowed her to believe he had deep pockets and a spiteful shrew at home, who convinced her she was special because he wanted to get into her pants and play out his more kinky fantasies (while convincing himself he was doing HER a favor by sharing his private parts with her).
He led her to believe he was going to leave me for her, that she could just have MY LIFE, rolling in the dough (that doesn't exist, it was all a sham he put on with her, we're in debt big time!), that she was going to live the Good Life with "Mr. Wonderful", the poor, misunderstood fellow who was trapped in a loveless marriage with an aging hag.
She was attracted to what he represented, because she had major issues of her own; she had been molested by a similar looking man his own age as a young girl, WHICH HE KNEW, but he took advantage of her vulnerability anyway for his own satisfaction... well, it was all lies. Lies to her, lies to me.
And he's alone. More alone than he ever wanted to be. Turns out the fact that he was MARRIED was a turn-on to types like his HWW. Me being his wife gave him value. He was tried and proven. Now he's just another creeper. As a single senior without his own place, a wife he's going to be paying through the nose for in terms of alimony, and a job that could go south any day, well, he's hardly a catch these days. The money-bags cache that he tries to pull off with people is a lie. He can't retire, he'll go broke. He's going to get reamed in a divorce. He's got nothing to offer financially, or any other way, to tell the truth. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
]"Now he has to realize how wrong he was."
I actually believe he is starting to see this. But doesn't know what to do about it. Because he doesn't want to appear "weak", so he can't admit what a huge mistake he's made. As if it would seem "stronger" to continue down a path that leads nowhere rather than turn back.
"He has to understand that he was projecting feelings onto you that you didn't "cause" and he has to realize and make up for all the pain that he caused. At the same time he has to come to terms with the fact that he can't have the life he imagined he would have without you to "hold him back".
I think that "making up for all the pain he caused" is a major stumbling block for him. I have tried to give the impression that I don't expect a giant leap of any kind, that things take time, but I think it's very overwhelming to him.
"You are not alone in the looking back and realizing all that you "put up" with over the years. The realization that you may have sacrificed much more than you thought at the time."
I have. I compensated very much for what I was not getting from him. I made myself "happy". I allowed him to distance, thinking that was what he wanted. Maybe he wanted me to pursue him, so he could feel more loved while he turned away from me. I don't know. That's an unhealthy dynamic I am not interested in, with him or anyone. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So today, it's same old, same old.
But now that I am pretty well detached and disinterested, I am curious to see how this affects his progress.
MIND-READING ALERT! I think I can say that these days, it's pretty clear to him that I am now out of his league. I think this is another barrier to him for R. I'm so much better than I was, and he is a shadow of his former self.
I don't think he feels confident about what he has to offer me, or someone like me. I think he thinks I'm too good for/too much for him. That I have "demands" and "requirements". And I do. That he would be happier with someone less confident, more submissive, and who puts him on a pedestal. Enter HWW.... that's very much what that was about. Perhaps he would be happier with a R like that. Maybe that's just what he needs and all these years he was trying to live up to what I wanted from him and he's just too tired to try any more.
That could be true.
Yet I refuse to diminish myself to make him feel better. I did that in Jr. High when I was still "too smart" and kids really started to make fun of me in a worse way than ever. I changed myself. I stopped getting A+ on tests, quit doing my homework, acted more "stupid". I dressed more slutty, took up smoking. Cut classes.
This escalated to hanging out with losers and deliberately giving the impression that I was dumber and more reckless than I actually was. I am very lucky that it didn't go further than it did, that I didn't end up in real trouble.
I think the reason why that didn't happen was that deep down, I was a pretty good kid.
Looking back, it wasn't worth it, just to be "cool" and have "friends" and have some boy like me.
And I'm not going to do that again to make someone else happy.
H is either going to rise to the challenge, or not.
Time will tell.
---(G)GGG
Me 54 Him 63 M 23 T 29 0 Kids Funny Farm of Rescues 12/12 OW-- 5/13 ILYBINILWY: A denied 9/13 Proof OW: ENDED 2/14 Got D papers on my BD I kicked him out for my sanity 9/14 He wants to "talk"?
He's a bright man, so yes, I think he does. I fear he doesn't believe he is capable. And he may well be right about that, unfortunately.
I have decided that I am not willing to spell it out for him either.
He's going to need to decide what's important, and make permanent changes in himself because it's the right thing to do, because HE wants to be better and to do better as a partner to me or anyone.
I will not ask him to do it for me. I will not ask him to change anything about himself that he doesn't care enough to do. There is nothing to be gained by that. He will only resent me for it, or continue to do hurtful things while getting better at hiding it from me.
If he is unwilling to be the kind of man I need, that's his choice. I will move on. I have given him the best chance I could to allow him to come to some kind of realization.
I'm not "done" yet, but as time goes by I see that a life without him won't be the end of the world. He still has time. If he is interested in a life with me, then he should be doing something about it here pretty soon.
And that ^^^ is me setting boundaries for what I will or will not accept without trying to get him to do anything. The consequence for him failing to get his act together is that I will no longer be in his life.
That's his choice, but the outcome is under MY control.
--(G)GGG
Me 54 Him 63 M 23 T 29 0 Kids Funny Farm of Rescues 12/12 OW-- 5/13 ILYBINILWY: A denied 9/13 Proof OW: ENDED 2/14 Got D papers on my BD I kicked him out for my sanity 9/14 He wants to "talk"?
That seems like a very wise approach - if he's not prepared to make the changes for himself then how could you have faith they are genuine and will stick.
Both mid 30s, 2 young kids BD 7sep14 XW moved on long ago, now living with OM1 D paperwork in progress
Wasn't it Raine's husband who had the moving toothbrush?
Well, it appears that the clothing which disappeared from here a few weeks ago has reappeared.
I saw a few things last week, now I was just down in the area of the basement that H is using as a "closet" and---lo and behold--there are a bunch of clothes hanging there now!
"Things that make you go... 'Hmmmmmmmm'..."
Not just his farm clothes, either. I'm talking ties, shirts... no undies though. That would be too personal.
On the other hand, he doesn't so much as leave a toothbrush here. He actually carries his toothbrush, toothpaste, lotion, etc. back and forth when he stays over. (Note: We buy in bulk, so there are toothbrushes and plenty of paste to be had. As well as lotion, deodorant, contact lens solution... Whatever!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* He is still giving me his whereabouts, why he might be late, etc. He lets me know when he is on his way, hasn't done the "show up unannounced" routine in a few weeks now.
* He texts me "Goodnight" almost every night, and is now initiating little texts during the day, with questions like "How are the pups? Are they frozen yet? It's going to get really cold..." Nothing he NEEDS to ask me.
* He consistently has been sharing about his "writing", now "reading", his bike riding... his plans for the week.
* He asks me my plans (though never about who, I think he's afraid to, so I tell him) and works around them.
* He has been great as far as doing anything I ask, taking care of the animals, and whatever I need. (Yes, I'd like him to do it without my asking but then I remember he's a teenager. They generally don't volunteer.) He is very consistent with being here every day and every weekend unless there is a work conflict and it would be pitch black.
* He has stopped asking the annoying "What time will you leave/return?" question when I go out. Funny too because I was right at the point of saying: "THE SAME DARN TIME AS EVERY OTHER WEEK!!!"
* And, looking back there have been exactly ZERO snarky texts from him in--what--a few weeks now?
I have to think about this aspect ^^^ some more. I have been very careful not to push his negative buttons, so that may be part of the "reason", if there IS a reason. That I have given him no ammunition to react to.
Also, I have been very transparent as to what I'm up to, who I'm with, making it clear that I am GALing in groups, with girlfriends, and that my Farm Boy Toy was here for work purposes ONLY (the visuals and company were just a perk) and that he was not allowed in the house out of respect for H.
(Subtext: No people of opposite gender in the house for either of us. Not cool.)
Since these little things have been spelled out to him, he seems more at ease, maybe less threatened?
Still, I must bear in mind that he might just think "Great! She's keeping the home fires burning, being a good girl, not rocking the boat and not going anywhere with a new fella, so I can keep her on the back burner as long as I want!"
I want to make sure he does NOT get that impression.
What I want to convey is that I am:
1. I am a person of integrity. I have nothing to hide, therefore I hide nothing.
2. I tell the truth, even when it makes me look bad. (Except for the bathroom wall, that was a funny one. I kick a big hole, patch and paint it, and he goes off about a little scratch that had nothing to do with me.)
3. I am not dating, nor do I plan to date until I am emotionally, legally, and spiritually severed from my M, and have no "unfinished emotional business" (to quote Dr. Phil) To do otherwise would be to use other people to make myself feel better at their expense. I will not do that. That said, I am getting to know other men, spending time with them in groups doing activities, and flirting a bit to stay in practice. While making it crystal clear that I am not on the market at this time. I have conveyed this to H as well, in actions, not words.
4. I keep up with my 180s; the things I needed to improve upon anyway. a. I am keeping the (chaotic, disaster zone, no walls, no outlets, no closets or shelves) house as clean and organized as possible. b. I am talking less, and listening more. I am toning it down and letting things go. c. I am more conscientious about money and make sure to validate H for providing for me. d. I don't ask questions, don't pursue, don't push R or "feelings" talk. e. I am dressing better, sexier, make sure I am always well groomed and looking my best. f. I don't complain about ANYTHING, just ask for help if I need it. I am always upbeat. g. I am learning to take care of things without H. h. I modify my voice to be softer, less strident, higher pitched. (It's an Aspie thing.) I take a breath during convos and stay on topic. i. I consistently express my gratitude to H for what he does for me, and validate his feelings. j. I try very hard not to let myself get distracted or overwhelmed. These are two things I wrestle with, along with procrastination. k. I myself model the behavior that I want from H. Kindness, consideration, generosity, respect, being a good listener, being fun, interesting, attractive, easy-going and upbeat, sexy, and appreciative of others, and grateful for all I do have. I keep a PMA and communicate that to everyone I meet.
5. I allow myself to be vulnerable, and to ask him for help if I really need it. I let him see that even though I am capable, I am not immune to feeling sad or lonely, or needing help to get things done. That I do need him.
6. That I will be fine with or without him. That my life is full of wonderful things, and if he wants to ride MY ride, he'll get the benefit of that life.
7. That I am a Kick-A** Friggin' Dancing Goddess of the Goats!
Just an update, while I was counting the shirts and ties he's got down there....
---(G)GGG
Me 54 Him 63 M 23 T 29 0 Kids Funny Farm of Rescues 12/12 OW-- 5/13 ILYBINILWY: A denied 9/13 Proof OW: ENDED 2/14 Got D papers on my BD I kicked him out for my sanity 9/14 He wants to "talk"?
I remember HRM's husband having the traveling toothbrush in the bathroom. If I recall, she moved it few times and he would put it back where he had it. Finally, she just left it alone. We got a good laugh out of that toothbrush activity. Her h never left home the entire time and acted out, but they finally made it through the rough times.
Clothes moving back home? It may be a sign that he's slowly thinking of returning home. But I would not put much stock into my comment until you've seen more activity w/the movement of other items back home. Whatever you do, do not call attention to the clothes. Stay calm and observe.
Continue as you have been. I think you've been doing great. Keep up the good work.
I haven't said one peep about anything, really. I don't ask, don't tell, and don't mention anything weird that he's doing.
I just keep on with my plan.
I observe and stay neutral, like any good Amoeba Scientist.
--(G)GGG
Me 54 Him 63 M 23 T 29 0 Kids Funny Farm of Rescues 12/12 OW-- 5/13 ILYBINILWY: A denied 9/13 Proof OW: ENDED 2/14 Got D papers on my BD I kicked him out for my sanity 9/14 He wants to "talk"?
