Can't stress that enough. Know why? Because you have to live with yourself. I've never been depressed, but I've seen it enough in others. I can tell it would not be fun, nor would I want to be reminded of it nor would I want to see somebody I care about hurting. It would just add salt to the wound.
She is testing in some ways, Cali. And as long as you are not YOU and only YOU there will be no passing the test. Ironically, you may have to lose her to be YOU. Given the last several years, that's not something to fear. Being what you think she wants has not worked has it? Her words aren't much use for you. Heck, she may later say she never said any of that. That's how depression works. Fun eh?
Be YOU. The rest will work itself out.
AJ
Yeah I feel that way too, and I do think I have past a few of these tests as she is more vocal about how confused she is lately ... and I do think I really need to remove myself better. It goes against everything I feel, but I know deep down I must let her get through this .. for her, regardless of where she and I end up in all this .... she needs to finish her journey and I must continue mine. Losing her ... well I already have honestly .. the girl I loved is a zombie and I am not confident she will ever come back .. in many ways its impossible .. the innocence is gone .. so whatever happens the old M, her and me .. all dead. Only a new life awaits .. future unclear but I know I will be better for all this .. that much I can hang my hat on.
Along these lines, Cali , Sunday, at 5:30 am, Stbxw texts. She knows very well I'm not a morning person, especially on the weekends... She wants to know the AD she took, that seemed to be effective, and where I got her the estroven.
I told her just the facts, skipped asking if she's okay.
"Just the facts ma'am"
It was hard, but it's what she wants. She could have waited til Monday and called her ob/gyn who prescribed them.
Imo, you have to lose the "protector" role. She doesn't want it. And it's not helping you detach. If you are truly giving her up to God, then stop, stop the Charlie church stuff, suggestions, etc and truly let God do his work, get out of Gods way, her way, and, your own way.
Wanna know one of the biggest turn offs? Using your new found spirituality to try to coerce your spouse back. Lording it over their heads, that they are wrong and sinners, tearing the familly apart. I am not saying you do this, but it is an easy path to find yourself on... And that is the path of weakness and pride, thinking you know better than God because you found "Jesus" or "the light", etc.
Just a note of caution there buddy...that's all...I see lots of people fall into that self-righteous EZ-button...
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
Cal, I asked that question because I wanted you to really think about it.
If you asked my xh if he thought about me the way he treated me, he would tell you no. Yet, it was there everytime he fixed...that sent me a signal. I know now that is one of his love languages, but, it still made me feel the way it did.
Some of that had to do with my childhood. I was never good enough according to my mother. But some of it did have to do with how he acted.
I am going to be honest with you, your need to protect and fix can seem like that to her.
When I was depressed, I did not recover until I wanted to. Didnt matter what anyone said or did, including my h. It actually kept me stuck in it when he or others kept trying to help.
Along these lines, Cali , Sunday, at 5:30 am, Stbxw texts. She knows very well I'm not a morning person, especially on the weekends... She wants to know the AD she took, that seemed to be effective, and where I got her the estroven.
I told her just the facts, skipped asking if she's okay.
"Just the facts ma'am"
It was hard, but it's what she wants. She could have waited til Monday and called her ob/gyn who prescribed them.
Imo, you have to lose the "protector" role. She doesn't want it. And it's not helping you detach. If you are truly giving her up to God, then stop, stop the Charlie church stuff, suggestions, etc and truly let God do his work, get out of Gods way, her way, and, your own way.
Wanna know one of the biggest turn offs? Using your new found spirituality to try to coerce your spouse back. Lording it over their heads, that they are wrong and sinners, tearing the familly apart. I am not saying you do this, but it is an easy path to find yourself on... And that is the path of weakness and pride, thinking you know better than God because you found "Jesus" or "the light", etc.
Just a note of caution there buddy...that's all...I see lots of people fall into that self-righteous EZ-button...
Yeah, I know I have to give short answers and not the essay form ... funny ... I was always a multiple choice kinda guy ... maybe I will just say "C" aloud and laugh on the inside at my brilliance.
You are spot on with the Protector role ... man I have a new-found love/hate relationship at how you all can see into my soul without even getting off your couch..lol ... kinda $suck$ .. give a guy a break .. lol ... just kidding. I am just amazed how much you all can feel and sense, without me spilling my guts on your therapy sofa like I do in IC, and you are straight to the point and give me my homework .. valuable homework to work on ... I trust you all , and know after this I will owe such a huge debt .. regardless of the outcome.
As far as the self righteous thing... I have been very cautious with that, some time ago her sister mentioned to me to me the W actually really liked this change .. ofcourse I used that intel but quickly realized how that went against everything I was trying to be, I did not find God to win my wife back, He found me. I do not preach to her, if she goes to church with me great, if not .. thats ok too, she knows I go twice a week, I do prefer to take my S, as its something we really enjoy together (Maybe he fakes it .lol... but as far as I can tell .. its something he enjoys and we can share),... but as you said .. I do have to remind myself I have given it to him .. once I do this .. my anxiety drops off the charts.
Thanks for that protector role angle .. you are right .. and I have been that way with her as long as I can remember. Might have fuels the "lesser" than issues now that I think of it aloud .. not sure .. but I am certain its not helping.
Yeah ... I have caught on to that, aswell as others. I have spent a good chunk of my time reading .... guilty of searching for the magic bullet that I can load that would snap my W out of it ... then slowly realized that is not the message at all, no one wants to look in the mirror much, especially when it is so much easier to paint the WAS in bad lighting and say "look how messed up they are... the problem has to be them" .... then you realize .. the WAS may never return, even if they do it will be very different. All we can do is work on ourselves ... and wow ... I did not realize I was such a project...lol
Little update ... not much. Dropped S off this morning, W invited me in but I nicely declined ... wished S a good day, as well as her... and promptly left. I was nice, but need to detach. Its harder to get out of bed in the mornings... paretly because of it being cold .. the other.. well lonliness is setting in, knowing I will be alone for Thanksgivings... still working on getting more social, but trying to do this in the correct scene ... not bars/clubs. I have met some people at church .. not on a hey lets hang out level ... but I have opened up some ... progress .. I was so closed off and it was just W and I for so long .. big mistake ... I do have my sports buddies .. but all married with kids and apparently when you are separated it could be contagious so no one wants to come down with that especially during the holidays .. lol.
So I am mentally preparing for the New Year, I do feel W will push D pretty hard .. this time last year she was completely done with the M, now she is confused according to her, but I still think she will see the D as a way to start 2015 fresh. Will just have to wait and see, I have learned with this MLC, its bad one day and like nothing happened the next.
Hey Cali, Just wanted to 2nd what the others have said about "fixing", especially when your S is depressed. My W was deeply depressed for several years and I went into "fix it" mode, mainly because with 2 young kids at home I HAD to. What my W saw was me "treating her like a child". Where I saw myself "stepping up" when she was "too sick", she saw me telling her over and over again that she wasn't good enough. Just by doing what needed to be done when she couldn't, she saw me telling her over and over she was "damaged". Of course, I never saw her that way, never once even implied that was the case but again, she was depressed and that was how she was thinking.
She has even told me that one of the reasons she "had" to leave was because I "allowed" her to be depressed. By being there for her when I thought she needed me, to her became a crutch that kept her depressed. Of course all the time I was doing this, she never said that was how she felt. In fact she would thank me and tell me how lucky she was that she had me there to help her, that was just a mask while inside she was actually resenting me. This is something they never talk about when you read up on depression. I became an expert on the subject, reading everything i could about the hows and the whys. No where did it say how the fact that you are there to help your loved one get through it can be seen by the depressed person the way that so many WAS's who suffered from depression can see things this way. This is something that so many of us had to learn the hard way! If just asking your W to roll down the window can turn a good day into a several day depressive bout just proves how sensitive the depressed person can be to this.
I think all of us who have lived with a depressed S have made the same mistakes so don't beat yourself up as you are not alone. It's just something that I think is a MAJOR factor in why they feel they "must" totally walk away from the very person who was there for them when they needed them most.
Thank you .. and looking back your words really make alot of sense. I actually did think I was doing the right things and being there for her, but like you said I am completely a crutch, granted I felt that was what a good H should do .. but I see how this is counter productive. Seems everything the past few days has been nudging me to completely let go and let her walk her own journey.
Time for me to accept that, try to watch from as far as possible. Ugh .. this is not easy. But its helps her, and honestly it helps me, I still have "ME" to sort out and find ... I can not do this while giving her the amount of energy I have been.
Been thinking about Thanksgivings coming up, I have the house to myself, a few days off from work, from her ... I think I will cook a nice small spread and just be me for a bit, watch some movies, go for a few rides on the bike, clean/organize ... just focus on things I need to get done. 4 days off ... its a welcomed break from the MLC-ville I have been stuck in.
Cal, I wanted to just tell you about letting go. I understand the feeling that if you let go, you feel like you will lose her.
What helped me was thinking of it this way. She is telling you she doesnt want to be married and you, by your words and/or actions are telling her she is wrong. Picture hanging onto someone's pants leg. They want you off, so they shake their leg. That causes you to hold on tighter, which causes them to shake harder.
You are saying, it doesnt matter what you want, what matters is what I want and I want you. I know its not intentional, but, it is what she is feeling.
When you let go, it gives them an opportunity to figure themselves out without the "noise" of your words in their head.
Letting go is the greatest gift of love. It is saying that you hear her and you love her and honor your marriage so much that you are willing to allow her to walk her journey in whatever way she needs to.
Release the fear, Cal. Leave it in His capable hands. Trust that what is supposed to happen, will.
Cal, I wanted to just tell you about letting go. I understand the feeling that if you let go, you feel like you will lose her.
What helped me was thinking of it this way. She is telling you she doesnt want to be married and you, by your words and/or actions are telling her she is wrong. Picture hanging onto someone's pants leg. They want you off, so they shake their leg. That causes you to hold on tighter, which causes them to shake harder.
You are saying, it doesnt matter what you want, what matters is what I want and I want you. I know its not intentional, but, it is what she is feeling.
When you let go, it gives them an opportunity to figure themselves out without the "noise" of your words in their head.
Letting go is the greatest gift of love. It is saying that you hear her and you love her and honor your marriage so much that you are willing to allow her to walk her journey in whatever way she needs to.
Release the fear, Cal. Leave it in His capable hands. Trust that what is supposed to happen, will.
uR
I know you are right .. and I have let her go ... to a point. What I struggle with is when I do actually start to let her go, she somehow reels me back, this is the cycle I must stop. I know this .... how do I do this, what do I do ... do I just eliminate all time she would like to spend as a family when she feels that need, this is where I am at a loss??. I plan to take S to "x" and let her know .. sometimes I invite , sometimes I do not .. and honestly it does not matter to me if she joins of not.I also know she must do this journey without me...otherwise anything that goes wrong will be my fault rather than her looking inward .. I get that
I let her go last year, I honestly did .. but it was no act of love, more out of anger like "screw you, go have babies with your new BF" kind of anger ... not proud of it but I was angry and hurt and coming to grips with the entire sitch.
So now .. I am trying to figure out how to let her go, pointers welcome .... its tricky with the S, the fact that family is big for her, and of course my issues of fixing and not being able to shut my big fat yapper.
So ... currently, I have been focused on work today, work has been one of the good 180's for me this past year. I quit a job I was at for 17 years (Was miserable for the past 5... not helping the M sitch)One of the sales guys came into my office just returned from Singapore/Hong Kong with the President of the company, said they spent a good deal of it talking shop .... he said the Pres is very happy with me and what I have done, he informed me that this type of talk does not typically happen from him, I was actually honored ... I mean I know I have done well ... but it is nice to hear it 3rd hand.
W was dark yesterday.... as was I ... today seems like more tests, I did not speak with her other than hello, have a nice day this morning .. I was not upset, PMA , just trying to detach and not get sucked in honestly. So then what I have now named the "Test Texts" start. I get a Hi, followed by a notice she has gone back and collected all her expenses since September, she will send me those .... ya know .. just about $2500 worth of things she feels I should be paying for. I waited a bit, and realized... I have been down this road, money is always a hot button topic, I simply said we could discuss this over the weekend when I pick up S and have my information in front of me. I do plan on letting her know I do not believe the amount is fair nor accurate, and she can not just add up 3 months worth and expect payment, I will be kind and try to work with her on this. Then this is followed up by hot button item #2, the holidays, she wants to take him to her brothers for 2-3 days (This I knew about and am fine with) ... and also she wants to plan a trip with him During Christmas ... replied that he would like that .. feel free to plan as I will be working. Then #3, she needs to swap days middle of Dec, a friend of hers has a suprise party for her D, and she wants to take him .. no problem ... I did feel some anxiety because last year she needed me to take him as she went to her company Christmas party with OM, I quickly squashed that in my head ... getting better! ... Then she mentioned if I am planning any surgery I need to do so before the end of the year or it will be more expensive on the insurance ... well .. not planning on that .. so no problem there.
So I now begin letting her go, not easy, but I must do this and allow her to walk the walk she needs. I trust in God, I actually hope she finds her way out, regardless of where it leads. I am honestly tired of the limbo, letting her go is as much for her as it is for me. I was really doing well a few weeks ago before I was sucked into her storm. I do need to develop more friendships. Saturdays now open (No sporst for S) I can do this with the Harley group ... this weekend I will be there taking my bike in for its first service. I need to be selfish for a bit, I realized today .. and uR confirmed it .. W does not want to be married to me, nothing she has said or done shows any difference ... I think at times we all are so desperate looking for a glimpse of hope that when we see it .. we hold on tight ... huge mistake .. as good as it was to feel normal Saturday there was still no spark, no romance ... I have been thinking about how the M was prior to BD, I want to be loved, I actually need that.... I will not settle for crumbs .. I do deserve better. Not looking for it currently .. but I am not going to accept less.
