Ganb8te 2 - WAH - lost in translation

[Zues126]

granb8te, not sure this is good advice, just projecting my feelings on your sitch. I think you have to detach MORE. And allow MORE distance.

Here's the thing about the idea of 'doing what works'...it suggests that you can somehow control the outcome. You can't. Your H may never come back, open the door, or come around. 'Doing what works' is about maximizing those possibilities, but you can't control another person.

I don't think a letter or talking with his friend are good ideas. All I think that will do is send the message to your H that you are still attached to him, and he is not in danger of losing you as a back up plan. I don't see him reading a letter and deciding to close the gap.

I'd be preparing yourself for your life without him, for yourself and for your next R. You don't have to burn bridges. Letting go doesn't mean giving up. It means acknowledging you can't control him, respecting his decisions, recentering your life on you, and accepting what you have been given in your life.

What would you do if you knew he'd never come back? What personal goals would you set? When do you feel you'd be ready to start dating again? Any things you'd need to work on for yourself before you'd feel ready to be in a different relationship?

What's the difference between giving up and moving on? I think giving up means blaming the WAS for the breakdown, stopping your personal growth, and being the same person you always were. I think moving on but using your experiences to become a better person, maybe not the one your WAS wanted exactly but someone that has learned from their failures and has grown from it...I think that is the best DBing you can do at this stage.

Vets, I'd love to know your thoughts on that. This is where I'm at and how I'm viewing it. If I'm off course please correct me and make sure granb8te doesn't listen to me. If nothing else I wanted to bump this thread up

[jim0987]

^^^^ well said Zeus

[LisaB]

Hi ganb8te, I feel badly for you about the lack of contact, answers and closure in your situation. I agree with Zues and think that both reaching out to his best friend and writing him a letter are not the best ideas.

I would recommend maybe asking him again to meet up? Try an activity like we discussed earlier. Maybe a bike ride, a concert or a movie?

It sounds like he is the type to hide from problems and act like an ostrich with his head in the sand when he doesn't want to deal with someone or something. That might be a problem for you getting any sort of movement or answers.

I don't think you should contact his friend or write a heartfelt letter because I think both of those are too much. But Being persistent about spending time together isn't too pushy in this case I don't think. However, as Zues said, it is really all about you and working on yourself. (which you have been doing!) Keep at it, and continue to stretch outside your comfort zone. Maybe some epiphany will come out of that.

You know my situation well, and although I am in regular contact with my WAH, I don't get much from him in the way of answers. I also feel like I want to push and ask him to spend time together and ask what is going on in his head. But I have to constantly remind myself that this is going to happen on the WAS' timetable, not mine. I can't rush it, unfortunately.

Good luck and let us know what you decide to do next.

Hugs, Lisa

[gan]

It's always grand when the weekend feels like it lasts longer than the work week. Most exciting, I'm nearly on top of my Christmas shopping and picked up some fab new artworks for my home at a local street fair.

So I'm back in PMA territory. Thanks Zeus and Lisa for your thoughtful posts - I'm still mulling things over. Actually my IC thinks I should do both - send a letter and contact his friend - but I'm not rushing into anything right now.

[LisaB]

Hi Ganb8te, glad to hear you had a good weekend and are back on the PMA bandwagon. I am too! Funny how the rollercoaster keeps on rolling even when it is not as dramatic as it was at first.

I was just thinking... maybe Zues is right and you just need to keep ignoring him and focusing on yourself right now. I don't think it is really about your H not seeing you as a back up plan because he is not acting like he is trying to keep you around as plan B. He is just cutting you off and retreating to protect himself.

The reason I say maybe you should continue to stay dark is because I was reflecting on your situation while thinking about my previous boyfriend. After we broke up (his idea) he wanted to reunite. I did not. He would pester me and pursue me, it annoyed me every time I heard from him. But then at one point he just stopped calling and emailing me. Anyway, after a few months I realized I had not heard from him at all and it finally made me curious and want to contact him. But it did take a while for me to realize I hadn't heard from him.

I am not a patient person so the fact that it took me a few months to notice is surprising. Now, we didn't reunite, but I did finally start to wonder what he was up to. So what I am saying is, maybe the timeline we are on is not realistic for the WAS. Maybe it just takes them AGES to wake up and notice that you haven't been around in a while. Maybe it just takes a lot longer than we think.

Anyway, sorry for the long story. I am happy you had a nice weekend and I hope this week is terrific!

Hugs, Lisa

[gan]

OK I've been mulling over your questions since you asked, Zeus. Here goes...

What would you do if you knew he'd never come back?

Well, if I knew this for sure, I would probably apply for a job in another country and move there. Ironically it's in H's country and a job I got an interview for 5 years ago but I turned it down because H/we weren't keen on relocating. I don't think I am ready to put this plan into action just yet. Moving 10000 miles away probably wouldn't leave much room for hope on the R front. I certainly wouldn't want it to seem like I've be holding a grudge all this time (I haven't).

What personal goals would you set?

I've always been pretty crap at setting personal goals outside of work. Actually I think we both were…and this was one of our problems (without personal goals it was difficult to support each other in reaching them). I've raised this with IC and we are talking this through.

When do you feel you'd be ready to start dating again? Any things you'd need to work on for yourself before you'd feel ready to be in a different relationship?

In some ways I think I am ready. I'm open to meeting new people and feel emotionally ready to get involved if someone interesting came along. But…I don't think that is compatible with restoring my M. So for now, I am choosing not to date others. We can't file until 12 months after separation (so June 2015). I suspect I won't feel right about dating until after D happens (if it happens), regardless of where I am at emotionally. It's a values thing. It may change.

What's the difference between giving up and moving on? I think giving up means blaming the WAS for the breakdown, stopping your personal growth, and being the same person you always were. I think moving on but using your experiences to become a better person, maybe not the one your WAS wanted exactly but someone that has learned from their failures and has grown from it...I think that is the best DBing you can do at this stage.

Agreed but I prefer to think of it as moving forward rather than moving on. I've made a lot of progress shifting my perspective and finding more balance outside of work. I've confronted some of my holdups that were creating obstacles in our M. I'm managing my anger and generally sending compassion in my H's direction despite not interacting with him very frequently. I still have more to do but I am moving myself forward.

[gan]

Here's the thing about the idea of 'doing what works'...it suggests that you can somehow control the outcome. You can't. Your H may never come back, open the door, or come around. 'Doing what works' is about maximizing those possibilities, but you can't control another person.

Forgot to respond to this point. Actually I don't think I'm operating out of a desire to control my H. To my mind there is a difference between trying to control and trying to influence. I think everyone here is hoping to positively influence the outcome through their actions - PMA, 180s, NC etc. At the very least, they are trying not to negatively influence the outcome. I absolutely did try to control things in our R. That much is clear. Part of this journey for me has been about learning to see H as an independent person who makes decisions based on his needs and wants. I liked the boat analogy in Passionate Marriage. It's an illusion that we are in the same boat as our spouse. More accurately, we're in two separate boats and paddling in the same direction when things are going well. When things are not going well...well you all know what happens. Sometimes we try to steer the other persons boat (control). Part of DBing is - to my mind - about creating conditions where the current is flowing in your direction giving the greatest chance that your spouse will drift on back to your boat (influence).

Lisa - I'll respond to your posts next. For now, it's bed time in the southern hemisphere.

[gan]

Wow. My H's BF, the guy who I was thinking about reaching out to? I just learned that he had open heart surgery to remove a benign tumor from his heart a couple of months ago. He's around the same age as H and has 2 little girls. It was picked up as part of routine screening (he had Hodgkins lymphoma when he was a kid and apparently radiation therapy is a risk factor this this type of heart tumour). Thankfully he is recovering well. What a reality check.

I've emailed with his W about it (we are friends) and will probably send a small get well gift. I feel like I should reach out to my H over this. I'm not sure what to say though and I'm not 100% certain that H knows. Maybe something like:

"I just heard about J. How shocking! I'm so relieved to know he is recovering well. You must have been rattled by the news. Hope you're holding up you ok"

Any thoughts? I really don't want to make H feel bad or guilty for not telling me. Certainly not trying to pursue. Just want to acknowledge that our mutual friend (his best mate) just had a major life threatening experience. I'll verify whether he knows before sending.

[Little]

I wouldn't do it, Gan. I'd absolutely interact with them if you're on friendly terms, but let H find out from them that you've offered your support. No reason to contact him directly.

[gan]

Help me understand why you say that, Little. Why should I not acknowledge that this would have been a total shock to my H?

Sometimes I feel like these approaches venture into un-human territory. Not reaching out to another human being feels completely wrong to me. (For those not familiar with my sitch, I'm not dealing with the stupid texts or temperature checks. We have very limited contact. Maybe once every 4-5 weeks. So I am not exactly over doing it on the reaching out front!)