My MLC Zombie Apocalypse Part II

[ForeverYoung]

I was confused and told her I really did not want to talk about it and ruin a day. Trying to get out of any R talk that was about to happen. Then she explained to me how she felt nothing for me ... was starting to trust me again but after yesterday it just brought back all these horrible memories. I told her that I felt she put me in a box, and just waits for any small thing to remind her of the past just to keep me in that box, I have tried very hard not to be that person anymore, the old Cali is dead, as is out old relationship and old marriage.

Of course you don't want to initiate any R talks, but if she does you listen. I think it's a good sign when our spouse feels comfortable enough to open up to us. Even when it's stuff we would rather not hear.

Unless it's pure spew, you put on your detachment jacket and let her get it out. If she can't do it with you then it will be with someone else.

Best thing we can do is let them know we hear them. And interact in a manner that allows them to feel not judged, but safe enough to continue talking. Can you see how your responses may have stifled that?

Back to the validation cheat sheet for you!

You will SHOW her the new Cali, no more telling her for now.

And her being confused is normal... and good. It means she's not ready to pull the plug on the M, and you have that gift of time for a turnaround. What you do with that time is your choice. Bust On!

[CaliGuy]

Of course you don't want to initiate any R talks, but if she does you listen. I think it's a good sign when our spouse feels comfortable enough to open up to us. Even when it's stuff we would rather not hear.

Unless it's pure spew, you put on your detachment jacket and let her get it out. If she can't do it with you then it will be with someone else.

Ok, well then good .. because I think I did "ok" there. I have not ever brought up R, and have been doing alot better with STFU and listening to her. And I do see her confusion as a good thing ... thought about it the other day thinking .. she has not pushed really hard for D. But hearing her today .. seems to be a push for the new year to have a decision .. seems MLC script from what I read ... like the D will heal her magically.

Best thing we can do is let them know we hear them. And interact in a manner that allows them to feel not judged, but safe enough to continue talking. Can you see how your responses may have stifled that?

Back to the validation cheat sheet for you!

You will SHOW her the new Cali, no more telling her for now.

And her being confused is normal... and good. It means she's not ready to pull the plug on the M, and you have that gift of time for a turnaround. What you do with that time is your choice. Bust On!

I can see that ... man .. this Validation along with the STFU is pretty tough ... baby steps .. I will keep reminding myself on these things .. ya know .. old dog new tricks and all ... I can see how she has a hard time trusting , I have a long way still to go, but I do feel I am at least on the correct off ramp to the right path .. I hope .. lol

I think the changes I have made ... especially spiritually has her confused, some-days I am surprised myself .. but thankful, I know I would never have been able to make any of the changes I have with out God helping me out and showing me the way here and there.
Another change is the family thing, When I told her I wanted S to be with her family (Mine is 1300 miles away) even if that meant me spending the holidays without him, I wanted that for him, and I meant it.

[Mach1]

Thoughts as I am obsessing over the weekends events.

I am not detached
I am to available for her
She is not afraid of losing me .. because I am always right there.
She is going through her depression, I can not help her, can't fix it.
She is confused, I can not help her make a choice.
I am afraid of dropping the rope and losing her ... but I know I have to
She only talks D when she is upset.
I need to get back to my center, I had it ... got reeled back in somehow.

So....how do you change those things ??

How is it advantageous to change those things ??

How do you hold on to those changes once that you make them ??

I can see how she has a hard time trusting , I have a long way still to go, but I do feel I am at least on the correct off ramp to the right path .. I hope .. lol

She has a hard time trusting and believing them, because every time she NEEDS you to be that old Cali, you oblige her with him...

AND....

At some level, you are STILL trying to be the new Cali, to impress her, and fix/win her back...

Instead of just being the new Cali, for you.

And whatever happens...will happen...

All I can ask, is, why do you allow that ???

Cause, until you can understand the why, it will keep repeating...

[CaliGuy]

So....how do you change those things ??

How is it advantageous to change those things ??

How do you hold on to those changes once that you make them ??

I was doing better, then Saturday .. it was just nice and even though I could see the train was still firmly on the tracks I fooled myself into thinking it might stop at my station ... I knew better, this is far from over.

I need to keep pluggin along, I have made so many changes that have held, I do struggle with the new ones just as I did the old, I will keep working, that's how they stick .... and no I am not doing it for her, its for me, I feel better being a better person, I am doing this for me, these are changes that will make me the man I desire to be and I will not stop short of that ... I do accept any change that happens overnight is not a change worth making. The good changes take work, perseverance and faith.

She has a hard time trusting and believing them, because every time she NEEDS you to be that old Cali, you oblige her with him...

AND....

At some level, you are STILL trying to be the new Cali, to impress her, and fix/win her back...

Instead of just being the new Cali, for you.

And whatever happens...will happen...

All I can ask, is, why do you allow that ???

Cause, until you can understand the why, it will keep repeating...

The Old Cali would have erupted with anger .. I have done a good job eliminating that part from my life. I am not putting on a front, I made some big changes ... not to win her back, there have been times over the past year I honestly accepted my M to be over. The changes I have made were because of long looks in the mirror and not caring for what I seen, that's not who I was ... it was who I became over the past few years because of things in my life not going "my" way.

The changes I have made .. the big ones .. have held firm for a good .. 6 months or more. Now .. for me I realize I need to work on the little things, just listening, not fixing, I caught myself yesterday after I apologized once, I let it go .. if she wants to rehash and start bringing up past events (That I have also apologized profusely for in the past) That's on her, I will not rehash and argue just to argue any longer, there is no benefit in it ... That for me .. huge 180 .. and one I intend to hold to ... however its also a new one where I was close to slipping on.

[uRworthy]

Hiya Cal...man, I see you trying so hard...and you are right there...Here's the thing. The changes when they are for you - you dont need to question them. You dont need to wonder or hope. You just be. It is just who you are.

So, about that convo.

So we get in the cars ... I ask her to roll down her window to make sure we are going to the same store ... This evidently is a trigger for her, not sure why/what happened but my motion of "Roll your window down" brought up bad memories for her.

Let me ask you something. And this is for me, too. Was there a possibility of two different Targets you could have gone to?

I ask because my xh would have done the same thing, even though there really is only one target near us. The other one is way over the other side of town that we would have no reason to go to.

so ofcourse I assume she must have plans .... I caught myself thinking OM.

Yea, stop going there..
.

she was in her old green robe ... looked really depressed. I asked if she was ok.

You do that alot. ^^^ I would stop saying it all the time.

then went on to tell me she was lonely, went on to tell me what I did sent her into a depression ... again I told her I honestly just wanted to find out what store we were going to.

Yea, explaining that to her didnt work the first time you did it, right? So, you should just be listening,yea?

She started getting more upset and ended up hanging up.

because in her mind, you were explaining yourself again and she wanted it to be about how she was feeling.

I know I can not fix this .. just hate seeing her like this..

I know you do. But she has to work through this on her own or she stays stuck.

.. but was relieved in a strange way she was lonely ...

Really?

she asked about the holidays saying we had not made a decision... I told her I had in fact decided Thanksgiving already, I wanted her to take S up to her parents because I want him surrounded by family.

So, YOU made the decision about Thanksgiving that he would go to HER family?

.

... she made a comment that there is not a family, I told her its the closest thing to family he is going to get, because just being alone with his father is not what I want for him, family is important and I want him surrounded by as many family members as possible.

Guilt much?

She told me "You never wanted that before" ... I softly told her .. alot of things have changed, I wished her a good day and left.

Cal, you keep telling her about changes. Just live the changes.

[CaliGuy]

Hiya Cal...man, I see you trying so hard...and you are right there...Here's the thing. The changes when they are for you - you dont need to question them. You dont need to wonder or hope. You just be. It is just who you are.

So, about that convo.

LOL ... so do I finally get that raise .. I have been DBusting my A$$ off over here!!! I am just focusing on a sermon that ironically was playing today. .. Galations 6:9 "Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up."

Let me ask you something. And this is for me, too. Was there a possibility of two different Targets you could have gone to?

I ask because my xh would have done the same thing, even though there really is only one target near us. The other one is way over the other side of town that we would have no reason to go to.

Yes, there was the one a couple exits south .. however I know she is very fond of the one more inland and just a bit further. I have been really aware of things she prefers .. hence why I wanted to know which store, certainly was there no thought in my head thinking ... "Hey .. I need to stir chit up here"

Yea, stop going there..

I know .. I know ... I quickly got out of that place in my head ... there is progress but like I read Jack.. he put it as there are still paper cuts and no need to pour pickle juice on em. ... I am not healed fom that sting admittedly.
.

she was in her old green robe ... looked really depressed. I asked if she was ok.
You do that alot. ^^^ I would stop saying it all the time.

Ok .. note4d .. just an observation was all. I will stop asking her if she is Ok ... especially when I know she is not, just thought it was a way to STFU and listen to her, caring like a neighbor ... was my thought process here.

Yea, explaining that to her didnt work the first time you did it, right? So, you should just be listening,yea?

because in her mind, you were explaining yourself again and she wanted it to be about how she was feeling.

Crap ... you are right .. ok ... I need to take out the duct tape out of that cool tool box of mine. ugh .. ok .. live and learn.

I know you do. But she has to work through this on her own or she stays stuck.

Really?

So, YOU made the decision about Thanksgiving that he would go to HER family?

Guilt much?

Cal, you keep telling her about changes. Just live the changes.

Yeah ... I am seeing a trend here, and you have put a spotlight on it. I know how important family is to her, even though right now she has withdrawn a bit from them. Especially her mother from what she told me Saturday, and the "I will talk to her when hell freezes over, or Donkeys fly" remark (I actually asked if a flying Donkey was a poor mans unicorn .. she laughed pretty hard ... guess ya had to be there but it was kinda funny at the time. Anyways ... I am using family and religion as a way to get her to "come back .. and this can not and will not work, I know that .. but its like subconsciously I seem to do this, it really is not my intent.
I was not really into the family (her family) thing .. nor was much of a church person. Now I go twice a week to church .. not for her .. for me, and I would LOVE to have the big celebrations with her and her family only because I know I screwed up and missed out. Too little to late.

I need to talk WAY less. but feel the need to defend myself now .. you are right .. she sees the changes, I need not tell her. Just as if she were to change .. I would not take her word for it either.

Thanks uR ... your perspective is very much appreciated

[uRworthy]

A raise...you kiddin? LOL!

Let me ask you something. Why do you think your w reacted as she did to your putting the window down and wanting to ask which store?

I told you I went through a depression. I cannot tell you how much it bothered me when people would ask, "Are your ok?". I know why you ask, just want you to know why you shouldnt. In my mind, there were two reasons why it bothered me. One was I didnt want to be reminded that I wasnt ok. And two I thought the people who were in my life should know how I felt.

Maybe that wasnt sound thinking, but, I wasnt in a sound mind.

So, when you defend yourself, it implies guilt. When she talks as she does, she just wants to be heard. So, just hear her. You dont need to say much at all.

You know, Cal, what's really important here is that you become who you want to be. Because the truth is no one thing or one conversation is going to make or break this. She has to go through it. She has to do the work. Thats the bottom line.

So, while I try to show you how she may interpret stuff, what matters more is that you see the things about yourself that you say you want to change.

As I said, I know fixers. For me, when my xh tried to do that, often I allowed it to make me feel as if he thought I wasnt capable. Maybe he did think that, maybe he didnt. But thats how it felt.

Oh and yea, duct tape...it comes in all different colors and patterns, so, you can match it to your clothes. Well, I am a girl after all. .

[AJM]

So, when you defend yourself, it implies guilt.

Yes. Yes it does. Almost like it lends weight to an accusation, right?

When she talks as she does, she just wants to be heard. So, just hear her. You dont need to say much at all.

You know, Cal, what's really important here is that you become who you want to be

Can't stress that enough. Know why? Because you have to live with yourself. I've never been depressed, but I've seen it enough in others. I can tell it would not be fun, nor would I want to be reminded of it nor would I want to see somebody I care about hurting. It would just add salt to the wound.

She is testing in some ways, Cali. And as long as you are not YOU and only YOU there will be no passing the test. Ironically, you may have to lose her to be YOU. Given the last several years, that's not something to fear. Being what you think she wants has not worked has it? Her words aren't much use for you. Heck, she may later say she never said any of that. That's how depression works. Fun eh?

Be YOU. The rest will work itself out.

AJ

[TSquared2]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[CaliGuy]

A raise...you kiddin? LOL!

Hech no .. I want that raise !!

Let me ask you something. Why do you think your w reacted as she did to your putting the window down and wanting to ask which store?

She has lately been obsessed with this thought that I treated her "less than" in our relationship .. its one of the rewritten history things she has done. I never have felt that, thought it, much less ever said anything to the effect, I think this is stuff coming out from her child hood, youngest of 5 and one of her complaints about her mom was this very thing .. nothing was good enough, she never felt like she did enough even though she has been successful.

I told you I went through a depression. I cannot tell you how much it bothered me when people would ask, "Are your ok?". I know why you ask, just want you to know why you shouldnt. In my mind, there were two reasons why it bothered me. One was I didnt want to be reminded that I wasnt ok. And two I thought the people who were in my life should know how I felt.

Yeah .. and there is some truth to that , I know she is not well/ sad/ depressed ... hard not to ask why .. but I should just let her talk if she feels like talking and not pry .. I will try to stop doing that.

Maybe that wasnt sound thinking, but, I wasnt in a sound mind.

So, when you defend yourself, it implies guilt. When she talks as she does, she just wants to be heard. So, just hear her. You dont need to say much at all.

You know, Cal, what's really important here is that you become who you want to be. Because the truth is no one thing or one conversation is going to make or break this. She has to go through it. She has to do the work. Thats the bottom line.

Yeah and that has been what I have been focused on .. just got caught up in her spin cycle a bit ... forgetting I need to be the rock, do my thing .. which I have been doing for the most part .. ... looking at it I feel like she temp checks me when I get to a certain detach point just to make sure she still has me ... hard to explain

So, while I try to show you how she may interpret stuff, what matters more is that you see the things about yourself that you say you want to change.

As I said, I know fixers. For me, when my xh tried to do that, often I allowed it to make me feel as if he thought I wasnt capable. Maybe he did think that, maybe he didnt. But thats how it felt.

Oh and yea, duct tape...it comes in all different colors and patterns, so, you can match it to your clothes. Well, I am a girl after all. .

Yeah ... STFU , listen .. dont fix .. I had the thought today I need to let her go, let her cry it out, work it out .. whatever she needs to do to get through this and even then not sure if there will ever be a M left to fix, I have accepted that .. just need to pull the trigger and let her do this.