Time for a new Thread, Same title as I have come to realize my MLC Zombie is still in the tunnels, aimlessly wandering looking for doorways that lead out.
So the tail end of the last thread have had a good deal of action, seemingly fules from the Halloween night we exchanged some words ... not in the good way.
At this moment, I have no Intel mind you .. gut feel ..OM is still in the picture but Tuesday she admitted (In a depressed stage) that she felt an addiction, was not sure if God or I would ever forgive her. The guilt she feels is tremedous but in the course of a day this changes to almost entitlement ... again .. nothing shocks me much anymore with the MLC script she adds to and follows.
So the past few days S has been acting up, he was upset with W over her taking his 20 bucks (I have no idea what really happened here, who do you believe a 7 year old or the MLC? I sadly am siding with the 7 year old). He also was upset as in her depressed stage early this week she asked if she could keep him on one of my nights so she was not alone (I had no problem with this .. however S was not excited about the idea). I picked up S yesterday after school, we had a long talk about what was bothering him, he told me the day started out bad with W taking the $$, then some things happened at school and he got into trouble 3 times (Kid never gets in trouble), then I had picked him up and he was looking forward to staying with me but had to go with his mom, did not tell her about his day and things were difficult... she yelled at him and threatened to spank him making him cry. Then he got out of the shower and overheard her talking with someone on the phone (Was not me) and she said "He will not listen to me" .. .he asked who she was talking to and she lied and told him it was just the iPad.
So that was the day he had .. I dropped him off this morning with a few things in mind .. knowing she would confront me about it ... and realizing how touchy this situation is .. So I gave S a big hug (Me being the rock and the one he can trust and count on ... huge in my book) I tell him that his bad day is behind him, keep God in his heart and make today the best day possible. W asks me is he is ok, hoping to escape with a yes confirm he is good. Then she asked me what happened ... ok .. Deep breath. I told her what was going on ... I was calm, and explained how his day started, I said I don't know what the deal is with the 20 bucks but that started it. She replied she did not want him to be spoiled .. I agreed and said that's was just the start. I told her that the relationship between her and S has been strained ... that he does not trust her because she has lied to him, and they have some serious trust issues to sort out. She asked for examples and I gave her a few .. (Without bringing up the OM lies .. very hard as I WANTED to but knew it would not help.) I told her he overheard her talking to someone on the phone, I calmly but sternly told her I would hope if there is something concerning our son she is having trouble with that I would be the first to be called/involved ... I do not feel comfortable with anyone but her and I parenting our child. (OM implied here but not mentioned) ... she was kind of reeling, said she could not recall who she was talking to .. that she does ask Mary for advice .. I validated saying .. told her that's fine, she has a boy the same age and I am sure she could be a useful resource in many cases, but no one knows S better than me, and he shares his feelings with me so I know what is going on with him ... no one else does, and let it go as I felt the core message was received. She admitted its devastating to know your own S does not trust you ... I borrowed a concept I read that Starsky posted from RobX and told her "trust is hard to regain when its lost, you have to be consistent .. and with everything you are going through I am sure its hard to be that way" More than once lately she has told me that I should take him .. honestly its getting hard to say no to that, I want to protect S from her, while she goes through this and ends up becoming whatever it is awaits her.
She wants to discuss our tax mess on Saturday, I told her I was open to it but needed to work, then she brought up the football game I wanted to take S to Saturday, I had invited her ... turn out she was looking forward to this. I told her she was still more than welcome to go .. she asked how much $$ (She must be really struggling here with funds ... guessing the MLC lifestyle has caught up with her) So I smiled and told her its my treat.
So ^^^^ That is what is happening at the moment ... however I backslid personally .. not that she seen, Tuesday I was there for her, she was down, I was/am happy its me she calls out for when she needs comforting. I know I can not fix her or heal her depression .. but its ME she calls .. not OM. But I do feel used, its like she gets better and like this morning .. all business, that little glimpse of the girl I love is back to the Zombie. Saturday confused me .. figured we would go back to separate lives ... so I will use this chance to be PMA, have fun .. a chance to showcase the new me ... have not had that chance in a month or so. She told me Tuesday she was confused and does not know what she wants. Maybe I see that as a glimmer of hope.
Goals to focus on for me:
1.Listen .. STFU and Listen 2.No Arguing, No Matter What 3.Establish a safe place, Smooth Paved, Gain her Trust....slowly
Would you feel that way if she was going through chemo-therapy?
Recovering from a debilitating accident?
Recovering from drug addiction?
What's the difference?
Can you re-frame it as:
"I am supporting and helping a loved one in a crisis, I may never be re-paid for my time and effort, however, it is the man/human I choose to be."
Hm?
You are absolutely right .. I know you are. Its something I know I am not dealing with correctly.... confirming I am not as detached as I would like to be. I think the feeling used part comes from my fear ... the OM .. I feel like I patch her up and she is all better and goes back to him, its something I have to stop thinking about, stop that mindset ... I like your perspective better .. I will adopt those words when I feel this way.
On the positive .. she has done this often and usually I have backslid and said something to her about it .. this time I have not, I tucked it in .. faked it ... progress .. baby steps.
I had to get a 2x4 from a vet on that feeling, too, Cali.
Now about the fear...OM...
What do you fear?
That he's better in bed?
Richer?
More fun?
Better "equipment"?
Hm?
Well according to a couple MLC spew sessions .. he is better in bed and the "equipment is better ... according to her. And yeah .. that is a fear .. and deep down its the thing I think has her hooked on him, again .. my fears and things I am dealing with ... but if I am not honest here with you guys what purpose will that serve me. He very well could be more fun /richer .. I could care less about that.
I think what has brought back these fears and feelings was Last Sunday's talk .. she confessed that when we were dating 20+ years ago, I was overseas (Persian Gulf War) ... she Dear John'd me ... and slept with someone else. We were each others first, I lived my entire life thinking we had only been with each other. And Bamm ... she told me she thinks this is where she got the STD and not till now (Last March) did it flare up (It was assumed OM gave her the "gift"). The other item is .. we had gone 3+ years without sex (Due to what was a "medical condition" according to her)...then .. BD and Separation .. 3 months later she has sex with OM. And of course its amazing. Hard for me to handle honestly.
So yeah .. I have some damage that I have been working on, things I need to deal with .. was doing alot better and then find out she kept a lie/secret for 20+ years I wonder what other lies, what other secrets .. do I even know this person at all?
-MLC Spew, yeah, my stbxw knew right where to stick the knife. So looking back to your "marital relations" before the "medical" condition...what is the reality there?
When I looked back, the reality was that it was good, very good.
Things I could have done better? Yup. And I went on a tear learning everything I could, for reconciliation or new woman.
You have control there, Cali, you CAN do something useful with this time in that dept.
-Equipment? Nothing you can do there, we all got what nature gave us. BUT.... see up there ^^^^ to use it better, and learn what women want, in and out of the bedroom.
Quote:
and deep down its the thing I think has her hooked on him, again
Mind reading
More likely? She is addicted to the momentary escape from her depression, etc. My stbxw said as much about her OMs this spring/summer. I posted it on my thread.
Quote:
The other item is .. we had gone 3+ years without sex (Due to what was a "medical condition" according to her)...then .. BD and Separation .. 3 months later she has sex with OM. And of course its amazing. Hard for me to handle honestly.
As someone who went 3 years without, I can't imagine how it could NOT be "amazing"...wouldn't it be for you right now???
Think about it.
Quote:
We were each others first, I lived my entire life thinking we had only been with each other. And Bamm ... she told me she thinks this is where she got the STD
I know that stings, A LOT.
Your illusion is destroyed, that is always difficult. The life you thought you had, well, wasn't.
Does that take away the REALITY of your M? All those years?
Quote:
So yeah .. I have some damage that I have been working on, things I need to deal with .. was doing alot better and then find out she kept a lie/secret for 20+ years I wonder what other lies, what other secrets .. do I even know this person at all?
You have no secrets? Never lied? Even "little white ones"?
Idk about you, but I couldn't cast that stone...
Keep digging...
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
-MLC Spew, yeah, my stbxw knew right where to stick the knife. So looking back to your "marital relations" before the "medical" condition...what is the reality there?
When I looked back, the reality was that it was good, very good.
Things I could have done better? Yup. And I went on a tear learning everything I could, for reconciliation or new woman.
You have control there, Cali, you CAN do something useful with this time in that dept.
-Equipment? Nothing you can do there, we all got what nature gave us. BUT.... see up there ^^^^ to use it better, and learn what women want, in and out of the bedroom.
Sex was always one of our hot topic buttons, I was HD and she was more LD, even dating was an issue, one she promised would be better once married as she had the Catholic guilt thing .... truth is looking at that. I was like a dog always chasing her, it was not romantic .. nor would I say we did alot of "making love" a regret I have now after alot of the soul searching I have done in the past year. So yeah .. I have been looking at that issue and my contributions however at the moment not much I can do with that ... but I get excactly where you are coming from.
Mind reading
More likely? She is addicted to the momentary escape from her depression, etc. My stbxw said as much about her OMs this spring/summer. I posted it on my thread.
Quote:
As someone who went 3 years without, I can't imagine how it could NOT be "amazing"...wouldn't it be for you right now???
Think about it.
Point taken ... and you are right .. I do think she has re-written that part of our history too ... we did enjoy good sex at one point.
Quote:
I know that stings, A LOT.
Your illusion is destroyed, that is always difficult. The life you thought you had, well, wasn't.
Does that take away the REALITY of your M? All those years?
No it doesn't .. and like I said .. I know I have to stop the stinkin-thinkin ... and for the most part I do a good job at that ... last night was a rough night with the anxiety of knowing I would have to discuss things with W this morning .. but as I said .. it went without an argument so I will take that as a good positive.
Quote:
You have no secrets? Never lied? Even "little white ones"?
Idk about you, but I couldn't cast that stone...
Keep digging...
Oh I am no saint .. I have realized that, and I said during my prayer walk yesterday if I was a good man/father/husband she might have felt a bit more safe to come to me .. however I do feel this MLC would have happened ... just not sure to this degree.
Leads to a question .. are there MLC degree's ... some worse than others .. maybe things trigger them into more craziness than ones who feel safe at home with the spouse.
I even went on to let myself be humored by envisioning what kind of train wreck would happen if two married people hit MLC at the same time .... warm up that popcorn!!
TSquared
I would like to thank you, the things you ask, the deep questions like above .. these are things I have to deal with .. and doing this, looking at them and confronting them is how I grow from this. I really appreciate your help .. and others who chime in ... I am and will be forever grateful regardless of my marital status as you are saving ME .. I know I will stand tall and know I have done all I can. I may be wrong but I do view what W is going through as a mental illness ... she has always had bouts with depression, I was not always there, did not always listen, was not always dealing with it properly .. maybe in a way this is my way/chance to correct that. Or maybe I am just as crazy, who knows. I recall a fight we had about 5 years ago .. she had threatened to leave me, in a rage I told her "There is the door, you find any guy who can put up with your chit I will shake his hand" ... She actually laughed .. as did I , she admitted she was not easy, and I told her I wouldn't want her any other way ... funny how I actually miss those fights .. the ones where you make up after.
I may be wrong but I do view what W is going through as a mental illness ... she has always had bouts with depression, I was not always there, did not always listen, was not always dealing with it properly .. maybe in a way this is my way/chance to correct that. Or maybe I am just as crazy, who knows.
Personally, and as my stbx had similar, I agree on the mental illness view.
And you are not crazy...NOT trying, NOT learning, NOT growing, staying stuck, becoming bitter???
That is crazy... imo...
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
Oh I am no saint .. I have realized that, and I said during my prayer walk yesterday if I was a good man/father/husband she might have felt a bit more safe to come to me .. however I do feel this MLC would have happened ... just not sure to this degree.
Leads to a question .. are there MLC degree's ... some worse than others .. maybe things trigger them into more craziness than ones who feel safe at home with the spouse.
As long as you just speculate on that for fun and giggles only... imo, there is no way to tell if it would have been worse, better, or the same, if you had done, X, Y or Z.
The useful part of that speculation is to identify what about YOU you want to fix in the here and now. And it sounds like you are... just don't stay there too long...
Do me a favor?
Go over to Shining's threads, there's a little exercise there that I asked her to do, one that really helped me.
Oh I am no saint .. I have realized that, and I said during my prayer walk yesterday if I was a good man/father/husband she might have felt a bit more safe to come to me .. however I do feel this MLC would have happened ... just not sure to this degree.
Leads to a question .. are there MLC degree's ... some worse than others .. maybe things trigger them into more craziness than ones who feel safe at home with the spouse.
As long as you just speculate on that for fun and giggles only... imo, there is no way to tell if it would have been worse, better, or the same, if you had done, X, Y or Z.
The useful part of that speculation is to identify what about YOU you want to fix in the here and now. And it sounds like you are... just don't stay there too long...
Do me a favor?
Go over to Shining's threads, there's a little exercise there that I asked her to do, one that really helped me.
