Gogofo - no longer piecing 2nd BD

[sandi2]

I really wish you would correct the dates in your signature line. You obviously have the wrong year, at least, for part of it.

I am confused. Are you separated or living together?

[gogofo]

Sandi, we are separated again. We were doing half the week with me staying at her place, half the week alone. But now I am back to separate houses.

I went to pick up the kids this morning and we ended up spending the morning together. I helped get the kids ready and some things around the house for her. She made me a coffee and we talked a little. I didn't hang around in her area or seek approval, she kept engaging me. It was a pleasant morning. We took the kids for lunch and she suggested having dinner tonight.

[Elsa]

Honestly, it sounds to me like she isn't ready to be done, but that you may end up pushing her away. Just be patient and see where this all leads.

[gogofo]

Wait, why are you in bed with her?

After the last separation we were splitting time with me staying the night and not staying the night. Because of her schedule and working late it made it easier and allowed us to be together some of the week and have her not feel overwhelmed by me being in her house all the time. It also allow me time to work on my house.

What do you think quality time means to her?

Quality time for her means planning something that takes thought. Date nights, movies, dinners together at home or out. Fires in the back yard, cuddling and talking with wine. Things like that.

I'd stay away from telling her anything about what she needs to do. You may be 100% right but you're the last person she wants to hear that from. Remember you're the one who didn't change for all those years and now you're hinting that she needs to. Minefield.

This I understand. It would be the equivalent of telling her that she is insane and I do not have any problems.

Has she asked for help from you? Proceed with extreme caution.

This is a grey area. I am not sure if she is asking for help or not. Sometimes I feel she is, and then I make a suggestion, then she says things are only on my terms. If I don't make a suggestion then she feels things are not changing or progressing. At least that is the feeling I get from her.

Crystal ball stuff. She doesn't even know what she needs.

Agreed, I need to stop my Mr. Fix-it routine with this (gonna be hard to do).

Just say, I have these tickets, would you like to go with me? If she says no, drop it.

I like that, simple and to the point.

You don't know she would have an excellent time. You hope she would.

Yes, definitely more accurate.

It seems you want to make this all better by sheer force of will. It won't happen, she has to come to it on her own and that's only by your consistent actions.

I have been and will continue to do consistent actions. If I can keep from pressuring her, then I could string together multiple weeks of consistent actions without heart ache, at least I hope it would go that way.

I try not to mind read about anyone but being a woman I could guess that she made her mind it was over because she for years has been dealing with "everything being your way." When she finally gathered the courage to make her break, you decided to change and now she's filled with all these conflicting emotions. She's afraid to open her heart to you because this might be a ploy just to get the marriage, not necessarily Her, back. Or perhaps a version of this has played out in your past and she is leary.

I think you are spot on with that. Also she felt I didn't care or even try in our M before. Now that it seems to be done she feels that I am reactionary and just trying to save it.

Mind reading here: I think the whole 80/20 rule is also coming into effect here. (80% of the issue being from things in your past, 20% from being in the current situation). Her father and mother would have big fights yearly with her mom leaving sometimes. The only time her mother ever got flowers, etc was when her father f'd up. This became an issue in our M. When she would ask for something I would try to find the "magic" time to do it for her. The day after did not work because she felt it was reactionary (for good reason). A week after it was still tender. Two weeks after and it was too late, etc. I would get frustrated and give up because if she mentioned something she needed or wanted in our M and then I provided it, it seemed to always have a negative connotation to it. She would not see that I was doing it because 1 she wanted it and 2 I wanted to lovingly provide it to her.

Go, you have to figure out who you want to be, and be that without the carrot on the stick being your W returning to the M. Who do you want to be? What is your personal mission statement? What are your values? What is really important to you and how do you show that? Let those things be your guide and maybe your W will see that you're a man worth taking a chance with.

I have been thinking a lot about these questions for the past year. The basic answer is I want to be someone who lets those he cares about know it, through words and actions. This applies to W, kids, moms, dads, g-pa, g-ma, friends, etc. I was never an emotionally open person before and I like the way it feels now.

My family comes first, work is no longer my top priority.

I will find happiness in my life outside of work success, which was a big issue and I have been working on for quite some time. I think I have made big progress here. Thanks Shawn Achor.

I also want to be a selfless giver. I have always taken a back seat in relationships and let others do the planning. Friends, family, wife, mom, all of them took the reigns and I was used to it. Reviewing my R with these people in this light makes me understand how they might feel I don't care about them. No more waiting for people to call or contact me or plan things. I have an opinion and the options to make things happen, and I like it.

[theoden]

Gogofo,

Sorry you are here. Hope this all works out for you. Here are my observations:

1. Your wife isn't quite done with you. It can go either way, at any moment. It will take several months (I'd guess at least 6) of consistent action on her part indicating that she's really in the marriage for you to even be able to breathe easily. Right now she's expecting you to "wow" her without pressuring her.

2. You are desperate to win your wife back and convince her to stop the divorce. Anyone can smell the fear in your posts. Your wife can probably sense it in your voice and texts. The pressure is smothering her. I wish I could just tell you to stop it. It's not so easy. That's why divorce-busting is so hard. You have to freakin' analyze every text and communication to try and come across as not needy and loving yet somewhat detached. Good luck with that. Not so easy.

3. I can also tell you that personal change is EXTREMELY hard. What or who exactly are you supposed to become to win your wife back? There's the "new person" you are suppose to become and all that GAL activity that is supposed to be for you and not your wife. (You see you had and "epiphany" and want to completely self-actualize. It's not that you are changing to get your wife to notice -- cough, cough) On the other hand there are things your wife wants you to show her not TELL her, that will convince her the relationship will be new and better. These, I presume, are things you weren't doing before and they are things you will continue to do regularly and flawlessly for the rest of your marriage in order to keep her happy. So, become a new person and live the rest of your life on probation. Tall order, I think. It's not that people can't change. It's not that miracles aren't possible. It's just that the stakes are so high and the real motivation is a reaction to your wife's marital unhappiness. If you get back together, the pressure that caused the "changes" you made will be lessened. And there's a strong possibility your behavior will slip back. If that's the case, you are in for a second cycle of this, and trust me, she won't be so friendly when she files the divorce papers the second time around.

4. From personal experience, personal change was a unicorn that was very hard to catch.. I read and tried so many things to "find myself", get centered, get strong so that I would be the kind of person that would re-attract my wife. What I didn't really look at what the possibility that my wife seriously contributed to our marital problems, too, and that taking on all the responsibility (we don't say we are, but to be honest, we tend to) for the situation is unhealthy. It prevents us from actually having a normal sense of outrage, self-worth and healthy boundaries. We are always screening our conversation and self-editing to the point that we lose a sense of who we are. A spineless milquetoast is not attractive to a WAW.

5. Your wife filed for divorce. Wake up. Stop for a moment and assume you are getting divorced. If this were to happen, what do YOU want, and what's best for your kids? Finances and custody. Think about it. Don't be in denial and face your divorce like a deer staring into the headlights of an oncoming Mack truck. Go speak to a lawyer. Don't try and talk her out of the divorce (it's unattractive and pressuring), but don't, for God's sake, just roll over (also unattractive). Stand up. State what you want. If it's coming to a divorce, let her know what YOU want.

6. You are too desperate and needy at this point to navigate a text-by-text analysis of your communications with your wife. Practice the Last Resort Technique. It will slowly help you regain your dignity. It will make her wonder about you. Be mysterious.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/blog/how-to-prevent-a-divorce-the-last-resort-technique/

7. Stop and ask yourself, "Do I deserve to be treated this way?" Having your heart broken, treated like a yo-yo husband, your wife making plans and breaking them at will, her constant playing hot and cold with you. This isn't acceptable. You are coddling her and rewarding her with your constant availability and love. Step back. A little sense of self and perspective might help.

8. If you have to do some GAL activity try something mind-expanding, adventurous and crazy. Rock or mountain climbing, boxing, Karate, Kick-Boxing. Thy help you practice one-mind (extreme focus), but they also build inner strength, confidence and a kick-ass persona.

Best of luck.

--Theoden

[gogofo]

Thanks Theoden, a lot to digest in your post. I have started to read Hold Onto Your N.U.T.s. and will be trying to figure out some of the things I will not waver on. I do need to figure things out and stop coddling her. Way easier said than done.

Thanks for the input.

[theoden]

Gogofo,

Yes...easier said than done.

2 take-aways from my post:

1. See a lawyer. Tomorrow.

2. Last resort technique.

[labug]

Theoden gives you some good info. Have you seen a L?

My questions about who you want to be (and notice I didn't tack on ...to bring your W back), thanks for answering.

Be that person.

With everyone, even when you don't want to be that person. Your W will either be re-attracted to you...or she won't but you're left with the prize, being the man you want to be.

That's where the rubber meets the road.

[theoden]

Gogofo,

I reiterate:

1. Go see a lawyer

2. Implement the Last Resort Technique.

Those are 2 ways not to coddle your wife. It will show her you are not afraid or desperate and that you actually have a spine. Those are both 180's by the way.

Stop trying to work on the relationship and discuss it.

When she decides to stop the divorce train and is ready to work on the relationship I think you should live apart for, perhaps 6 months, start dating, and THEN, perhaps speak of reconciliation.

She's seems too mercurial at the moment to really bank on any decision she makes for more than a couple of weeks.

[gogofo]

Theoden

I have not seen a lawyer yet for two reasons. The first is it makes me feel uncomfortable, the second is my best friend has an attorney. If or when I get served I will be contacting him immediately with the terms. He is aware that the W and I are having marital issues.

I will by going with the LRT, or a modified version of it. The W and I had a long talk last night and I will update when I get more time.

The short of it is she wants to work on us again. She did not feel good about filing. She said she wants to work on us. We are setting boundaries and dealing with some issues to make being together easier. Basically she needs to take the reigns more and I need to quit pushing.

More later...