Gogofo - no longer piecing 2nd BD

[MCS]

I understand what you are going through. I thought we were piecing in my sitch, but I think it was me pressuring her when I confront her about OM. It went on a couple days and then her polar opposite views of either wanting to piece or not got me to my wits end in no time flat. Definitely not healthy for me.

[gogofo]

You are blessed that she even wants to be around you. Most women in her shoes would be ticked at you pushing all the time, and most who file wouldn't still enjoy spending time with the LBH.

Men often push so hard to stop the D b/c they see it as the end, forever. Maybe it would help you if you stopped looking at it that way. (Again, don't tell her what I am telling you.). You may be able to move on, or you may be able to find your way back to each other. But for gosh sakes stop pushing her.

The thing about the pushing is I felt pressure from her in working on the M. She was getting frustrated that we were not farther along with our R. She was sick of the limbo and wanted to see progress. I wasn't aware or conscience enough to notice that I was pushing the pace. It is obvious now, especially when she said she enjoys our time together but working on us is painful and makes her angry. I was working from a fearful or scared emotion instead of calming down and using DB techniques.

[Barrybran]

I get where you're coming from, gogofo. My wife recently told me that she doesn't see a future for us because things haven't changed in a positive way for a year. At the end of the day, we have a wonderful resource here that our partners don't have. We have information, literature, positive, pro-marriage people who support our efforts and constructively criticise our errors... our partners, for the most part, are likely relying on ill-informed people with varying attitudes towards marriage and relationships.

Hang in there. It's not much fun but you've made progress before and I'm sure you will make progress again. Just gotta be patient and keep being the new-and-improved you.

[gogofo]

So the W and I had a text message session late tonight. I will post it below for comments and analysis and 2x4s as needed.

I was trying to validate and not push or pursue, but it seemed like she wanted me to offer solutions, kind of. Let me have it.

W: I can't understand why I wasn't worth the effort before?
M: You were always worth the effort, I know it didn't feel that was before.

W: I'm just so sad and angry. The kids, anniversary, holidays everything hurts
M: I know that this month holds a lot of pain and difficult memories for you. I am sad that you are feeling this way.

W: I don't know how to feel better
M: I can see how all of this could have you (feeling) that way

W: Never mind. I need to go to sleep. I don't want you just to agree with everything I say. I'm an idiot
M: I am not just agreeing. I just don't know what to do either. I am concerned about how you feel, but my last idea pushed us too fast. I feel the exercises we tried pushed us and brought up painful memories. It did the opposite of what I thought it would do for us and our relationship. We were doing good when we were setting out own pace.

W: I feel like everything is always on your terms. Maybe that's because I don't make any
M: I am not sure what you mean?

W: I don't know. That exercise was awful. I looked through it and couldn't see getting through it. It shouldn't be this hard
M: When doing day two I felt awful about myself

W: I don't want us to feel awful. I want to be happy someday. For long periods of time, not for moments.
M: I want the same thing, I feel we both want a lot of the same things. I feel we do well when just being in the moment and doing us.

W: We have no time for moments. I want you to convince me that things can be different instead of saying it and you want me to hug you and kiss you and tell you it's going to be alright and at the end of the day neither of us gets what we want
M: I am focused on changing myself and bringing that person to our relationship. I know that I also need to build affection between us before the hugs and kisses. Among other things I have learned about myself and changing. I know convincing comes from showing change for sustained time and it also builds trust. But I also know these are just words right now.

[gogofo]

So there it is. I feel like she wants suggestions on how to come together and then she says that she feels everything is on my terms. It feels contradicting to me.

I am open to any suggestions as to what to do. When I mentioned MC before she did not seem to keen on it. I know she feels that she does not have the time to put in for it either.

I still have concert tickets for this coming Wednesday and I think we would have fun going, but I do not know if this would be too pushy.

I am confused and torn about finding the balance of suggesting ways to work on us and putting pressure on her. She seems to want help some how or from somewhere, but I don't know how or what to do right now.

I know us just being together with each other has done us well in the past and I would like to keep that up and see us slowly working and coming together. I just need to watch my pace. The difficult part right now is she seems to not have a pace or not know what her pace is.

Suggestions?

[labug]

Tell her you have the tickets and that you'd love to go together.

I think she's scared to death of being hurt again. She's going to have to do some work on her end but that's hers to do...or not. She's gonna have to weather same difficult feelings. Relationships are full of difficult feelings.

Validating can be tricky cause it can do just what it did to her, p!ss her off. Dial that back.

Next time ask her what it would e to convince her things will be different. Specifics. What's her LL, if you know? It's pretty clear she needs you to decrease the physical touch for now.

Here's the thing,you can only work on you and show her that a new R with you would be different. You can't fix her.

[gogofo]

Thanks Bug.

I have dialed back the physical touch. We haven't kissed on the lips in a month. Held hands maybe twice. Hugged maybe once a visit. Cuddle two or three times in bed. I completely understand the need to back off there.

Her LLs are quality time, acts of service, and receiving gifts; mine are the opposite, physical touch and words of encouragement. Ha!

I have slowly been saying that only she can work on herself, just not flat out in those words. I told her months ago that she needs to forgive me and that is something I cannot help her with. I did get a good recommendation for a forgiveness book from my coach, I may suggest that to her.

My feeling is she needs to feel good about where we are with our M for more than a week or two. A full month would maybe help her see that the change is something she can believe in.

I will have to find the right words and time to ask what convincing would look like to her.

Would inviting her to go to the concert be pursuing or pressuring? I know every situation is different. I know we would have an excellent time, I got the tickets 6 months ago and the concert is on our calendars. Maybe 're-extending the invitation needs to be done.

[sandi2]

W: I can't understand why I wasn't worth the effort before?
M: You were always worth the effort, I know it didn't feel that was before.

I think this would have been a good place for you to take ownership (unless you have already done this repeatedly). "You were always worth the effort. I was the one who failed there. I can't go back and redo it. I wish I could."

W: I don't know how to feel better
M: I can see how all of this could have you (feeling) that way

Do you think she is talking about herself in general, or feel better about the relationship? If it is her feelings in general......that seems terribly weak to me. Why wouldn't she reach out somewhere, to someone (professional) to deal with her anger?

If she keeps going back to that answer of she just doesn't know how to feel better, maybe you could agree with her and say, "I suppose you don't" and see how she reacts to it. There's a possibility she wants you to argue and tell her how she can feel better. But it sounds more like a weak response instead of a solid reason. It takes no work/effort, she doesn't have to "think" by saying she doesn't know how.

The point is, she is responsible for her own happiness. When I finally accepted that fact, it took a lot off my H and was placed squarely on my shoulders. Maybe you need to stop trying to make her happy. Stop trying to fix her. Stop trying to be her "everything". She has to want to be happy enough to do something about it. Happiness seldoms runs after us and pounces on us. At the present time, her obsession over the anger is greater than her desire to feel better. That is her decision. As long as you are available to be her target (or life coach), when will she take charge of her own emotions?

W: Never mind. I need to go to sleep. I don't want you just to agree with everything I say. I'm an idiot

Are you sure she didn't say she was no idiot? B/c a W can tell when her H is just agreeing with her, but doesn't really believe it. Maybe she was saying she was an idiot for listening, but that's mind reading.

W: I feel like everything is always on your terms. Maybe that's because I don't make any

She is at least recognizing she doesn't offer any. She doesn't like it that it all seems on your terms, but she's angry that she doesn't use her voice.

W: We have no time for moments. I want you to convince me that things can be different instead of saying it and

Well.......there it is. She thinks you are all talk and no action.

Like many LBH'S, you do want to talk a lot. Many times your answers are way too long b/c you are still trying to convince her to give you another chance. Many times the LBH will almost sound self-righteous in his attempts to get his message across that he is really working on himself to change. You try to convince her through talk that it will be different. She is sick of talk. She doesn't want to talk, either. Which, is common for a WAW not to want to rehash their problems.......WHEN they are suppose to be piecing. Many want to start over without fixing what is broken.

Stop trying to win her back. By stopping, you will end your smothering and pressure on her. Your conversation will change. You are totally obsessed of winning her back before she serves you with D papers. I think it is doing yourself harm.

[gogofo]

The all talk no action comment from her caught me off guard. If she really means it then she has been ignoring how she has told me that things seem different now.

I can understand that she would feel unconvinced when she is upset because her emotions have her feelings in the dumps. She may be thinking that if the changes were consistent she would not be feeling angry and sad.

She has told me on numerous occasions that things were different and nice and then came the caveat that it makes her upset when the changes are there because why could they not have been there before.

Sandi, do you think asking her to the concert would be pressuring her?

[labug]

Thanks Bug.

I have dialed back the physical touch. We haven't kissed on the lips in a month. Held hands maybe twice. Hugged maybe once a visit. Cuddle two or three times in bed. I completely understand the need to back off there.

Wait, why are you in bed with her?

Her LLs are quality time, acts of service, and receiving gifts; mine are the opposite, physical touch and words of encouragement. Ha!

I'ts common for partners to have th opposite in LLs.

What do you think quality time means to her? My H and I have very different views on QT. For me it's going to dinner or a movie, short getaways. For him it could be sitting at home, watching TV. If your version of QT and hers are completely different, that just rubs salt in the wounds.

I have slowly been saying that only she can work on herself, just not flat out in those words.

I'd stay away from telling her anything about what she needs to do. You may be 100% right but you're the last person she wants to hear that from. Remember you're the one who didn't change for all those years and now you're hinting that she needs to. Minefield.

I told her months ago that she needs to forgive me and that is something I cannot help her with. I did get a good recommendation for a forgiveness book from my coach, I may suggest that to her.

Has she asked for help from you? Proceed with extreme caution.

My feeling is she needs to feel good about where we are with our M for more than a week or two. A full month would maybe help her see that the change is something she can believe in.

Crystal ball stuff. She doesn't even know what she needs.

I will have to find the right words and time to ask what convincing would look like to her.

I'd wati for her to bring it up again.

Would inviting her to go to the concert be pursuing or pressuring?

Just say, I have these tickets, would you like to go with me? If she says no, drop it.

I know we would have an excellent time, I got the tickets 6 months ago and the concert is on our calendars. Maybe 're-extending the invitation needs to be done.

You don't know she would have an excellent time. You hope she would.

It seems you want to make this all better by sheer force of will. It won't happen, she has to come to it on her own and that's only by your consistent actions.

I try not to mind read about anyone but being a woman I could guess that she made her mind it was over because she for years has been dealing with "everything being your way." When she finally gathered the courage to make her break, you decided to change and now she's filled with all these conflicting emotions. She's afraid to open her heart to you because this might be a ploy just to get the marriage, not necessarily Her, back. Or perhaps a version of this has played out in your past and she is leary.

Go, you have to figure out who you want to be, and be that without the carrot on the stick being your W returning to the M.

Who do you want to be? What is your personal mission statement? What are your values? What is really important to you and how do you show that?

Let those things be your guide and maybe your W will see that you're a man worth taking a chance with.